2 votes

So what is Israel supposed to do?

First, a disclaimer: right now, Israel sucks. I'll be the first to admit that. I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, pro-Israel, and am a HUGE advocate of cutting all funding and military aid to the country.

However, the sheer fanaticism and hatred of Israel that I keep seeing is somewhat baffling; objectively, they're no worse than their neighbors, and the US is also funding several of said neighbors. I don't get the single-minded hate.

Anyway, that's actually beside the point. So you don't want Israel chucking rockets into Palestinian neighborhoods. Okay, fine, I can get behind that. I hate collateral damage no matter who's doing it (though Hamas should probably stop using neighborhoods as human shields, too), and rockets are a heck of a recipe for innocent casualties.

Here's the question: what, exactly, are the Israelis supposed to do in response to the attacks? We've agreed that counter-rockets are bad on account of collateral damage. What then?

Should they launch outright ground attacks in an attempt to clear out Hamas? Their special forces are certainly good enough to do so and keep civilian casualties to a minimum; however, I suspect the international (and anti-Israel) outcry would hit ridiculous levels.

Obviously the Israelis can't just take the rockets and suicide bombs without responding at all.

So the final option, and the one I suspect the anti-Israel fanatics want, is total capitulation to Palestine's demands.

From an objective, completely neutral standpoint, this is stupid beyond all reason. Palestinians have no more claim to the land than Israelis do - the entire freaking Middle East as we know it was basically created by Great Britain, including (GASP!) Palestine. It's not like the Israelis have some kind of ban on Arabs and Muslims, either.

So what, exactly, is Israel supposed to do in response to the rockets? The military options will be condemned, and the peaceful options are mind-numbingly stupid.



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Exactly...

They won't be happy until all of the Middle East is in ruins. They just may get their wish.

When did common sense become a super power?

Of course, I agree that is the only solution.

But, to say that the Israeli people want more death and destruction, well, I don't believe that for a minute. The Israeli people are being fed the same kind of MSN diet that Americans are fed. Once they get the truth, I believe they will be all for this solution. The problem there, just like here, is getting the truth to the people.

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

I hope you are right

I hope you are right

Gotta be honest with you, MrSingh.

Your comment about everyone in Israel being filled with such bloodlust left an impression on me. I've been trying to think of a way to better explain what I think the average Israeli is feeling. Then I remembered a movie, "Crash". Mistrust and misunderstandings lead to fear and, ultimately, violence. http://youtu.be/durNwe9pL0E (Trailer)

Once people are in the "Crash" mindset, they forget about love and compassion. One scene in particular was especially powerful. In this scene, a man who has been subjected to prejudice and loses just about everything he had, mistakenly believes another man ripped him off and he just isn't going to take it anymore. Then, reality sets in. I can't help but hope and believe Israelis and Palestinians will have that awakening, too. DO NOT MISS THIS CLIP:

“It is the food which you furnish to your mind that determines the whole character of your life.”
―Emmet Fox

I didn't say everyone. I

I didn't say everyone. I would never want to imply that.

There are brave and well hearted people in Israel. I hope this spreads and becomes a broadly accepted, national consensus. Good will within Israelis is a path to peace.

TWO WRONGS, DON'T MAKE FOR PEACE.

TWO WRONGS, DON'T MAKE FOR PEACE.

While I agree that the Israeli State is an out of control State with apartheid policies, on the other hand, the Palestinians muslims are also out of control in their own way.

The Palestinians muslims are not innocent christian Germans either. No, they gained Gaza and what did they do? They maliciously fired hundreds & hundreds of rockets into Israel cities each year. And this evil Palestinian response fits nicely into the evil zionist plans for a 'greater Israel' on the other side.

So at all times we must keep at the forefront of our minds that there is no "good side" to this conflict. Both are 100% wrong. Both are 100% guilty. We must keep in mind that each side seeks to convince us of their "victimization narrative" while the truth about their own cause in the problem is brushed aside and marginalized.

Most of all, both extremists on each side of the Israel vs Palestinians gain MORE POWER by this slow burning war between the two. Moreover, each side's general population has bought into each sides narrative of victimization and their own complete innocence. Therefore, both parties to this conflict seeing no mud in their own eye, demand "justice".

For these reasons above and many more, both sides put their collective fingers into their ears when 10 years ago the "Saudi Peace Plan" was announced. It would have recognized Israel & recognized Palestine and put an end to the violence. But that was the problem with the Saudi Peace Plan, the power structures on both sides who live & maintain their power off the victim narrative WOULD HAVE LOST POWER by going along with the Saudi Peace Plan.

Still want "Peace in the Middle East"? Then the best thing that we and 'the world" can do is help and assist NEITHER party. All military and financial aid to Israel must stop, and the same aid to the Palestinians must stop. Yes, all economic, military & humanitarian aid to BOTH SIDES, must STOP. Strange answer, but its true. By boycotting both, in a myriad of ways, "bringing both parties to their knees" via economic, social, and political ostracism is the only way to affect positive change in this situation. By staying out of it, peace wins, or at least has a fighting chance to arise. By choosing one side over the other, the conflict perpetuates.

We must recognize that both sides seek to teach "the world" their victimization narrative. They seek to supply us with facts that support their "we are 100% right, the other is 100% wrong" victim narrative.

Indeed, the rest of the world is lining up along these two factional lines. No good peace will come from doing this, in fact by choosing a side, by buying into one victimization narrative or the other, it will only INCREASE the violence that plays out.

The best solution is therefore, complete disengagement and full ostracization from BOTH parties in this dispute. Isolated and all alone, they will have only each other. Isolated and alone, they will be forced to at the very least cool their explosive war down to a simmer.

So if we want peace, the answer is, "Stay out of it" and "Isolate the two parties". Yes this is a counter intuitive answer; what libertarian solution in politics is not? Yes our human gut instinct is that one party "must be right" and the other party "must be wrong". But in this situation, the honest answer is that "they are both wrong, neither is right".

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Bump for the post, the hate against Israel is due to the muzzle

the law of bloodlines is blood feuds and vengeance, the law of liberty is constitutions and amendments.

What should Israel do?

What Israel needs is a criminal justice system to police terrorism and prosecute terrorists by giving those charged fundamental rights and substantive due process. Israel has insane wealth, yet they never chose to spend it on separating the terrorists from the people of Palestine.

Instead Israel only uses their military IDF to avenge acts of war, when they should have a domestic police force to enforce criminal laws.

Israel needs enumerated rights for terrorists so that Palestinians can join the Israelis in prosecuting the criminals and then both sides would ban together against those prosecuted and proven guilty under the law.

Israel is not supposed to commit genocide, they are suppose to bring genocide to justice.

Israel follows a supremacist movement so they should stop looking to their leaders who call for injustice and start looking for leaders like Rand Paul to build justice for both states to prosecute criminal terrorism.

Israel, if they want to be a true pillar of freedom, must hold the law of men above their talmudic law against assimilation with gentiles.

A true flower can not blossom without sunlight and a true man can not live without love.

The problem

with the premise you are making 'Palestinians have no more claim to the land than Israelis do' is slowly but surely beginning to fail the empirical evidence. The evidence isn't new, as Arthur Koestler, a devout Zionist wrote in his early 70's book 'The Thirteenth Tribe'. As a devout Zionist, he set out to write a book providing evidence the Holy Land was given to the 'Jews', but upon thorough research, the evidence didn't conclude this result, but in fact, 'Jews' had 'no' genetics to the Hebrews of the Bible. In reality, prior to the 20th Century when the Zionism theory began to forment, the majority of all religions, including followers of Judaism, knew the Jews were only cultural and/or religously tied to the Hebrews. Now, as this article in The Times of Israel, many are agreeing they aren't of Hebrew blood and desire to return to the Ukraine, where their Khazar lineage resided. However, it seems Putin might have nixed their agenda? http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/leaked-report-israel-acknowle...

Israel is an illegitimate racist colony.

They have no right to "defend itself."

End of discussion.


http://youtu.be/M9OIqy6md9w

Racist?

They are all Semites, from my understanding of geography! It is a 5000 yr old religious war and NOT OUR BUSINESS! IMHO

And Isolationists

Also.

To my Liberal Trolls:
"Really Don't mind if you sit this one out. Your words but a whisper, your deafness a shout. I may make you feel, but I can't make you think."
Ian Anderson 1972

Bump for Truth

...

Life is a sexually transmitted disease with a 100% fatality rate.
Don't Give me Liberty, I'll get up and get it myself!

so much misunderstanding

"Palestinians have no more claim to the land than Israelis do -
the entire freaking Middle East as we know it was basically created by Great Britain, including (GASP!) Palestine. It's not like the Israelis have some kind of ban on Arabs and Muslims, either."

You have much to learn about Colonial Rule. There's a large gap in understanding.

The people who lived there, have been living their for generations. They owned their land for generations, sometimes centuries. These people were Christians, Moslems, and many other smaller faiths as well. Even Jewish people were living there on their own property.

Just because their was British Rule doesn't mean everyone's a peasant to the queen. As they did in many areas of the world, the British came and left. The people were there before and after.

it is these people who were forced from their home at gunpoint, facing death... During the ethnic cleansing of 1948. So no, this is not a question of equal claim. This is a matter of theft of private property with the force of genocide.

I think its more Israeli influence in US politics

that has led to the hate against that country so people in order to get rid of what they see as bad for the USA will attack on anything bad it does to get rid of support so USA can focus more on itself. In terms of what to do, if anyone attacks them they should destroy those launching missles at them. But for peace tear down the wall and give everyone second amendment rights and than folks will be forced to live together in peace.

When the media is 100% one-sided ...

... on a topic like this, it seems reasonable that some people will ask, "What about the other side?"

As far as Israel/Palestine is concerned, it can never be one country because the Jews refuse to allow the Muslims to have a vote.

The proposal for 2 countries has been on the table for many years, but both sides refuse to allow it. Oh sure, SOME Israeli Jews say they approve of such a thing, but they have never allowed the Palestinians to actually control "their country." The United Nations has recognized the West Bank/Gaza officially as the "State of Palestine," but the United States and Israel have not. Israel locks down the West Bank and Gaza with their military. Nothing goes in or out without approval. So, Israel is not interested in real independence.

Palestinians don't really want 2 countries because they see the Jews as invaders of their land. Some Jews would be okay with 2 countries, but many do not want it, either. The Jews living in the West Bank refuse to go along, and they would rather see the Israeli government overturned and replace by more anti-Muslim people.

Even after the 3 boys were murdered, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu came out and said the Jews should put MORE settlements into the West Bank to "honor" the boys. This is not a man who has any interest in peace. If he did, he would be trying to find ways to get Jews out of the West Bank.

Not that the Palestinians want peace either, especially in Gaza. So, it remains the clusterf**k that it has been for more than 60 years.

The USA should stay the hell out, should give no foreign aid, and should demand Israel be subjected to nuclear arms inspections like everyone else.

And about those missiles lobbed from Gaza. Huh? Isn't Gaza locked down like a concentration camp? Isn't the comings and goings, including by sea, closely guarded by Israeli troops? How the hell would they get weapons to fire off in the first place? If people living in a concentration camp can easily make their own missiles, I would expect to see it all over the world. Seems strange.

Anyway, I don't give a damn about either side. They both suck. Certainly, from a libertarian perspective, Netanyahu is nowhere close to being someone interested in peace, so the Israeli government is a BIG part of the problem. Not to say the problem doesn't exist on both sides, but we can't ignore that the people with all the power are a big part of the problem.

It isn't one-sided at a, CNN called it an "Israeli offensive"...

...and it wasn't until Israel started firing back that MSM made a big deal of it... While rockets were pouring in from Gaza all last week, before Israel responded, it was back page news.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

how can you consistently hold Israel up as justiciable

when justice is in separating the criminals from the Palestinians, not lumping them together under war crimes.

Israel has plenty money to prosecute the filth from the innocent, but they choose to let Israelis believe the only justice is through war.

the law of bloodlines is blood feuds and vengeance, the law of liberty is constitutions and amendments.

A true flower can not blossom without sunlight and a true man can not live without love.

Finally some balance!

A thank you is in order! This whole 'slip is showing' on the part of certain factions on DP. The post itself is at 0, when normally a thoughtful post will get up votes. Can we set aside our differences on this issue to see the reason and logic behind the poster's statements? I don't agree with everything said, either. But a reasonable case was made.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

There seem to be more palestinians / islamist apologist

In Daily Paul seemingly.
What happened? The media biased has sparks you all confused and be all Anti-Israel and siding with the Islamist. Is that what it is or no?
It tells about the down voting and up votes when it comes to it.

What i see is Israel is confrontational and not talk behind is back and stab someone in the back.
Is Israel inhumane or what?
Has Israel uses humans as a human shield?

What about the Hamas side? Hamas is all about hush hush and pointing fingers and using palestinians as a human shield.

Well ...

... I would say that forcing a kid to drink gasoline and then burning him alive is inhumane.

I would also say that when 2 guys who are radicals, even by Hamas standards (and not liked by Hamas because of it) are accused of murder, then any government employees who respond to that by murdering dozens of innocent people, many of them children, are a bunch of inhumane monsters, as well.

So, yeah, there's a lot of inhumane to go around.

The two people who murdered

The two people who murdered those 3 kids, should be tried and put to death. Those murders were not committing a planned attack on behalf of any group. What they did pushes the Palestinians 100 steps backwards, and every Palestinian knows this.

Instead of punishing the murderers, you have a bloodthirsty nation obsessed with revenge, seeking to kill as many Arabs as possible. You also have a national government that enhances and promotes this hatred every opportunity they get. You have organized mass murder.

so again to the original post, there is nothing equal about this situation.

The Zionist Story

Thank you for this excellent Documentary

There is mud in both eyes today. There is no "good guy" in this.

Today the Israel vs Palistinian situation/struggle/war reminds of this Star Trek episode called "The Cloud Minders" where one people lives above another and the people below seek its destruction http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysjYoL-F3r4 .....and it also reminds me of this one "Let this be your last battlefield" where upon each seek to propagandize their own victim narrative and even take over the ship (the USA?). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kuufdY9M-E

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Before I read the rest of the OP

Examples of fanaticism and hatred, please. I missed them.

Reply

You need to understand the history. No, Israel does not have equal claim over the land. Israel has been continually encroaching on the drawn borders from the 70's. It's a military occupation that routinely destroys homes and kills civilians. The Palestinians are fighting for their homes, Israel is fighting to destroy them. The State of Israel itself is a violation of the Geneva convention as the land was taken from the Palestinians by the British and given to the "Israelis". After the creation of Israel they fought, Israel won, and then continued the massacre of the Palestinians for generations. It's Genocide, plain and simple.......I would really hope people on this forum actually spend some time doing their research.

exactly.

.

David in a wheelchair and Goliath in a tank.

From what bits and pieces I comprehend, Israel’s manifesto is to have perpetual enemies. This is a strategy to keep the country strong, falsify the truth to the people and the world to get pity and support. This is in the revised addition of the Talmud (If I'm not mistaken). It's not the 10% Hebrew Semites we're up against, It's the 90% non-Semite Kazarian Ashkenazi’s we're battling.
As we all know, like Al-Qaeda being created by the CIA, the Kazarians created Hamas (I think) to fight the PLO. In my books, it appears Hamas is a controlled opposition. The type of missiles being fired from Palestine into Israel has but little more impact than a high end potato gun. All they do is punch holes into structures without explosives. It’s mostly home-made devices.
Without a doubt it’s a five foot David in a wheel chair up against a thirty foot Goliath in a tank and then some.

Enjoy the ride.

George Washington used

George Washington used unconventional fighting methods against a superior force, so as the saying goes, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

What should Israel do? Give the Palestinians their own nation and stop fencing them in the world's largest concentration camps. Do you really think Israel wants them to have their own nation and army next door? Nope, they want to keep them down.

Imagine how America would deal with the problem of ...

Native Americans, who lived here before Europeans came here, if disease hadn't conveniently killed most of them.

Before 1492, only Native Americans lived in the western hemisphere. We're immigrants here! Our colonization here was greatly aided by nine out of ten natives dying from exposure to western diseases. After that, genocide of the native populations was easy. The ignoring of more than 400 treaties and settlements with natives was hardly even significant then. My point is that our colonization and occupation of America was far easier than Israel's. Our native population just died. The Palestinians didn't.

During WWII, American only accepted some 200,000 refugees from Europe. We could have accepted far more. Consider, for a moment, how enriched this country would have been had we been more generous then in the Jewish Nation's greatest hour of need. See (http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/american-response...). The New York Times covered the entire holocaust,... in two inch stories buried deep within it's pages. Anyone who bothered to search for such stories would have been informed about the murderous horror being perpetrated across the European continent. My point is we could have helped more then. We didn't. So in response, the Jewish survivors sought their own sovereign homeland where they could stand upon this globe without fear of another holocaust where their people were being hunted to extinction yet again.

Try to imagine what America would be like today if half of the modern population were Native Americans still intent on getting their own sovereign country back from us foreign invaders (http://israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.resource.php?resou...). Are Jewish deaths to be acknowledged only? (http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/deaths.html)

My principle point is that Israel is trying to reassert a two thousand year claim in response to a holocaust that the rest of the world knew of while it was happening and deliberately chose to do nothing about which we could have done, at the time, very easily, by letting more Jewish refugees in. Now there is modern Israel, where a minority of Jews and Palestinians are willing to live in peace, but a majority regard the other as rabid, unclean, dogs, that they want OUT of THEIR country.

I want the Israel Jews to prosper in peace.
I want the Palestinian Arabs to prosper in peace.

But it is NOT our decision. It's theirs.

Ron Paul wanted to assert a policy of disengagement with the Israel/Palestinian conflict,.... and was repeatedly rebuked by his fellow Republicans for it, who repeatedly stated, "I like Ron Paul,... except for his foreign policy stance on Israel." In my opinion, Rand Paul is trying to find another way to advance his father's policy while maintaining credibility with the Republican base. Our middle eastern policies are all a mess which advance no ones causes. We are NOT helping the Israelis, Palestinians, Iraqis, Iranians, Syrians, Pakistanis, Afghans, Indians,....

Let us do something useful to everyone...
AND JUST MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS... LEAVE ALREADY!

"The dearest ambition of a slave is not liberty, but to have a slave of his own."
Sir Richard Burton

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

They have the means to send

They have the means to send these people a world of prosperity and instead they send them death.