26 votes

Immigration reform is a red herring

While I vowed to myself that I would quit writing about politics, I cannot sit idly by as I witness fellow libertarians nibble on the devil's candy.

The deafening call to "secure the borders" is a red herring. How could one believe otherwise? When has the marble building occupiers of Washington DC had the best interests of the People in mind?

They are looking for popular support to push through their agenda. However, good luck getting Democrats to support immigration reform. On top of that, the GOP is beginning to wane in numbers - as the sun is beginning to set on the Baby Boomer generation. Who does that leave? Answer: Independents and libertarians. They want your support to militarize the borders.

How utterly brilliant and ironic. They must say - "Let's get those libertarians to help us push our agenda. What brown people do they hate? We'll use that."

Immigration is not the problem. Illegal immigrants aren't driving this country into the ground, but guess who is - the politicians. The very people who many of you are calling on for assistance are at the root of the problem.

Very few people cry and moan about immigration when the economy is in good shape, and people have jobs. Unfortunately, in collusion with the Federal Reserve, the US Central Government has taken a healthy dump on the economy by recklessly pumping bubbles to line the pockets of their cronies - and continue to do so. If the economy recovered, immigration would once again become a minor issue.

Militarizing the borders is not going to improve the economy. As a matter of fact, it will damage the economy even further. Who do you suppose would pay for those walls to be built, the sentry towers, the barbed wire, the military checkpoints, the helicopters, the unmanned drones, the Humvees, the arms and ammunition, and all the other goodies that they'll likely deploy along the border if they get their wish? You will pay for it.

Sounds like a libertarian idea to me.[\sarcasm]

What's even worse, by advocating a militarized border, not only are you spending your money to suit your fancy, you're also using force to get other people to fund your futile desires. Should I be forced to pay to put a cage around the nation when I disagree?

The State will fix the border in much the same fashion they fixed the health-care system. Expect the worst.

If you've so far failed to discover how the State operates, first, they make enough people think they need it. Then, they force everyone to pay for it. And ultimately, they use the "it" to benefit themselves and screw everyone else.

However, go back to sleep my sheep, the State has everything under control. Surely, this border thing is different.



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Most of you people are useless to me

Because you don't explain what should happen to these "children" once they skip across our free border.

That's very libertarian of you; allowing them to skip to freedom.

But you fail to address what happens next. Why is that? I suppose, as committed "libertarians", you would say nothing happens next. That means no welfare, no legal aide, no shelter, no food.

But of course, we all know that part two of your "libertarian" stratagem never happens. Instead, big government steps in and provides. And I pay. Not sure about you. Apparently, you have turned on, tuned in, and dropped out (or wetf) and found a way to simply observe and be amused from afar... while I pay.

So you are a purist and a "libertarian". And by your definition, that entails espousing A (open borders), which results in B (me paying), because it is "libertarian" to do so. But suddenly, to me, this "libertarian" stuff doesn’t seem so great.

None of you play chess I suppose, as you constantly look one move ahead. You would truly suck at chess. But perhaps you really do have good intentions, like our friends in Washington. I prefer to think it is just confused thinking, or sound bite thinking.

This isn't just some game you know. Put a little more thought in your policy positions.

The main thing they want ...

... is the biometric database, first to be used "only" for aliens (legal, illegal, quasi-legal or whatever), later to be morphed to ensnare everyone.

Ron Paul points out that the

Ron Paul points out that the land owners would have a say in a free society.

https://twitter.com/StonewallDP

Texas Liberty Talk Radio http://www.ragingelephantsradio.com/

Ron Paul on his son Rand Paul:
"he does a lot of things similarly, but I think he does everything better. Than I have done over the years,"

twenty million crossed the border

During Reagan, Bush, Clinton ,Bush. They came undercover. With Obama they don't care to be undercover. They were told to come by him. Now Obama wants 3 to 4 billion dollars to send welcome baskets to all of them. To the tens of millions that voted for him. You picked him your going to have to smell him. Glad to be born in the time I was. I supported Ron Paul always. Bought most of his books. Took his advice on Peace, love gold and silver.

Money talks and dogs bark

Ron Paul on Border Security

Ron Paul on Border Security and Immigration.

From Ron Paul.com:

A nation without borders is no nation at all. After decades of misguided policies America has now become a free-for-all. Our leaders betrayed the middle class which is forced to compete with welfare-receiving illegal immigrants who will work for almost anything, just because the standards in their home countries are even lower.

If these policies are not reversed, the future is grim. A poor, dependent and divided population is much easier to rule than a nation of self-confident individuals who can make a living on their own and who share the traditions and values that this country was founded upon.

Ron Paul’s six point plan puts a stop to illegal immigration:

1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.

2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.

3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.

4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.

5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.

6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

https://twitter.com/StonewallDP

Texas Liberty Talk Radio http://www.ragingelephantsradio.com/

Ron Paul on his son Rand Paul:
"he does a lot of things similarly, but I think he does everything better. Than I have done over the years,"

What do you suppose...

"Physically secure our borders and coastlines" would look like? How would it affect the daily lives of people living along the border?

It seems to me folks already don't like the post-9/11 explosion of border checkpoints done by the border patrol. How do you suppose they'll feel when they have ARs trained on them by an MP Marine asking about where their going and where they work, etc?

Ron Paul happened to be wrong. It's happens to the best of us.

Ron Paul was right, as usual.

Ron Paul was right, as usual. A lot of folks on the border are sick of being robbed and murdered, and having their property trampled by foreigners. Just recently a Mexican military chopper fired on our border patrol. The insanity needs to stop, we should worry about OUR borders, not the borders of Afghanistan and Iraq. Next time U.S Citizens are fired on, I hope they return fire. Marines should not turn their weapons on Americans, obviously. The Filipinos and Hispanics I know say deport the Illegals.

https://twitter.com/StonewallDP

Texas Liberty Talk Radio http://www.ragingelephantsradio.com/

Ron Paul on his son Rand Paul:
"he does a lot of things similarly, but I think he does everything better. Than I have done over the years,"

Crying to the State about immigration will achieve one thing...

Militarization of the borders.

The result of potentially implemented policies will be magnitudes of order worse than the immigration problem.

Don't worry, they will leave

Don't worry, they will leave the borders open because they love us so much. The 'State' is with you on this issue. It will get ugly down there though.

https://twitter.com/StonewallDP

Texas Liberty Talk Radio http://www.ragingelephantsradio.com/

Ron Paul on his son Rand Paul:
"he does a lot of things similarly, but I think he does everything better. Than I have done over the years,"

Ron's right given the current state of affairs!

Hell, yeah! Ron Paul is totally right! Though it may not be Libertarian, you can't have open borders when you have a welfare state!
End the welfare state, then we can be confident that the people coming will be doing so to make the most of their lives by hard work, not sucking up entitlements.

Fellow Libertarians? Most

Fellow Libertarians? Most people on here are Conservative Republicans. Very few people on here are actual "Libertarians".

Depends....

Looks like the site is dedicated to Ron Paul, who seems to possess more Conservative Republican views with respect to immigration.

What would the Founders do?

The politicians want an open

The politicians want an open border, funny how so many libertarians agree with them. DC does not have our interests in mind, they are bringing in the illegals to give them amnesty so they vote against liberty. The border is a real issue, we have criminals coming over and killing citizens in Texas where I live, and other border states. The 'drug lords' deal in all sorts of crime, human trafficking etc.

Secure the border. Will it happen? no, because the American people have been duped by Obama, and the open borders crowd on the left.

https://twitter.com/StonewallDP

Texas Liberty Talk Radio http://www.ragingelephantsradio.com/

Ron Paul on his son Rand Paul:
"he does a lot of things similarly, but I think he does everything better. Than I have done over the years,"

Totally. Open borders = a NWO favorite.

I thought this country was founded by nationalists, too. Hmmmm....

What would the Founders do?

Open/closed, it's all BS Stoney

There's a teenager across the street who keeps getting out of the house at 3 a.m. even though Ma has nailed his windows shut, has keyed dead bolts, motion detectors, stalks him on foot etc. He just keeps getting out no matter what.

This whole immigration explosion is a means to an end. I mean I was an elected GOP, lifelong (what I thought was) Republican, stupidly voted for Bush twice and even I can feel "the left's" bleeding-heart issue here.

You cannot put the squirt back in the grapefruit.

Rather than have forced i.d.'s, I think turning the benefit spigot off is an answer....as long as communities/churches come together for stop-gap measures of the hungry/homeless [of all stripes], (which is a real root of the problem to the answer because "Where is the Love?" type thing).

This issue is unwinnable.

There's no such thing as a winnable war
It's a lie we don't believe anymore ~ Sting

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

The border is open because of

The border is open because of the policies of people who seethe hatred of you, and I, and the Constitution. I do not support IDs. But the border should be secured. I am SICK of Texans being murdered by foreign cartels! Several years ago a car bomb went of in the DFW Metroplex. This is insane, these people are above the law. The death of America is being cheered on by Anarchists and Globalists.

https://twitter.com/StonewallDP

Texas Liberty Talk Radio http://www.ragingelephantsradio.com/

Ron Paul on his son Rand Paul:
"he does a lot of things similarly, but I think he does everything better. Than I have done over the years,"

I must be on the moon 'cause it does look like a big blue marble

I can only answer as I've heard RP say:
"Jesus didn't come for geographic reasons"
If we're to emulate Christ, I'd say "geographics" should be the least of our problems.

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

I have no issue with people

I have no issue with people who care about liberty and living a peaceful life. But innocent people are dieing on the border, it is a serious issue that will not go away.

https://twitter.com/StonewallDP

Texas Liberty Talk Radio http://www.ragingelephantsradio.com/

Ron Paul on his son Rand Paul:
"he does a lot of things similarly, but I think he does everything better. Than I have done over the years,"

Not to seem trite or uncaring of your concerns but

People are dying of all kinds of stuff everyday everywhere for multiplicitous reasons that "they" are probably in control of (to some degree). What'd you think a New World Order/One World Government/Anti-Christ/Rollercoaster of Incrementalism was going to be, a picnic?

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Fine, we are doomed.

Fine, we are doomed. I don't even know why I care about anything anymore. No one else seems to.

https://twitter.com/StonewallDP

Texas Liberty Talk Radio http://www.ragingelephantsradio.com/

Ron Paul on his son Rand Paul:
"he does a lot of things similarly, but I think he does everything better. Than I have done over the years,"

Honey I care

I almost sent myself to an early grave trying to help unwind the imminent onslaught of living hell. I've switched gears now and only deal with issues in my immediate vicinity (at this time). Remember me telling you about walking through with the vacuum cleaner and how I quiz the teenagers who group up at my house about "The Three Elements of True Crime"? Well that's not all they have been taught by me, trust. A whole posse of these kids....I'm forming a team of Liberty Kids down here and that's really the best I can do for the future (what there is of it). These teens are not focused on the border but on "The Philosophy of Liberty" which has the potential to set all of us free, regardless of boundaries.

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

I agree: Turn off the

I agree: Turn off the benefits gravy train and just watch these people stop coming over, and end birthright citizenship as well! Another unintended consequence of the War Between The States.

BTW, would Sting have declared war on Nazi Germany?
I believe in the Gadsden Flag which shows a poisonous snake which only wants to be left alone, but if you "tread on him", he's gonna hurt you bad! Otherwise, he minds his own business.
Sometimes there is a justifiable case for war. Rarely, though.

Gandhi had just met with Hitler

2 weeks before he killed himself. Coinkydink? I think not.

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

Something to consider big-picture-wise?

Was Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur correct when she indicated on the house floor that NASCO and the NAFTA Superhighway took wide swaths of the Mexican countryside by eminent domain thereby forcing "refugees" into our country?

That might be a face-melter.

At the heart of our illegal immigration problem is NAFTA's disruption of the Mexican countryside. ~ Marcy Kaptur
http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/1861539


http://youtu.be/DAs7XZVgKhI

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

A lot to consider

She makes some good points about stuff that is way
under the radar for most people. Of course she's talking
about the Bush administration doing this stuff, but under
Obama it's just a continuation of the SOS with TPP and such.

The whole thing about privatization of infrastructure is
something that is global - take Greece, for example.
They join the Eurozone by getting big banks to cook the
books about their financial situation, run up huge debts.
Then the banksters pull the plug, the crash comes
and the vultures swoop in to grab their gold reserves,
infrastructure like ports, airports and the like.

Her point about immigration and Mexico was probably at least
partly true at the time. She's not talking about people losing
their land by eminent domain or anything - it's about cheap
US corn suddenly flooding the market and putting Mexican
domestic corn producers (main basis for the rural economy in
big parts of Mexico) out of business.

Here's a short CBS News story about the situation from 2006 -
there are a lot more out there:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-nafta-good-for-mexicos-farmers/

I heard nothing of corn on this house floor video

to me she indicated that the taking of land for the "superhighway" had caused 2 million (which I realize is a "small number") folks to emigrate. Not disagreeing about the corn part necessarily, mox nix really, we're stuck with it at any rate. In the grand scheme of "world government", all this wickedness "has to happen", it's like watching a train wreck in slomo for some of us, because it was predictable yet unpredictably "wicked-savvy crafty of them" to run kazillions up here to overburden us.

I tire of the dragging out of old "enemies" in order to stir up hysteria amongst the People> in order that they scream for "security"> in order that "they" will roll-out national i.d.s (in order that everyone remain safe)> "ooops y'all are losin' the card too much, why didn't we foresee that problem?"> let's just implant for "identity"> chip > no buying and selling without> total control.

Problem-reaction-solution. You can see it coming a mile away.

Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer

The short of it

Another distraction and another biscuit. Lots of takers though.

Cyril's picture

Bottom line is: it's time to consider investing in stocks again

Ah well, knowing a bit about the plan of our so generous statists who dwell in D.C., the bottom line is:

it's time to consider investing in the stock market again.

The most promising pick that I can see on the horizon, AFAICT:

the vaseline producers stocks.

That's right. REALLY promising.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

Cyril's picture

The last time was shortly after 9/11

The last time was shortly after 9/11, with that - O so thoughtfully! - devised Patriot Act, as we know.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

As Ron Paul said..

If there is a fence and militarized border, it will eventually be used to keep Americans in, not to keep immigrants out.