31 votes

STOP signs aren't GREEN

Stop signs waste fuel and are not "green"... I've made it my personal mission to educate people about the uselessness and waste that is the "Stop Sign" in western culture. I've never done the math but if you add up all the times people stop at a stop sign in a year across this country I know that the fuel that is wasted by performing a full stop and then re-accelerate would be way over millions of gallons of wasted fuel.

I've spent a good bit of time in China over the last 20 years and it wasn't until perhaps my 6th trip over there that I noticed that there were NO stop signs!! Well I had seen the great amount of traffic flowing all across China and it was obvious from my first encounter with moving around any road in China that vehicles manage to get around fine without hardly ever stopping (unless there's a red light or traffic jam). It really hit me hard when I realized that the Stop Sign is completely absent in China. For several years I started looking every time we traveled trying to find the elusive stop sign. Oh, eventually I saw a couple. They were usually at a check point or entrance to a private gated community where the guard could check your parking pass, but I couldn't find any conventional "intersection" stop sign.

I started wondering "how is it that there is not death and mayhem at every intersection (and there are billions of intersections)?" The Chinese are pretty crazy drivers and I actually like the style of driving there because it is very "anarchistic". Yet somehow these billions of drivers manage to go home to their families every night!! Something was wrong with what I'd been taught all these years about driving.

I started to think about stopping at every intersection. I'd long felt stupid stopping for an intersection at 2am when there's no one around for miles. And it really annoys me when I come to an intersection about the same time as another car and we do the guessing game of who is going to go first. In China when a driver approaches an intersection they slow down and look for traffic. They spot where they can "barge" in and make their move. Cars seldom actually stop unless there's traffic in the way. This is a much better use of fuel than making millions of useless stops every day (not only wasting fuel but also additional wear on the brakes).

Then I remembered when I walked to school in the 60's and there were only a few stop signs. Most intersections would have a "Yield" sign for one direction and no sign for the other direction. This worked quite well. When a driver saw the yield sign they knew that the other road was the busier road and had the right of way over you. If there were cars entering the intersection you would "yield" to them and proceed when clear. It worked really GREAT!! How many intersections can you show me today that have a "Yield" sign at?? I can't think of any.

For at least the last 8 years now I've treated all STOP signs with disdain. I now NEVER do a full stop at intersections unless there's either a cop nearby to aggress against me for doing what is safe to do and for which there is NO victim or there's traffic that requires me to make a full stop.

In that time I've gotten only one ticket for failure to stop. It cost me $240. I would imagine that I've saved at least that much in fuel cost over the 8 years so I think it's about a wash. I would estimate that I've saved many hours on my traveling though and I cannot put a $$ value on that.

It's clear to me that the TRUE reason for the proliferation of stop signs over my lifetime is REVENUE!!

Sorry to be so long winded but I want as many people as will join me to start acting like you have a brain. STOP stopping at stop signs unless there's a good reason to stop. Slow down and look, if it's clear and no cop aggressors are nearby, save yourself some time and fuel and move on down the road!

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Roundabouts are cool...

~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Look kids!

Palament ... Big Ben.

In my small Southern town...

they've put in a few roundabouts in medium traffic intersections. Very pleasant and refreshing to not have to stop. :)

~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

ChristianAnarchist's picture

I did my part in saving the

I did my part in saving the planet today by running a bunch of stop signs...

Not just theory

UPS avoids left turns. Saved 10 million gallons of fuel.


In Panama a "Stop" sign means "Give Way"..

Hi everyone,
When I lived in Panama,I soon learned that there is no way you stop at a stop sign,unless absolutely necessary.
It makes complete sense,and traffic keeps moving,rather than "stop and go".
Even the Cops don't stop!

"Carpe Diem"-Seize the day!!!

Great article man, very

Great article man, very informative... :)

Big Time Bump!

I am totally with you. I agree it is silly and retarded to STOP when you are the only person at an intersection or the intersection is really slow.

ChristianAnarchist's picture

It's clear that the goons

It's clear that the goons like stop signs as it's a good source of revenue. I've seen the gang members parked in their cars near a sleepy 4 way stop many times waiting for the poor sap who doesn't see them to slip through without the full rock-back effect. It's easy money!!

Yea, no

For a moment I thought this was Austin.

Yea, I've been to a few countries like this and a ten second clip of things "working" isn't a replacement for stories from people who lived and drove there relaying the horrors. Ye flipping gods a three week trip to Zambia was enough for me to love the traffic laws I hate.

Here, you are getting rid of stop signs/lights. Now, imagine this rule free environment where the shoulder is no longer a no drive zone and driving on the left/right hand side is merely a suggenstion that everybody ignores. Also imagine that people don't drive with their lights on at the darkest hours of night to save their headlights. I could go on but my times on the road there with my father in law driving like he was competing in Twisted Metal was enough for me thank you. Also mind you this was all on roads that were more pothole than road because it was the only way to get people to slow down. And by pothole I don't mean a six inch dip in the pavement I mean car swallowing holes in the road.

There are certain rules we could do without and unecessary stop signs are one of them. Yea, that and the ass holes who keep removing the second turn lane because they don't think traffic backs up enough during rush hour.

Also, when you post nonsense be prepared for proof to the contrary. India has a traffic fatality rate more than 15 times that of the rule burdened USA. Here are some links to help you and a link to my favorite driver's ed training film.




ChristianAnarchist's picture

Another example of how

Another example of how "traffic controls" are pointless. Thank you.

Naked Street is a concept Re-Planners have advocated for years.

Re-Planners, as apposed to Central Planners, have been advocating for years that the signs come down. The republicans and democrats in charge of the hiring of traffic 'experts' won't listen to us.

Here: http://jalopnik.com/5379603/naked-streets-why-traffic-signs-...

Here: http://thecityfix.com/blog/naked-streets-without-traffic-lig...

J. Kistner C.P., MUP

ChristianAnarchist's picture

That clip is quite amazing.

That clip is quite amazing. The only real objection to be made is the blind man who does not feel safe in that environment (his concern is a legitimate one) but I feel that if he were to reach that intersection and wait a bit, some kind person would volunteer to help him cross safely. That's what it has to be about, people helping people. The "government" has been shown to be a poor solution to every problem...

Transitional Implementation?

For decades I've been beating this very drum.

Stop signs are a ridiculous waste of time and energy, and constitute an unconstitutional taking (of momentum, and by extension fuel) under the purview of the Fifth Amendment.

I've also been rolling through stop signs for some time and have so far gotten away with it. If I am ever ticketed and fined in excess of twenty "dollars" I am going to INSIST on a jury trial (under the authority of the Seventh Amendment) and argue my Fifth Amendment case before twelve good men and true.

As for the "transitional implementation"... I long ago designed a red Yield sign with white lettering on a HEXAGONAL background to get people used to the idea.

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Most people

if they're not stupid don't full stop at every stop sign, they slow down, which is the whole point, and keep an eye out for cops, which keeps them alert generally so they aren't running kids down.

If you're speeding down a residential street without good reason, you deserve the fine and if you do it enough times, you shouldn't be permitted on public roads so you don't kill a kid.

You can drive or 'travel' on your dirt lot.

ChristianAnarchist's picture

Most people are learning that

Most people are learning that stop signs are BS and I have noticed that more and more are treating them as "yield" signs which is a good thing. Now I don't agree with your "speeding" statement at all as "speeding" can be anything these days. If you don't have a victim you don't have a crime. It's not smart to do things that are dangerous such as drive at a high rate of speed through a residential zone but if you do it and no one is hurt you have not committed a crime...

There are crimes without vicitms all the time.

If you join a neighborhood association and agree not to paint your lawn poka dot orange, and do so, you're violating the rules. There are penalties. Same with a town. The aggrieved party in these cases is the whole group whos rules your flouting. When you're on roads provided by the public around houses and you drive twice the speed deemed safe by the same public, you are free riding on their property and not respecting its basic rules. It's like going into someone's store and taking a piss on the display case.

ChristianAnarchist's picture

If you damage someone's

If you damage someone's property, they have a legitimate claim against you. If you join a neighborhood association you agree to abide by the rules...

You're wrong on multiple counts

1) A person who joined a neighborhood association can deny that they agreed, and in order to enforce it would require aggression and majority rule on whether he signed the contract.

2) A person can change his mind and exit the contract, otherwise contracts to life long indentured service are valid and enforceable.

3) Joining a town and riding on its publicly paved roads is just as much agreement as signing a paper. When you enter the town you're implying consent to the rules on its public spaces.

4) Just because people decide to designate some of their property was open to the public under common rules doesn't mean you can violate those rules. Don't be a free rider and a scoff law unless you want to deal with the avenging arm of justice.

ChristianAnarchist's picture

"Implied Consent" is a ghost.

"Implied Consent" is a ghost. It doesn't exist. Just because I live in a geographical area that some gang of goons claims to have some power over doesn't mean I "consent" to their violence. In days gone by, it was "implied" that the aristocrats had the right to sleep with your wife before your wedding. Is that "implied" too? What if they say that everyone inside of their magic boarder is now required to provide 10 chickens each day to the city hall (broiled, not fried)? Do I have to do so because of "implied consent"? Either I've consented or I have not. There is no "IMPLIED"...

So when I drive through

the car wash, I don't imply my consent to pay at the end?

When I go to the barber, I don't imply my consent?

Please explain.

ChristianAnarchist's picture

When you go through the door

When you go through the door of the barber shop you can walk out before sitting in the chair if you don't like the prices. You can even get up in the middle of the haircut and complain that he's doing a crappy job and you are not happy with his ability and walk out with a half-done haircut and not pay. You did not "imply consent" for him to cut off your ear, for instance. When you move into a given geographical area you do not "imply consent" for "them" to change the rules and punishment every couple of years to whatever "they" feel like.


is what you're engaged in.

Stop dodging the question.

Do you imply consent to pay when you sit through the haircut and then get up to leave?

At no point did you sign or verbally state agreement to any fee.

Do you owe it nonetheless, due to implied consent?

Don't dodge the truth, CA, embrace it.

If you dodge again, I'm gonna slap you.

ChristianAnarchist's picture

Perhaps I did "evade" a bit

Perhaps I did "evade" a bit but so did you. You did not address the habit of "governments" changing the rules on you without additional "consent" and yes, implied consent perhaps does apply in the barber shop situation (which is also why you can complain about not getting a good enough haircut because that is also "implied"). These are business transactions. I don't see how they apply to property ownership. Are you claiming that simply because I live in a given area that by staying there it's "implied" that I will jump through any hoop they dream up from now to eternity??

So when a town

composed of property owners puts up a sign asking you not to speed on the common roads that have been designated out of private holdings for the benefit of everyone, you imply consent when you drive into that town to follow its injunctions.

ChristianAnarchist's picture

So you still don't want to

So you still don't want to address the question about how my "implied consent" continues on no matter how they change the rules??


change prices regularly and post signs to that effect.

same with speeding areas, stop SIGNS, etc.

if someone sneaks up behind you with a stop sign and plants it in the ground after you drive past, then you'd have a point.

ChristianAnarchist's picture

Unresponsive... I asked you

Unresponsive... I asked you about how this binds you to unlimited changes. Once you're "in" you can never get out. I can always leave the barber shop, not so easy to pack up all your stuff and sell your house (not to mention if the burden gets too onerous no one will want to buy your house...)

I don't know of any stop signs

or speed limits that are too onerous for you to sell you house. Please stay on topic, we're discussing traffick laws. Don't try to sneak in laws that are not under discussion, and are not covered by implied consent, as a straw man argument.