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Why Doesn't George Takei "Hate the State?"

“Be the change that you wish to see in the world.” - Mahatma Gandhi

In a recent TED talk, actor George Takei gave a speech recounting the tale of how, at the age of five, he and his family were taken to internment camp for Japanese Americans during World War II. While Takei's story is frightening from a historical perspective, his attitude that developed from this traumatizing experience is truly inspiring. I highly recommend watching the 15 minute or so talk, and we'll pick up down below.

By all rights, George Takei should have every reason to "hate the state" for what the U.S. government did to him and his family. Forcibly removing the Takei family from their property and placing them in detention is an absolute affront to every ideal America is supposed to value. It could have easily made George Takei into a jaded, bitter anarchist who wants to burn all of the world's governments to the ground.

And yet, as he grew up and had discussions with his father, he came to realize that hate was not the proper path, and that he could still stand up for the same ideals he believed in despite the tragic events that occurred to him. George says his father told him,"Our democracy is a people's democracy; it can be as great as people can be, and as fallible as people are."

Set aside any reservations about "democracy" as a form of government you might have for a moment; that is not important here. What's important is the attitude, and it pertains to any society or any government. Continue Reading



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Agreed

Tactically, I don't think acting out helps anything. I would never burn a flag that I paid for and I certainly would never harm anyone elses property or person.

On the other hand pretending the evil isn't evil doesn't help anything either, which is why Takei makes me sad here.

He's saying in effect "If a gay Japanese person who suffered more than you likely ever will from state persecution can accept his servitude, why can't you accept it?"

That is not a message I can endorse nor condone.

A positive vision is certainly better...

When I talk to folks, I always have a smile on my face. I can't really help it anyway. I've had a smile parked on my face for most of my life.

Did you get into this movement because you liked the State?

From interacting with folks over the last couple of years, it seems to me that most of the people who are now "awake" came to be where they are by, first, learning information that made them come to dislike the State.

For me, the positive message is that the world would be much better off without the violence inflicted upon the world by "those in power."

The State is an ideological box of which I prefer to think outside.

I think most folks recognize the difference between people like that fellow you mentioned and the vast majority of the other people working to attain more liberty - against the State.

the State

"Did you get into this movement because you liked the State?"

No, I had never heard of "the State" the way it's referred to around here. I got into the liberty movement because I was upset with the injustice in the world, not with an abstract concept.

"From interacting with folks over the last couple of years, it seems to me that most of the people who are now "awake" came to be where they are by, first, learning information that made them come to dislike the State."

I think we really get into Bubble Zone here on the DP. The vast majority of people do not have any concept of "the State", but many people do understand the concept of justice, and case see injustice when it's pointed out to them.

"The State is an ideological box of which I prefer to think outside."

"the State" is not an ideological box any more than "a corporation" is. They are creations of men, and it is the men who create unjust institutions and support them (the vast majority of the population) that must be the focus of our efforts.

Hate the injustice, and call for a more just world, but simply espousing hate over an abstract concept serves no justice; if anything it inspires more by encouraging people to disengage from politics, and by giving government the perfect excuse to paint liberty-lovers as "terrorists." The ones going around espousing hate and cheering on the killings of police officers are the ones who will destroy any semblance of a "liberty movement" there is.

I should note I'm not referring to you here, just getting a little ranty :)

http://lionsofliberty.com/
*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*

The hate speech and promotion of violence against anyone...

is ultimately detrimental to any movement. However, that guy you speak of, I don't even know his name, and I doubt many others do either.

The State is not some abstract concept. It exists. Does the police state not exist, for instance? The State is simply a parasitic group of individuals who suppose they have rights that extend beyond the rest of humanity and establish a monopoly on force over a geographic region in order to sustain their unproductive, destructive selves. It certainly exists.

In the context of an ideological box, the State is a concept, again exalted above the rest of humanity, which is thought to have mystical powers whereby it can solve any problem. I prefer innovation over lobbying the State. That is what I meant when I said what I said.

"that guy"

Not sure if you're referring to Takei or Cantwell, but Takei has 1.24 million twitter followers or some such thing, and is quite a famous actor, so I think a good number of people have indeed heard of him.

http://lionsofliberty.com/
*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*

Not Takei... Cantwell

...

the State and such

"The State is not some abstract concept. It exists. Does the police state not exist, for instance?"

It is abstract in the sense that it is not just one "thing". It is not a separate entity that has entered our world through a dimensional portal to wreak havoc. The "police state" can be seen the same way. There is no concrete thing, there are simply a great number of things occurring that we point to as creating a "police state".

"The State is simply a parasitic group of individuals who suppose they have rights that extend beyond the rest of humanity and establish a monopoly on force over a geographic region in order to sustain their unproductive, destructive selves. It certainly exists."

"parasitic" can certainly describe many politicians and others that live directly off of the State's theft. But what about the rest of society, that supports the theft and violence? What is their role? Is their support for the State unrelated to the actual actions undertaken by the State? Is everyone in society a freedom-loving individual having the State imposed upon them?

'In the context of an ideological box, the State is a concept, again exalted above the rest of humanity, which is thought to have mystical powers whereby it can solve any problem. I prefer innovation over lobbying the State. That is what I meant when I said what I said."

Many libertarians/ anarchists bestow the same "magical powers" onto the State as statists do. It is just this all-seeing, all-powerful entity out there plucking away at humanity.

This is, of course nonsense. The State, as it is referred to here, is supported by the vast majority of people in concept and execution. If it is removed tonight, tomorrow morning new institutions will reappear to create a new "state".

"I prefer innovation over lobbying the State. That is what I meant when I said what I said."

Will "innovation" stop no-knock raids that kill people and maim infants?

How were marijuana laws repealed, resulting in far fewer individuals being entered into the "criminal class"?

http://lionsofliberty.com/
*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*

An innovative idea to make no-knock raids an immaterial...

strategy.

In the interior of the home, build a small "waiting area" just inside every exterior door which has another door that must be entered before actually reaching the interior of the home (simply a hall about 3' long and a little wider than a door width).

When they come to do the raid, the heavily armed men break intrusively through the front (or back) door only to find another door. It's the old box inside of another box motif.

The loud noise of breaking through the first door serves as a warning to the residents - thereby severely retarding the element of surprise of the intruders - which is the sole purpose of no-knock raids.

Innovation. It's a bitch.

Raids

this is indeed a good idea, Derrel, and could prove effective both against "no-knock raids" as well as just general home security.

But no technology or innovation can change people's philosophy. None of it will end the War on Drugs, which is the premise behind all of these no-knock raids. So while something like this may be effective in a micro sense, it will not change the situation at hand. The warrant will still be issued, and raids will still go forward, and people will still go be locked in cage for merely possessing a substance.

Innovations such as this should be encouraged, and can certainly be helpful to people, but they do not address the root problem.

http://lionsofliberty.com/
*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*

Will "innovation" stop no-knock raids that kill people...

and maim children? Yes.

Would lack of innovation solve the problem?

How were marijuana laws repealed, resulting in far fewer individuals being entered into the "criminal class"?

People quit obeying that particular law en masse and enforcement has become essentially futile - unless one is willing to cage all the smokers. The State is buckling to the Civil Disobedience. Just a few years ago, people were saying, "Pot will never get legalized in my lifetime." Do you think the State simply had a change of heart on its own?

No

Because "the state" is not a singular entity with a sinfular brain. Maybe it's a bit of a chicken-egg thing, but I think it's the general awareness of the population about marijuana that has led to its gradual legalization.

You speak as if "the state" is just a giant brain plugged into the enforcement apparatus, with no influence from the masses. If anything, the state changes as the masses change ( see the marijuana example.)

http://lionsofliberty.com/
*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*

When is the last time you looked at the Congressional approval..

rating? This idea that - "The State, as it is referred to here, is supported by the vast majority of people in concept and execution."

While, yes, a great number of people still believe the State can achieve their goals, that illusion is fading fast. The People are quickly becoming aware that this not a "free country" and that we don't have "the best government in the world" and other absurd notions.

Do you know why that is? It's because people like Ron Paul, Kokesh, Molyneux, us, and others calling them out.

The positive message to be found in liberty is innovation - finding ways to achieve goals without running to the Nanny. Bitcoin is a good example.

That's how the State will be defeated - human ingenuity.

"approval"

Congressional approval ratings will dip when times are bad, but do people disapprove of Congress because they are freedom-loving anarcho-capitalists who read some Rothbard and decided coercion is wrong? I would venture not for most, for most they see on the surface that Congress isn't "doing its job" , whatever they think that job may be. The fact that the disapprove of the Congress and the way they are going about things is not a reflection that they have adopted a philosophy of liberty of any kind.

http://lionsofliberty.com/
*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*

Hahaha and as long as people

Hahaha and as long as people think that way, government force will make sure you dance to whatever they want you to dance to.

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good things is my religion. Thomas Paine, Godfather of the American Revolution

If people really come to think that way in large numbers...

the State will cease to exist as it is known today.

.........:)

Loved Mr. Zulo in Star Trek

No-No Boys, the unsung heroes

Thanks for this Ted video, Takei spoke eloquently and graciously as someone who has become a leading figure in educating the populace about the internment camps. Takei chose to portray the 442nd Regimental Combat Team in its more traditional heroic mission. If you were to attend the musical “Allegiance,” in which Takei has an important acting role, a different picture emerges as the resistance (to the draft) movement at the Heart Mountain camp (Park County, Wyoming) is high-lighted as a counterforce to the government’s intimidation in its quest to extract loyalty oaths under the unreasonable conditions to which internees were subjected due to their internment. The “Leave Clearance Application Form” question 27 and 28 were stated in a way to unduly bind unconditionally the Nisei into volunteering for the 442nd; they tried to inject their own conditions (including their families be set free from internment) which were summarily ignored and even condemned by their own community. The sacrifices the men of the 442nd endured to prove their loyalty is the more ‘politically correct’ image heretofore presented to the public. In my youth I reflected upon their courage and loyalty because as a third generation Japanese American (although younger than Takei) I felt proud of this chapter in my family’s history. However, as I subsequently learned more about the “No-No Boys,” the resisters who were imprisoned for failing to answer the expected “yes,” to questions 27 and 28, I have come to embrace them as unsung heroes for upholding their personal constitutional civil liberties; they had a right to be treated fairly as Americans entitled to their freedom the same as any other draftee. The Japanese-American community at large has also sought to elevate the 63 resisters for their patriotism and integrity in refusing enlistment in the Army acknowledging they did what they felt was right as loyal cirizens.

The video of Frank Emi (one of the organizers of the Fair Play Committee resistance movement) at Heart Mountain addresses the injustice that the JACL (Japanese American Citizens League) perpetrated by conspiring with the US government to imprison the resisters because they didn’t answer questions 27 and 28 to the politically correct expectation of the government. I post some links to add to the discussion and bring the liberty and justice and fighting for principle aspect to the table.

Some notable people were interned at Heart Mountain which the last link lists by name including Norman Mineta.

Frank Emi speaks at JACL apology ceremony - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cs_IPohDyk

Sharing the story at Asian American Studies conference
www.resisters.com/tag/george-takei/

PDF Introduction to a conversation on John Okada's NO-NO BOY, THE
www.resisters.com/study/okada_no-no-boy.pdf

PBS:Conscience and the Constitution:Resistance
www.pbs.org/itvs/conscience/resistance/index.html

Heart Mountain - Japanese Internment - RootsWeb
www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wytttp/Places/Heart_Mountain/inde...

I get your point, but

If the chains on us were visible to the naked eye , it would be a lot harder to say, be positive.
I prefer to channel that anger into positive things, rather than trying to convince myself to act as if the state isn't there.

I'd rather have a bottle in front o' me than a frontal lobotomy
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By no means

Do I believe we should act like the "state isn't there", not to ignore the atrocities it often commits. But to merely hate "the state" misses the point of what "the state" really is: the manifestation of all the bad ideas your fellow citizens hold. The only way to change the state or eliminate it's wrong doing is to show people the way we *should* act toward our fellow man.

"Hate the state" only tells them you blindly hate everything the state does (even when it does good things, despite how those good things were funded), but it doesn't present any positive vision, and does nothing to advance liberty.

http://lionsofliberty.com/
*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*

another home run for Marc Clair

Thanks for continuing the positive vibe!

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

Thanks , Ed!

I much appreciate the encouragement!

http://lionsofliberty.com/
*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*

Soooooo let's stick all non whites in camps?

This will improve them?
Insanity reigns supreme. And others think we need a dictator to get things done.... As long as you agree. Unbelievable how many here hate the constitutional republic model but want to replace it with a dictator. Yeah yeah anarchists want a communal voice too. Lol

what the hell are you talking about?

It baffles me how you could so misinterpret my comment.

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus