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What would "securing the border" look like?


Image source: cdlib.org

Searching Youtube for "Border Patrol Checkpoint" returns over 60,000 results. While many of the hits could possibly be unrelated, scanning the first twenty pages demonstrates that Americans are quickly becoming opponents of the Nazi style checkpoints where border agents often become perturbed if victims wish not to "show their papers." With all the lobbying for "securing the borders" as of late, this realization begs the question - What would "securing the borders" look like?

There's little doubt that, if immigration reform were to be passed by K Street's leashed DC puppies, bolstering of "border security" would be at the top of the list. Along with the addition of large numbers of personnel living off the public dole that would be hired to carry out the treachery, the united States would also likely find itself locked inside a barbed wire cage where sentry towers are a common site. I have a sneaking suspicion that the military will be involved as well. If one were to paint a picture of "The Land of the Free," I doubt it would look like this:

To achieve their distopian dream, the demagogues are screaming at full volume. They are even pushing a story that dead babies are washing ashore. If that story happens to be true (which I doubt - as no source is given in the orginal article), I wouldn't be surprised if some of the higher-ups of the Red Party personally drove down to the Rio Grande to drown a few to help make it believable. Demagogues are only concerned with pushing their own agendas.

How do you suppose the everyday lives of the people who live along the borders would be affected by the occupation "securing the borders" would entail? How do you suppose travel through the border regions would change? How do you suppose the new "border security" would be used in the event the economy of the united States plunged to its death, and people attempted a mass exodus? How long would it be before a foreign leader said - "Mr. President, tear down that wall!"?

One thing is for sure, if the number of videos on Youtube regarding border checkpoints is any indication of the level of dissatisfaction on the part of the People, the "border security" already in place seems rather unpopular.

Don't trust the State to "secure the border." If more unconstitutional checkpoints and militarized borders are what you want, that's what you'll get. Truly, they don't give a damn about immigration - unless it can serve their interests. Trusting the State to do so is akin to a lady going on a second date with a man that raped her the first time around but, somehow, expecting not to get raped again.

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Living with the border issues is not a philosphic exercise.

I live near Tucson Arizona. The Santa Rita Mountains 30 minutes south of Tucson (where I took my kids camping and picnicking 20 years ago) are completely overrun by drug and human smugglers. The forestry department posts signs warning that the area is dangerous and no one goes there without packing a weapon anymore. Folks living around Arivaca are moving out because of the nightly shootings of smugglers robbing and killing each other. The Ranchers are threatened and their land trashed. Their homes are robbed and sometimes they are assaulted or murdered. Sonoita, Elgin and Patagonia are no longer quiet ranching communities. In Cochise County Naco, Bisbee, and Douglas have been in crisis for 30 years. Even Fort Huachuca Army base in Sierra Vista cannot or will not stop the streams of drug couriers and human traffickers from moving through it.

In Tucson whole neighborhoods are taken over by gangs and the drug cartels. The cops cruise the arterials issuing traffic tickets and stay out of the neighborhoods. They won't even respond to a business being burglarized. They just mail you a police report form. Most neighborhood parks are largely empty. They are so dangerous the residents won't let their kids play there. The costs of public services for illegals is bankrupting local hospitals, school districts, and local governments. Tucson is now the 6th poorest city in the US with one of the highest crime rates in the US.

None of this is Fox hyperbole. It is a daily reality here.

To be fair not all of Tucsons problems are border problems. Much of it is due to a progressive democrat local government that wants to be San Francisco in the desert but has actually become Detroit in the desert. But much of the problems are directly linked to the Border.

And it is true that most of these problems are actually created by US government policies. Drug Cartels, smugglers, gang drug violence etc are the result of prohibition, and the Feds do arm the Cartels (i.e. Fast and Furious). Welfare benefits do create incentives for people to come here, and our own government is encouraging illegal immigration. etc. etc. etc.

Southern Arizona is NOT an anti-hispanic area. I know people here with Spanish land grant property dating back to the late 1600's! But even most of the Hispanics have had it with the "open border".

My point is that it is easy to make the immigration and border issues a libertarian thought exercise and debate it philosophically. But when you live with the chaos, the crime, and live in a community almost collapsing under the strain of those issues it is a practical issue. When your home is invaded and your family threatened it is not a philosophical debate. We MUST secure the border. We MUST have control of immigration. We MUST eliminate the government policies that incentivise the immigration crisis.

Incidentally I do business in Mexico and Central America. For the most part these are not poor countries. Mexico is a very wealthy and cosmopolitan country. But they are very corrupt countries run by oligarchs so most people live in poverty and a few live in extreme wealth and power. They are where we will be in the not too distant future. The Mexican government encourages migration into the US as a safety valve to prevent another revolution there. The US Government also encourages it as a stealth revolution (by the government against its people) here.

How would we close the borders?

Build a bigger wall? Send the Army and treat it like a war? Give the Sheriff more resources?

Thanks for your perspective. You seem to understand the situation and liberty concerns.

Real solutions are actually simple.

Practical solutions that could be implemented before achieving the libertarian utopia we dream of include:

1) Finish the border fence. Fences do make for good neighbors. Everyplace the fence has been completed has drastically reduced the drug and human traffickers coming across the border. It also reduces the flow of individuals crossing over and dieing in the desert.

2) Move the border patrol to the border. When they apprehend an illegal they should immediately put them back across.

3) Create a viable guest worker program for agricultural and lower skill workers as has been done in the past - and enforce it with criminal prosecutions for overstaying ones visa.

But these simple solutions are impractical as long as our government is actually creating this crisis to undermine our liberties. Border checkpoints 50-100 miles from the border are not meant to apprehend illegals any more than TSA screenings are meant to catch terrorists. They are intended to intimidate and cow Americans. DHS spends more manpower auditing small business I-9 Employment Eligibility forms to issue fines for using last years form that is identical to this years form except the blocks are spaced 1/64 of an inch different, or signing them on the wrong line, as they do deporting illegals. The Federal government sues States for refusing to give welfare to illegals or for demanding proof of citizenship for benefits.

The Feds are not actually concerned about "illegals taking jobs." They want them dependent on Welfare. Just like they want us all to be dependent on them. These benefits create incentives that drives a lot of the individual immigration. This can be observed first hand at the WIC offices and birthing clinics where policy is nurses will be fired for asking about immigration status.

The "war on drugs" creates profits for the Cartels who are in bed with the Federal Government and the Banksters. I don't think I need to explain this further.

But it is imperative to understand that much of the problems with the insecure border is that the "immigration border crisis" is just cover for the drug smugglers, gun runners, and selling kids into the sex trade. The practical reality is Open Borders = re instituting slavery.

Agree with number 2 especially.

Are guest workers paid as much as an American worker? If we want to keep a minimum wage this is only fair.

Another thing I notice regarding government health and welfare is the obvious targeting of welfare recipients with birth control and vaccines. I see this personally even in family-friendly Texas. This should be a wake up for us. Welfare means extermination.

How does one go about "securing the border?"

Pretty much every problem you pointed out is black market related due to the drug war - as you said. The environment you speak of is probably not unlike 1920's Chicago.

Nonetheless, how does one go about "securing the border?"

Gallup has the border flood as top problem @ Drudge

as I type. (Walls to keep us in under the pretext of keeping them out?

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Bingo. Also, what the DPer

Bingo. Also, what the DPer below said: check points. Which will start in border lands and encroach inward all over. Brought to you by identification programs and, of course, drones.

As I've told many people including a family member of mine: There are three avenues tyranny comes in on:

1) convenience
2) entertainment
3) safety, security, protection

Good grief. Flying robots -- drones. First in the Middle East, the testing ground, then in dense lands, one being the United States. Sickening.

Reader, you don't believe wares seller Amazon.com's involvement in drones for delivery is for convenience, do you? Phase one comes before phase two. Phase one, phase two, phase three and so on.

Reader, you don't suppose it's chance there are books on the parts comprising phases, events, as if their causes are isolated and capricious, that, really, there is no connection from one epoch to another epoch about economics centralization and its consequence, bondage, do you?

My previous two paragraphs aren't to you, Libera. They're to any reader. They're meant to provoke thought, to look for dots and discover whether they're connected. They're for hosts of any media to dispose of banality and myopia in their views of history, leaving them pursuing what matters even if it makes them uncomfortable and provides them less income, truth.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton Forest Dutton, MD, in his 1916 book whose subject is origin (therefore what all healing methods involve and count on), simple and powerful.

Those checkpoints people

Those checkpoints people complain about are not on the border; they're 50 to 100 miles north of it. It makes impossible to travel sideways, for example from Yuma to Sierra Vista (both in AZ) without hitting those checkpoints at least once, sometimes more like 3 or 4 times. That is not protecting the border.

The people who actually live on the border, Yuma, Douglas, Nogales, etc, suffer greatly from the destruction, theft and threats (not to mention occasional murders) caused by those crossing the border. There are no border guards there, and if you have the audacity to complain it's quickly made apparent that nobody gives a flying-f about you, your property or your rights. It's an extremely hostile environment.

They way it is now sucks, yes, it's nothing more than an excuse to revenue collect and harass people. But the way it is now has nothing to do with closing the border or protecting American citizens.

Symptoms of the Drug War...

Law enforcement is a local issue. It was never meant to be handled at the federal level. However, drug money has likely bought off many of the officials in the more affected areas.

The sooner drug prohibition is ended, the sooner all the violence of the Black Market will subside.

No one's prohibiting you from

No one's prohibiting you from creating, doing or selling drugs -- if you're doing it for someone besides yourself, say, for the structure built by, up, around and for the State. Drug prohibition isn't the problem if you serve the State and its partners. But prohibition is a problem if you're doing it for yourself. Beware the word prohibition. From one of two views on prohibition, it's dangerous: It's the prelude to legalization.

Legalization, the operation of a thing in legality, or law, produces industry, that is, a supply chain often whose reach is large compared to operations outside law wholy or partially. A component of industry is monopoly (there's no way around it). About drugs, decriminalization of them is where society was entirely not long ago and is in mostly, still.

When the individual can make drug x without permission from the State (which society is moving away from because of legalization, that is, indenturism which leads to slavery) and from anyone not interacting with him voluntarily, he will reap what he sows -- prosperity or loss -- showing that his control is where it can only be, on him, rather than on things in addition to him, say, on society.

Evidence of legalization is the structure of the subject. The structure is stores, hospitals, clinic, schools and so forth. Their owners and operators accept license. This activity, licensure, spreads the subject and is the handing over of quality control, or for all intents and purposes the making of the drug, to the licence issuer, here to the State. This handing over is the indenturing of the owners and operators to the structure, becoming another brick in the wall or if not it then a brick in a new wall. Either wall, same outcome: a controller of society, an enslaver of society.

Decriminalization is what you want.

School's fine. Just don't let it get in the way of thinking. -Me

Study nature, not books. -Walton Forest Dutton, MD, in his 1916 book whose subject is origin (therefore what all healing methods involve and count on), simple and powerful.

Since we're on the border subject...

I've noticed along the backroads and ATV trails and such approximately where the border should be, you occasionally encounter these red lasers about 2 feet off the ground. They very much remind me of the lasers they used to have in store doorways that count the people entering or leaving, except these go for miles (but aren't everywhere, just in pockets). You can't see them unless they're shining right on something, like your leg. Anyone have any idea what these are?

If I had to venture a guess...

I would say you are correct. They likely monitor traffic across the border.

They're called photo-gates. One can do a lot of things with them. We used them quite a bit when I was taking undergraduate physics labs.

Ohh thank you so much for the

Ohh thank you so much for the name. I've tried to research them in the past but didn't find much with 'red laser thingies'. :P

Now my research can begin again. Thank you!

Hey!

I thought you were taking a break from all this drama ? ;)

Well glad you didn't, as this is the same fear I have, and the same imagery when I hear people screaming for "border security"

In a free society there would certainly be a need for bored security, but it would be borders defined by private property, not the arbitrary claims of governments over vast swaths of land.

http://lionsofliberty.com/
*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*

I saw this border propaganda firing up...

and figured I should stand up against it.

Still want to chat on your radio show sometime?

Open invite

You've got an open invitation - drop me an email and we can try to work something out for next month?

http://lionsofliberty.com/
*Advancing the Ideas of Liberty Daily*

The debate on the labor pool is a side show distraction

The debate on the welfare state is a distraction.

There is too much labor in this country already and the welfare state is broke so forget even having those silly arguments.

People - you are being invaded. Plain and simple.

Where are poor people getting the money to pay the Mexican cartels for passage?
Why are these people being allowed to enter the interior without so much as basic health screening? Background check? Fingerprinted? Id'd?
Why are they being kept in compounds on military bases with zero press access?
Why are they then being moved in groups to random places around the country?

They are importing an army plain and simple.

Remember people - we only had 185000 troop in Iraq - and we held the entire country.

They are bringing in hundreds of thousands, many who are already allied with the tens of thousands of gang members in this country.

That is a formidable force people.

Now back to your question of border security.
Dont need a fence, dont need a wall, we can just put some of our vast military on the border.

How's this. We declare a no fly zone, then patrol that no fly zone with fighter jets - very low - like right off the deck low. We then make an example of one or two cartel gatherings on the other side of the border using missiles form the jets.

That will slow them down tremendously. There are very few things on a battlefield more intimidating than fighter jets flying overhead at very low altitude firing off missiles.

But we dont have the balls to do it.

Too much labor?

That's just another way of saying the economy is crap.

Where are poor people getting the money to pay the Mexican cartels for passage?

Perhaps, they save up until they can afford to make the journey hoping for a good return on investment.

Why are these people being allowed to enter the interior without so much as basic health screening? Background check? Fingerprinted? Id'd?

The word "illegally" implies that they're intentionally trying to avoid contact with "authorities."

Why are they being kept in compounds on military bases with zero press access?

I don't watch the propaganda machine. So, perhaps you could provide a credible source for that information.

Why are they then being moved in groups to random places around the country?

Who knows. But, the State is pretty effective at wasting money.

They are importing an army plain and simple.

This is a long leap to take. I don't buy it. Have any sources?

... we can just put some of our vast military on the border.

So, you do want to militarize the border. Where will those people sleep? What will they drive? Who will pay their paychecks? What affect will their presence have on local populations? Do you suppose there will be militarized checkpoints on top of the border patrol checkpoints already present?

We then make an example of one or two cartel gatherings on the other side of the border using missiles form the jets.

So, you support airstrikes along the US-Mexico border? How about we turn the US-Canada border into a war zone too? Maybe we could lobby the murdering thieves to establish a Korean style DMZ along the border as well.

As for drug cartels, end drug prohibition. Easy.

You're full of it, and you know you're full of it.

Several downvotes but still no argument against what I said...

It's because it's the truth.

If someone is handing out free stuff

and someone else is taking it, who's the dummy?

Good post, dwalters! We also need to eradicate the minimum wage which creates a black market for labor.

but until we can stop the free stuff...

... which I think we can all agree is way down the line, we can not allow a major immigration dump into the US. This immigration influx is a politically manufactured scheme to take us one step further into the North American Union, and eventually a one world government. I don't believe everything that Alex Jones has to say, but he's spot on with this current situation... it's called a false flag, but this time, instead of it being a terrorist or military attack, it's opening the boarders and flooding the country (which is bankrupt) with new welfare recipients who we can't possibly support (and who will get drivers licenses and voting cards). I'm all for open boarders, with one exception, which would be health screenings, IF we had a free market economy. But the fact is, we're a outright welfare state and we're bankrupt.

Maybe this will overwhelm the free stuff and force us to stop

giving the free stuff - thus going back to PRIVATE and VOLUNTARY charity.

I have no issue with the entire North American continent (or even the entire Western Hemisphere) being under one government - but it should be made up of individual states as parties to the AoC and Constitution - not another layer on top of what we already have.

That is, offering statehood to the rest of the continent and hemisphere is fine by me, and if probably long overdue.

What should the government do?

...

Wouldn't it be easier to stop welfare

than patrol the 11,000 miles of borders and coastlines?

Nah, he's just another fake

Nah, he's just another fake libertarian that wants a massive government entity, in this case a militarized border zone OH THE IRONY, for something that should be a non issue for any real libertarian.

Dey tuk er jerbs! LOL

"In reality, the Constitution itself is incapable of achieving what we would like in limiting government power, no matter how well written."

~ Ron Paul, End the Fed

Do you trust the united States Central Government?

...

Just curious... What made you choose your screen name?

Simply a redhead?

no free stuff and fines

Stop the free stuff and fine the skin off of anyone hiring illegal liens. That would, by itself dry up the demand for cheaper foreign labor and probably be more effective than building high tech fences. There would still be the occasional drug runner, gang activity, and maybe terrorist and WMD trafficking to be concerned about but by ending most of the demand for foreign labor, our border patrol would be freed up to focus on these more more threatening characters.

Huh?

There would still be the occasional drug runner, gang activity, and maybe terrorist and WMD trafficking...

All of the things you listed are symptoms of other problems - namely, the Drug War and interventionism.

WMD trafficking? Really?