-24 votes

Lucifer was the good guy, the dissident who stood up for what's right

I'm not a religious man. I was raised in in a Christian family and went to church every week for the first several years of my life. I was baptized a Presbyterian and later attended a Methodist church up until the age of 12-ish.

I've always been one to ask questions and I'd often ask the nice elderly couple who taught sunday school at the first church about things that seemed contradictory... like the phrase "and god said let US create man in OUR own image" or the story of Jonah in the whale... it wasn't that I doubted God or Jesus, I just wanted things to match. even at a young age I wanted continuity of message, I wanted proper context and syntax.

As I've grown older I've spent much more time with the Bible. I've read it cover to cover a few times. I've also read the complete Torah, the Tao Te Ching, The Epic of Gilgamesh, various vedas, The book of Mormon and any other religious book I could find. I've studied Native American religion (including central/south American cultures), Celtic, Nordic, Greek, Zoroastrian and other traditions... and I have come the conclusion that the Bible was edited/altered in an intentional effort to deceive the masses.

The serpent is the knowledge-bringer in most traditions. A good guy associated with "the light" and "wisdom". Only in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition is the light-bearer a bad guy.

I've always viewed the different religions as all being an attempt to both record history and to explain that which more primitive man was unable to understand... so I think there's a lot of historical fact mixed in with the various fables and tales of prophets, gods and angels.

I've finally constructed a reality which makes things jive in my head... since this board is full of people who think differently and all have a different interpretation of history and reality I thought I'd share the below theory and see your thoughts. It's not my intention to anger or alienate anyone and I don't want to insult anyone's beliefs. I just want to share this:

I think Lucifer led a revolt against God because he determined humans were capable of higher thought and shouldn't be treated as livestock. He transplanted populations to distant regions in an effort to protect them. He taught them about astronomy and farming and language and math. During the rebellion, Lucifer was winning... I think this battle raged for hundreds if not thousands of years. During the rebellion I believe Lucifer assumed the name of God. (look up Enki & Enlil to understand this better) I believe Jesus was actually one of Lucifer's guys. He was against the system, threw the money-changers out of the temple and didn't recognize authority other than God... New god, good god... not the vengeful and violent god of the old testament but the peaceful loving god of the new testament (a different entity).

Old god (Enlil) eventually wins the war and reassumes the title of God. Recognizing the value of propaganda there are certain changes made to the historical record among the conquered people (the central mass of western humanity from North Africa through western Asia and central Europe).

I don't have a clear line on the modern angles... the whole anti-Christ or Ma Di concept... I can only theorize that it's an effort to steer people away from seeking knowledge. Only Judeo-Christian-Islamic traditions discourage followers from seeking answers from sources outside their religious texts.

I'm pretty confident in asserting that the Jews, Christians and Muslims are loyal to the same "old god" (Enlil) and the rest of the world seems to follow the "new god" (Enki/Lucifer).

and I think the "NWO/Illuminati" are NOT luciferians, but follow the spiteful old testament god, Enlil, and for propaganda purposes frame Enki as their evil master.

Call me crazy... I'm used to it... but it felt good to type all that out and share.

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It's all about astrology......and scary stories

Reading your post, and the responses from others, I can't help but feel sorry for your expending so much time and energy on something that is moot. Having read so much about religion, it is surprising to me that you didn't some to the same conclusion I did - that all religion complete BS needed to control people. You will only be free when you realize that all superstitions, gods, ghosts, heavens, acupuncture, jinxing a field-goal, all of it is bunk. It should be so clear to you, knowing all the contradictions in the stories. You have done a good job of creating patchwork to try to bring things into focus, but there are still a lot of inconsistencies in your story. And, no evidence for any of it, not a shred.

I think the most basic form of religion throughout the world is astrology. Many of the characters in the Bible, Koran, etc... can be traced to astrology and actual astronomy. The number 12 is a big one. 12 Tribes of Israel, 12 disciples, etc... If you read the descriptions of these 12 things you can match them with constellations and each month having the dominant constellation. You can find evidence of 12 all over the world in many different religions - because they are recording the changes in the sky. Which, to the primitive people, were unknowable.

Then there is the commonality of the nativity from dozens of pagan "god-men" being born around the winter solstice (the "sun/son" coming out of Virgo, the Virgin), bringing new life and longer days, etc... Most of these "god-men" were killed and rose from the dead around the spring solstice. I'm sure you have read about Dionysus and Mythra.

I think that you have gone the opposite direction from truth. You have complicated everything to a near impossible amalgamation you have zero evidence for. You can, on the other had, look at all the writings and stories and see them for what they are - primitive storytelling and stories used to control children. Then, you will be free.

Books to read:
"The Jesus Mysteries" -- very nicely done, written in thesis format, showing how Jeshua was the combination of several pagan religions.

"The Christ Conspiracy" -- great analysis of the astrological basis for the Bible. Lots of juicy political power stuff in there as well. Not for the easily offended.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

Christianity and my conscience lead me to the same conclusion.

Treat others as you would like to be treated.Treat others with goodwill,kindness,compassion,forgiveness and mercy.Admit and repent of your mistakes and the wrong things you have done ,said, and thought.Swallow your pride and let your conscience be your guide to truth and to what is right or wrong.That is what being a Christian and following Christ means to me.

To me,it has nothing to do with religious denominations.With all due respect,if you consider yourself a follower of Christ(Christian)I cannot see any good in putting yourself in religious categories such as catholic,protestant,mormon,Jehovah's witness etc.

If you are atheist and reading this,please hear me out.While I can see many wrongs in myself,others,organized religions and political power structures,I honestly cannot see any wrong in Christ and making the effort to follow His example which rings true to my conscience.Even if you don't believe in God,does it not make sense to live by these principles anyway?(See above)Can we at least agree to unite behind and promote those principles,including liberty and non-aggression,whether we believe in God or not?We know our conscience is real,whether we believe in God or not.Conscience being defined as our inner sense of right and wrong,good and evil,better or worse,fair or unfair and just or unjust.The video linked at the bottom of this post addresses this topic.

Here is a suggestion on how to unite behind and promote said principles and maybe make the world a better place.

If we had a large enough amount of people in America and the world united behind our shared principles, and demanded strict adherence to said principles over politics or parties,then the politicians would truly have to represent us or find themselves out of a job and irrelevant.

We can make progress every single day if we focus on winning hearts and minds. Here is a suggestion on how to do it:

We get one or two great short ads/videos that promote our shared values of truth, freedom, and peace. Just picture a short video explaining why we should bring our troops home, have sound money, cut taxes and spending, balance the budget, end the drug war and give power to the individual while promoting the golden rule,the non-aggression principle and voluntary humanitarian help to our fellow man.

Then we have a money bomb only to DIRECTLY purchase airtime for said ad/video. We vote with our dollars on which video is best.Then we have a "time bomb"(lol) where we all donate our time and focus our efforts spreading the video on facebook, twitter, youtube etc. Keeping it front page on the DP would surely help. Imagine if for a period of time, let's say a month, the front page of Daily Paul was dedicated to an effort to spread a video that promoted all the principles we share. The video could also include a link or mention of DP and/or a dedicated website sending new people there to join in the effort. Then we fine tune our efforts to make sure we are winning people over. And as long as we see it is working, we NEVER stop.

While commercials for politicians become obsolete,the principles of truth,freedom,peace,non-aggression and goodwill will NOT become obsolete.I do not think a reasonable person would argue against the statement that the more people we have united behind these principles,the better.Therefore,does this idea not make sense?

With the "time bomb" method, we could make our message go viral on the internet, nationwide and worldwide, without asking people for money. With the right videos and a united effort by us, I am convinced this would work. In my opinion, this is how we win.

Anyone got a better idea? I'm all ears.

(here is the link to a former post suggesting this idea) http://www.dailypaul.com/275394/michaelplease-consider-this-...

Interesting perspective.

I believe Lucifer thought he could "evolve" and become like God, and therefore he wanted to be God. God said, "I don't think so, bud." And kicked him out of the place of high worship, for Lucifer was the lead worshipper with many different sounds in his throat in which to sing.

So God throws them to earth where they saw human woman and thought they were hot and had lots of sex with them creating giants.

Lucifer still believes he can evolve, and even teaches that evolution can happen to everyone and that we all can become god.

A lot of nonsense just like darwinism, neo-darwinism, punctuated equilibrium, or any other crap they still teach today.

Remember: Think of life as just and as perfect and as wonderful as you possibly can, and remember that God thought about it a bit more than you.

When did common sense become a super power?

Sounds to me as a justification

to believe in conspiracy theories. You obliviously have never been exposed to Plato or Aristotle. Religion, at least western Christianity roots and the State can be traced directly to them. Since western civilization came from Greece I suggest reading this post. It will even enlighten you to why you think what you think.


BTW let go of the "NWO/Illuminati" nonsense and reality will happen.

Wow!! You've come to exactly the conclusion he hoped you


Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Religion is a form of control

Religion has been a historic form of control and genocide. This unfortuate fact has always made many question belief systems. I appreciate that you posted your thoughts, since free thinking individuals need to question the status quo.

No one knows the absolute truth, not even the Pope. None of us were here.

Side note to ancient history. Interesting that on day one of the second Iraqi invasion, the Iraqi Natl. Museum was trashed and thousands of historical "facts" went missing. The following day a scientific breakthrough was annouced, the DNA Helix Sequence decoded!




Our Creator works in mysterious ways and no one knows the truth.

interestingly enough Lucifer

interestingly enough Lucifer is no longer part of the modern translations of the bible, maybe there is a reason for that?

Maybe the Lucifer myth is just that, a silly myth based upon the free-spirit of altering the message of christianity within the catholic church.

Bill Cooper

had many series on the mystery schools.

According to him, one of the teachings of tptb is almost exactly what the original post is saying.

example: man and woman was held captive by an unjust god in the garden of eden until lucifer enlightened them with knowledge, etc.

The slogan press on has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race. No person was ever honored for what he received. Honor has been the reward for what he gave.

- Calvin Coolidge

Other religious options . . .

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose

that's so deep!

Ridicule is the recourse of fools, says the bible.

When did common sense become a super power?

Fools can't tell the difference

between (friendly) humor and (malicious) ridicule, says dabooda. Pax vobiscum.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose


A good one for Thursday.

And don't forget this mighty one:

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

My God Died to Forgive the Sins of Man

Your God searches for a nail to drive wherever he goes. Kinda like the foreign policy of the U.S. Government.

your god believes in the redistribution of spiritual wealth

He died for your sins. Sounds kinda like "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

Just as the acronym

GRACE stands for God's Riches At Christ's Expense. So we turn to Jesus to get his take on the matter and interestingly, he goes entrepreneur on us and brings up the difference between owner and employee.

John 10:11-14
“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand, who is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and runs away—and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. The hired hand runs away because a hired hand does not care for the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me."

Yes. I've always said that love is the only thing that makes

that work--like in a family.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Thor (Tor) does not simple

Thor (Tor) does not simple drive nails with his hammer. He strikes his anvil so hard that thunder splits the sky. Beat that dude :)

I think you nailed it.(pardon the expression)

Statism is a religion itself, one founded on the principle that some people have a right to nail other people. Foreign policy is an obvious instance, but the whole quasi-religious edifice of "government" is about deciding who gets to sacrifice whom, under what conditions.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose

Humans as livestock?

How were humans and/or souls, being treated like livestock?

If I believe 2+2=5

it doesnt matter how many math books I read I will be wrong.

It appears that when you read all those religious books you read it from the perspective of billions of years, and that "god" is either abstract or some alien king. Thats not even remotely what any of those books are saying.

That said God is a holy God, he can not allow sin into his presence but because he loves us he sent his Son Jesus to die on the cross to pay the price for our sin. If you were guilty of a crime and the judge paid the price instead of you would you say that the judge is spiteful because he found you guilty or would you say the judge is wonderful because he paid the price?

Furthermore my God is not distant or abstract, he lives within my heart, and if you would ask him to forgive you of your sins he would live in your heart too as my God made us to walk with him, he never intended for this distance to be between us and if it wasnt for lucifer we would be walking with the almighty.

Please watch this really

well done documentary, called: Cosmic Conflict - It will solve the question of The Origin of Evil


A good way to defend your freedoms: www.libertymagazine.org

Penultimate video expressing sentiment of OP [I think]...

http://youtu.be/4Dr0WgduMRo ... ......... ... DON'T SCROLL DOWN!

...and I double dog dare you Notas, to place it in the original post! :D

The version I posted here has brighter audio and sounds better on some sɥıʇʇʎ speakers, but this version has higher resolution video and more balanced audio. Free Willy!


Why does it matter?

If I read all those books believing them to be equally valid despite their contradictions I would not believe any of them.

If I believed that TPTB and the churches lied about it all I would believe nothing- not even the opposite of what they say. Good liars never tell untruths exclusively.

If God exists and matters is it worth creating my own version of events and risking being in error about it all?

But isn't that the entire point?

...that we are now creating our own version of events?

We are the characters now manifesting the story.

I do understand what you are generally saying though. You were referring to past events, making sense of them. Truth is, we can't make sense of them. We can learn much from history, but we can't sense it, but for the present. The past presents archetypal notions of legendary characters, but we are the actors now. At some point we need to leave our scripts in the dressing room and hit the stage [right here, right now]. That's where it all makes sense if we act well.

Great song, and it's well posted here!

I might even presume it to be anthematic to one named "godofallbums". :D
I bet Utah Phillips was envious toward Dick Gaughan for the lyric.

If one were to read all my comments to this post, one might surmise me to be Luciferian. Alas, I am not. Had I been raised in Gaughan's religious milieu, I might have eventually embraced some style of Luciferianism, something parallel to the sentiment expressed in this brilliant song.

Literalist Christian theology does congure tradition from which to rebel. It's a sort of paradox that such theology eventually prompts one to rebel against that which itself seemed initially to be the rebel. It's a brilliant song and bears much light. Judas becomes the penultimate Luciferian figure. Of course though, it was written by a man steeped in literalist tradition.

It's also likely that some would see [in Gaughan's song] Jesus as the Luciferian figure [or even John the Baptist, okay, he's not actually in the song], but that is simply commentary on how ambiguous the term "Lucifer" is in the context of diverse modern worldview.

My two rants went largely unnoticed; I'm disappointed.

God is REAL, flesh and blood real. We were made in his image and likeness, which to my mind means we look like him/them and we have attributes that are very similar.
Yeah, I can call myself a Sitchinite since the only God stories that make sense is the interpretations of Zecharia Sitchin and he proves every point he makes; and he is not alone. When he authored his main book that was 1976, and hundreds of books about Sumerians and gods who came to Earth were authored by as many archaeologists and interpreters (wrong word) since 1950's. It's probably because organized religion had gotten so powerful that alternative ideas of "who is God" were quashed early on; but here we are in 2014, so what are we afraid of? Open mind anyone?

Most comments seem to address quotes from the Bible, and I'm here to tell you the Bible is a compilation of books written originally on clay tablets in either Assyrian or Sumerian languages while the Bible as we know it was written on papyrus or leather in Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic. Now that the original stories on clay tablets have been unearthed in the Mesopotamia area shouldn't we throw out the Bible and embrace the earlier "scriptures"? No because tptb insist on keeping us ignorant so we go around like sophisticated boingy boings conjecturing and theorizing left and right, while all along the truth is before our very eyes.
So the Bible is either plagiaristic and/or intentionally deceiving for various reasons.
It seems by this time almost everyone has heard of the name Ea, and of that I'm surprised because in months earlier posts no one would mention that name but me. I've stated the Bible God is a Generic God because the original stories had various gods as the main character (always called Jehovah) and sometimes even the planet from which they came as when God is referred to as "Lord of Hosts"; in this reference it is not God but the godly Planet that is being referred to, but this is an aside.
My discovery of the name Ea as being the true name of Jehovah should be almost earth shattering information, or so I thought, at least in sophisticated circles. Not a Wow!, not a challenge? No interest?
Does the idea make people uncomfortable because it's so left field or what?
God is alien because he came from another planet - big deal. Why should that change anything, it has drawn me closer to my God Ea because now I can relate that he is real and alive most likely. If his people are millions of years older (as a civilization) than earthlings then he surely could do Godly things.

Have you seen the artifacts of jet planes that are many thousands of years old, who could invent such an idea? and the Egyptian hieroglyphs depicting helicopter, boat, submarine as vivid as a cartoon. Look at all the technology that was used thousands of years ago by God/the gods: pyramids of Giza - named after the Architect (in plain sight) Ningishzida, a son of Ea/Enki, and who according to Edgar Cayce 80 years ago reincarnated into Jesus Christ. Cayce only knew this in a sleepstate so apparently he was able to tap into the Cosmic Information Bank or something; and think of the implications: Ningishzida or Gishzida or Giza to his best friends one may think, was the son of Ea/Enki whose many works were the exact same as those of the Jewish/Christian God Jehovah and whose son was Jesus Christ. Now that is exciting if you are a searcher of truth. It means Ea is Jehovah and Jesus the son of God.

God asked of Job: Who built the foundations? The largest quarried stones on the face of our planet is the Trilithon, three stones that make up most of the platform in Baalbek, Lebanon.
Batteries have been found and beautiful paintings in Egypt of giant light bulbs were possibly used in the pyramids while they were building. In Puma Punka, Peru holes in perfectly cut stones most likely were made by electronic drills thousands of years ago.
And the oracle or temples where certain priests with the dna mark that Aaron had could commune with God otherwise they would die of the trespass, wow. The temple would be covered with mica, a fireproof material. The cordless phone, er, the ark of the covenant. In India they have 37 names of flying saucers, and their scriptures include ufo's like crazy.

Okay, I'm done. You said "Recognizing the value of propaganda there are certain changes made to the historical record ...". I think that is more than plausible. This is what powerful organizations do, the most cruelest form of fighting: deceit.
I saw a six hour documentary about Hitler, that shows with documented evidence that much of what we "have been told" about Hitler is a total fabrication by the fearful imperialistic U.S. and Britain and Russia. Their promise was to incessantly denigrate Hitler as a beast Tyrant so not one person on Earth will remember him as the champion of the people, the man who got Germany out of depression and rose the country to lead the world. He had to be stopped.
And here's another good one: Nowadays when we speak of Presidents Day Holiday, no one even thinks of Washington, it's always the Great Emancipator Abraham Lincoln. The truth is Lincoln was the greatest Tyrant that America has ever known, well, Grant, was right up there too, but Lincoln was responsible for deaths of hundreds of thousands of American citizens and purposely killed women and children during his generals march over the southern states to punish the States for seceding from the Union and as an excuse to centralize and expand government. In today's numbers the Civil War death toll would be about 10 million citizens. No wonder he's the greatest president of all time, because our reality is a lie.

I think once you know that God of the Bible - after all if there were no bible would we be talking about God - is Ea/Jehovah (whose icon is the Serpent as I mention in other rants) who cares for anything more. When two major factions are at odds, history will be written by the winner; it is a given.

Good night and God (Ea that is) bless you all.

Do you even know what an image is?

You in the mirror is an image. A statue is an image. You are nothing like God other than having been graced by his reflection. Humble yourself and receive the gift of life he has for you where you might even begin to understand what He made you to be. More than an image but filled with His Spirit.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
www.yaliberty.org - Young Americans for Liberty
www.ivaw.org/operation-recovery - Stop Deploying Traumatized Troops

"Image and Likeness", wise ass.

I know what an image is, do you know what "likeness" is?


This dude is all over the place, on the one hand defending Hitler and on the other hand trying to supplant Biblical history. Are you off your meds today? The reason nobody is paying attention to you is because it is a very basic understood historical thing that the entire philosophy of the ancient Sumerians was vastly different than the Jews. Jewish beliefs were not at all derived from the Sumerians. Jewish beliefs differ from all ancient societies. I would recommend an extremely basic book on the subject.