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Dear DP Members: I am a student doing Research on Barry Goldwater Sr. Help?

Hello DP! I am a high school student right now researching on the impact of Barry Goldwater Sr., his nomination in 1964 and how it changed the Republican Party ideologically.

Now, after following the 2012 Ron Paul campaign, I have heard messages of him being comparable to Barry Goldwater. Of course, Ron Paul, being my hero, led me to choose Barry Goldwater as something to research on, his impact on American history would've made an interesting topic, I thought.

So the topic at hand is: Did Barry Goldwater's nomination change the Republican Party ideologically?

I found one good link at the following:
http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2005/12/barry-go...

The article from Heritage Foundation gave me a few interesting points: The Republican party, before Barry's nomination, was apparently most an Eastern Party, with men like Nelson Rockefeller(I know some of you have things against that family, but please provide backup if you do) being close to nominated, and the general reaction of Barry Goldwater's nomination was one of shock.

Now, I have to analyze my claim in several ways, do you DP'ers have any suggestions for me? What direction should I take in researching? What sources should I use? Are there any good databases, such as Historians, books, etc that you could recommend me to use? Because as far as JSTOR goes, I found a few articles, but I couldn't really sort them out...

Keep in mind I have to analyze the change on THE PARTY and Goldwater's nominations changed it. Any help would be welcome!



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This made me a Goldwater fan...

How Goldwater was characterized

In your heart you know he is right was his campaign slogan

The dems said, in your heart you know he is nuts.

He like Reagan later was portrayed as a trigger happy war monger.

Gold water said extremism in the pursuit of liberty is no vice

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reagan's speech at the convention also

provides some ideological background to the "new" republican party.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt1fYSAChxs

The rift between east coast and the rest of the party goes back to the days of Mr Republican Robert Taft which is worth researching too.

Keep in mind George HW Bush, Reagan's VP was an east coast republican

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Did you read the book

entitled, "The Conscience of a Conservative?"

Here's a link to a sample of the audio version:

http://www.audible.com/pd/Nonfiction/The-Conscience-of-a-Con...

Huh... should I?

Never read the book, ATM I am more looking for historical analysises.

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

IMO

You're going to have to understand who Barry Goldwater was before you understand whether the books you read on historical analysis are accurate.

Alright

Seeing how it cost almost nothing on Kindle, I will buy it and read it.

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

agree it's the blue print for modern conservatism

and it's a short read- essential to understanding the ideological divide.
Also goldwater as a senator was more of a big government guy than the guy who authored Conscience of a Conservative.

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Look into Karl Hess

Examples:

http://blog.fair-use.org/2012/08/09/karl-hess-an-open-letter...

http://www.amazon.com/Mostly-Edge-Autobiography-Karl-Hess/dp...

"As a speechwriter for Barry Goldwater, Hess explored ideology and politics and attracted some public interest."

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Hess

Joe

I am adding him to my list

That is interesting and long of a letter for sure... Perhaps Barry Goldwater had appeased to racists, which is why GOP is now associated with Racism these days.

At any case, I have another book that may suggeset that this was the case:
http://www.amazon.com/Before-Storm-Goldwater-Unmaking-Consen...

I guess I got a bit of reading to d :p

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Racist?

Are you associating Karl Hess with racism?

Joe

In his letter

I read up some racial issue... I probably misinterpreted what was said in the content, but he's a good source of analyzing Goldwater, I suppose.

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Who writes the lies?

If a modern so called "politician" has a focus group, marketing company, write the speeches for the "politician," then that is a measure of the "politician," and if someone like Karl Hess is employed to write speeches for Goldwater then that is a measure of Goldwater.

I do not think, for example, that someone hiring someone like Karl Hess to write speeches is a puppet for some marketing company, or corporate entity subsidized by government corruption. So, in my opinion, the measure of Goldwater, by that measure, is the ever elusive honest politician, the rare exceptions, like Ron Paul, Ross Perot, and many of the Libertarian versions of so called politician.

I ran for Congress in 1996, on the ballot as a Libertarian Candidate, I wrote my speeches as I spoke. No focus group. No corporate funding funneled through nebulous subsidy. I would have benefited greatly with the help of someone like Karl Hess.

I don't know much about Goldwater, other than the Karl Hess connection.

Joe

Rent the movie Mr.

Rent the movie Mr. Conservative. It's a great documentary on Goldwater.

Will do so

though any reading materials that it leads to, or that I can get my hands on on this subject?

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Find some people who worked on his campaign...

...and ask them directly. There are still a few of them around and many were Ron Paul supporters.

Are you kidding me?

That was... literally over 50 years ago... I think most of them are either in office, or in some kind of position now... How can I really find them??

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

What's Fascinating Is The Endorsement Of Mr. Libertarian

Murray Rothbard endorsed LBJ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW40TzWcnOA

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

Murray Rothbard

THE Libertarian? the one that's so anti-government that he makes Milton Friedman look like a Statist?

That's interesting for sure, but I am not too sure how I can use that... Rothbard is not exactly representative figure in this historic era, he's pretty much thought of as fringe, now if Friedman were to say something about him...

SO yeah, any books to suggest?

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Anatomy Of The State

http://mises.org/easaran/chap3.asp

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

Well, I know of the book

But I can't really use it for the research. It's a good recommendation. Any suggestions about Goldwater?

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Conscience Of A Conservative

Ghostwritten, I believe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conscience_of_a_Conservative

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

Barry supported...

..the policy of excommunicating the only grassroots of its time, the JBS--which had significant Americanist leanings. Buckley wrote on this great victory of his (easily googled) but it was Goldwater's failure to denounce the intervention in Vietnam and call out the conspirators that resulted in the easy campaign from LBJ that presented Goldwater as crazy 'Hawk' that turned the election.

Longtime Internet Poster

By any chance

http://www.amazon.com/Flying-High-Remembering-Barry-Goldwate...

you mean this book? Have you read it?

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

I believe I read an excerpt

I believe I read an excerpt from that book--if you are interested I can look for it. It was Buckley in his own words (the point I thought was interesting was that he says he excommunicated JBS over their failure to support Vietnam, not the conspiratorial tendencies.)

I'll look around for it anyway.

Longtime Internet Poster

I don't know ...

... what direction you are trying to take your paper, specifically. And, I was not around watching elections at the time. But we can piece together some of history to get a general idea of what happened.

Goldwater was more like Ron Paul than any other politician of the day. The Libertarian Party was founded in 1971 (or 1972). So, "libertarians" were not as popular in 1964 as they are today. However, Goldwater was closer to a libertarian than the Rockefeller Republicans. The Rockefeller Republicans were the neocons or progressives at that time. IOW: they were what we call today RINO's. Not real conservatives, and certainly not libertarian.

Remember: the Rockefellers and their cronies have always loved BIG (HUGE) government, because THEY profit from it. They are NOT conservatives. Never have been, never will be. That family has a long history of getting the USA into wars so they they can benefit financially. It's not about "politics" for them. It's about money. Goldwater was the antithesis in that he wanted a smaller, constitutional government.

Today, the Tea Party is more conservative than anyone else in the GOP. Ron Paul and Rand Paul are more libertarian leaning. The RINO's like Bush, McCain, Karl Rove, etc. are neo-cons/progressives. They are not real conservatives.

In 1964, Goldwater was a conservative Republican. He was against the Rockefeller gang. But the Rockefeller gang got to work and dominated the party (for the most part) after that.

Nixon was the nominee in 1968 and 1972. Nixon was a protege of Prescott Bush, father of George H. W. Bush, and personal friend of the Rockefellers (Prescott's father, Samuel, was the first Bush to get "in" with the Rockefellers).

So, in 1968, the Rockefeller Republicans controlled the GOP with Nixon. Same in 1972. In 1974, Nixon resigned and put Gerald Ford in as president, who named guess who to Vice President? Nelson Rockefeller.

In 1976, Ronald Reagan came very close to getting the GOP nomination. Reagan was much more in the mold Goldwater. You could say Reagan was a "Goldwater Republican." But he narrowly lost to Ford, a Rockefeller Republican, who lost the general election to Carter.

In 1980, it was Ronald Reagan vs. George Bush (yet another Rockefeller Republican). Reagan won, and evidence suggests that Bush tried to kill Reagan by having the son of his family friend, John Hinckley, Jr., take him out. You might want to leave THAT out of a high school paper, though. ;-)

Of course, Bush won in 1988 and lost in 1992. In 1996, it was Bob Dole's turn. Dole had been VP nominee with Ford in 1976, and Dole was another Rockefeller Republican.

In 2000 and 2004, you have George's son as president, yet more Rockefeller connections. Since then, the GOP has put up McCain and Romney, both of whom are progressives, not conservatives (Romney was actually a Democrat not that long ago).

So ...

If you are trying to prove that Goldwater fundamentally changed the GOP in 1964, I would disagree. The Rockefeller/neocon/progressive RINO's are the ones who have had control of the party for a few decades. Goldwater was a minor bump in the road. (Unfortunately)

I Think Romney Was An Independent

Has anyone established he was ever a Democrat?

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"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

I don't know hwere that popped up

but politically, he might as well as have been..

Anyhow, thats not really related to goldwater.

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Oh... Isee, that's unfortunate...

But I think control of the party lies not JUST in the presidential nominations. For example, in the article that I linked to in the OP, the author suggested that Goldwater transformed the funding to a less-elite based to a more grass-root based activity. There were record amount of volunteers during the Goldwater Campaign, reminds you of someone else?

Of course, those aren't really proofs for the party changing IDEOLOGICALLY after that... But from what I could piece, GOP didn't really go anti-welfare during the New Deal era. But what about after Barry Goldwater? Maybe even foreign policy? Ike Eisenhower shyed away from nuclearly bombing China, as well as not invading Vietnam, but after that, Nixon escalated the Vietnam War, and Reagan, well, military grew under him...

I dunno really, right now I am just going to come up with a draft, I can change it drastically later of course. But I think right now I what I would like are some resources that I could trust, but also reputable, or some books, any resource that I could use to do this paper on.

And yeah, no way I can put that Bush assassination thing in the paper, lol. Right now I rather just focus on the changes brought about by Goldwater, considering the time before and a little after, maybe up to Ronald Reagan.

So yeah, do you know any good sources? I am thinking of using this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Before-Storm-Goldwater-Unmaking-Consen...

"Truth is Treason in an Empire that lies" - Ron Paul

Educate the masses, and win in the end.

Hmm ...

... I don't really have any good ideas about how to show Goldwater's legacy.

Go back before Goldwater. In 1960, Nixon was nominee (Rockefeller Republican). In 1956 and 1952, it was Ike, who was surrounded and IMO basically controlled by Rockefeller people (Prescott Bush, Nixon, and the Dulles brothers). I think Ike was a good man, but a bad (naive) politician.

So, you could go back several elections before 1964 and show how the people on the other side of Goldwater were controlling the party. Then, you could use Ronald Reagan's 1964 speech "A Time for Choosing" that he delivered on behalf of Goldwater.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Time_for_Choosing

That links Goldwater to Reagan, and the "Reagan Revolution." Reagan was the key figure because everybody in the GOP tries to run on his coattails, even the big government establishment types.

Then, you could show that Reagan endorsed Ron Paul, who was one of the sparks of the Tea Party, who put the small government Republicans into Congress in the 2010 election, which gives the GOP some control.

That might not be a great paper, but it could help show that Goldwater's nomination "woke up" and "energized" the conservative base against the establishment GOP. Also, the Libertarian Party arose out of the GOP when Nixon imposed wage and price controls. That's another tangent.

You might even show that Rand Paul is "leader" of the "Tea Party" (not exactly true, but close enough for high school paper) and it is Goldwater's legacy we are seeing played out today when Boehner, Rove, and other establishment GOP are fighting for control of the GOP against Rand/Tea Party.

Anyway, good luck and have fun with it!