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13 Israeli soldiers & nearly 100 Palestinian civilians killed, in battle over suburb of Gaza City

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-soldiers...

"The Israeli military suffered one of its worst combat days on Sunday, with the death of at least 13 troops in battle and an unconfirmed claim from Hamas that it had kidnapped a soldier inside Gaza."

"IDF soldiers encountered a sophisticated, disciplined, brave, highly trained and well-equipped army of militants, he said. "We have to admit we were facing good fighters, very well equipped with sophisticated weapons systems, accurate weapons, heavy weapons including mortars, booby traps. It was very difficult fighting," he said. "It's very difficult for us to surprise them. They were simply waiting for us.""

"Most of the Hamas fighters had been trained in Iran, he said. "We can trace the methods," he said, referring to the tactics of embedding into densely-populated areas for protection. "We've seen the same with Hezbollah [in Lebanon].""

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-soldiers...

And despite Israeli warnings for days to Gaza citizens to flee in foresight of Israeli offensive, nearly 100 more civilians were killed during the fierce fighting today alone.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-soldiers...

"(Israel's) decision to give advance warning to civilians in Gaza of impending operations gave a clear indication to Hamas of Israel's military intentions. Leaflets and text messages had given the residents of Shujai'iya at least two days' warning to leave their homes by a specific deadline, with instructions about which streets marked a safe area, the source said.

"They didn't leave because of threats from Hamas," he said. "So many civilian casualties is bad but that's what Hamas wanted us to face, the civilian human shield."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-soldiers...



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Draft 'em

Draft more orthodox Jews into the IDF. Thin their ranks. That might get them thinking. They're not too keen on fighting their own wars.

New developments amid the violence:

Israel has become a no-fly zone at least temporarily:
Bloomberg horrified, vows to fly to Israel to prove a point...
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/mike-bloomberg-israel-...

Politico cites an Israeli general who claims Netanyahu has purposefully sabotaged any peace deal since 2009:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/07/israel-provok...

American Jewish organization J Street decides to reject pro-Israel rally citing that the event is too one-sided:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/j-street-explains-pullout-from-...

Hamas leader compares Netanyahu to Hitler on CNN Wolf Blitzer:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-likens-netanyahu-to-hitle...

13 Israeli soldiers - 0 Hamas soldiers - 100 Palestinian Citizen

Wow that is a good record for Hamas, they should have the IDF cleaned out of soldiers in no time.

The Hamas deaths are included in the civilian casualties...

...at least they were in the count leading up to yesterday's fighting. Thank the left-wing media for that. But their "estimates" were that 1/4 of the civilian casualties were Hamas militants. I believe it much higher than that. But we have to rely on IDF accounts of number of militants killed, as Hamas lists all their deaths, as civilian casualties.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

I am still quite perplexed

as to why Gaza was given up in the first place. I remember that day - people were removed from there homes (can you imagine that happening to you?)- I remember the predictions that tunnels would be dug, rockets would be flung, the trouble would be that much closer to Jerusalem.

Exactly what is transpiring this very day.

Why was this agreed to? It was an insane and suicidal decision.

Gives me great pause.

[I am not debating who should live in this land...I already know the answer to that.]

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul

Which time Gaza was given up?

When the Brits tried to engage an ill-advised plan to divide Palestine among ethnic groups after a power split agreement with the French some years earlier over the middle east?

Or do you mean the Kadima withdrawal by Sharon? Sharon's move had backdoor deals written all over it.

It also cancels Hamas's claim of moral high ground since they cannot argue any sort of aggression which would be defensible in any way.

Unfortunately since Israel was the aggressor in this action, based on speculation that Hamas may have been responsible for the kidnapping and murder of the 3 Israeli teens, Gaza does have some sympathy in the world from many quarters.

The original airstrikes by Israel have provocated a needless spiral of continuing violence, though Hamas in the past has been equally guilty of this.

It may turn out that Israel was correct in that Hamas was complicit in the murders, but certainly any aggression should have been precluded by a thorough investigation.

Consider that at the end of this current violence cycle more than 1,000 people will have been killed.

Over 4 people killed? (3 Israelis, 1 Palestinian)

And what will the action accomplish? The same thing it always accomplishes.
-Both sides become more extreme
-Great social hatred and racism between the groups
-Greater lobbying to America & other significant powers
-More 'aid' (aid being weapons flooding into the region, as always)

I believe Ariel Sharon had a path to lasting peace that was cut short just as it began before he was assassinated by right wing settlers much as Rabin.

I think Avigdor Lieberman would be Israel's current best shot to achieve lasting peace. Netanyahu is all about maintaining the status quo, whatever the cost.

Israel decolonized Gaza, but

Israel decolonized Gaza, but maintained its occupation and blockade of Gaza.

To paraphrase, reorient, and

To paraphrase, reorient, and expand on the words of Pope Francis (http://www.visnews-en.blogspot.it/2014/07/pope-francis-terro...) we need to mourn more. We tend to set the Gaza lives destroyed aside, not to come to terms with the factual history, with sufferings generated therefrom, with things that could have been beautiful but were not. For this reason, it is so difficult for us to find the path to justice, to settle the debt that this tragedy has contracted with society. Along with my closeness, along with my prayers for all the victims, whether Israeli or Palestinian, today I wish to add my desire for justice to be done. May God bless you all, institutions and families. And may God give peace to those who died in this act of lunacy. ... I too wish for justice to be done, and it starts in the hearts of the combatants.

I would say that anti-semitism is on the rise worldwide

It seems especially so during these Gaza incursions. Two synagogues firebombed in France and they are protesting again.

Despite this, Abe Foxman is too busy chastizing Gary Oldman to notice, and Alan 'the Douche' Dershowitz is calling for Netanyahu to use even heavier force (as though this has ever worked before, somehow it will work this time Dersh?)

The front page of Haaretz is a mess, clearly mirroring the geo-political situation.

Israel needs a new way. Netanyahu's strategy (heavy propaganda, reactive) and their long term current strategy is not working. It is an eventual lose situation (as my former Croatian chess teacher use to lecture me in his broken English)

Behind closed doors, almost every leader has been caught calling Netanyahu two-faced, or a liar, or worse.

Even the best propaganda can't cover bad policy. There are new ways for Israel to move forward, to progress. I think the current government has become dazzled by its own propaganda machine, and has lost the ability to think ahead of events.

Yes, anti Semitism toward non

Yes, anti Semitism toward non Jewish Semites.

That is not rising

Despite propaganda, that is actually failing.

Anti-semitism towards Jews is rising dramatically, and it is undeniably blowback to Israeli policy on the Palestinian territories.

France has huge Muslim immigrant population...

So maybe... ya think...
But you're right, and France wasn't much good against the Nazis either.

Abe Foxman? ADL right? Yeah.
Task-Master. Really more of a useful idiot, actually, I think.
They believe in these social(ist) causes but get up-tight if they think you're singling out Them. Of course they'll label all kinds of other world-views and outlooks "hate groups". So he's a Jewish guy we happen not to care for. Not really trending anti-Semitism, just a guy with thin skin.

Haaretz is just one paper. But, I don't think they've been all that horrible during this conflict, the few times I've checked over there. Actually they're quite sympathetic to he Palestinian civilians' plight.

As for Netanyahu, I'm really not sure how Netanyahu could be any more earnest about Israeli military goals and intentions. Did you hear his speeches about going into Gaza, taking it back, why and how and then what, etc., etc.?

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

13 Died For The Good

Iron Dome.


http://youtu.be/n_GFN3a0yj0

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

The occupiers and colonists

The occupiers and colonists you mean.

Considering the Shia/Sunni rift

It's unlikely Iran has much to do with Hamas. Hezbollah certainly, but Hamas is the Saudis/Qatar/Muslim Brotherhood/ISIS side of things.

Ah, and that reminds me of the 11 billion shipment of arms we are sending to Qatar. Would expect ISIS and Hamas to be big beneficiaries of that shipment.

Because we all know how well USG can control where military hardware ends up lol.

Hezbollah backs Hamas...

Hezbollah smuggles in gear, militants, weapons, food, etc., to Gaza...
Hezbollah are backed by Iran, so at the least Iran indirectly supports Hamas.

I +1'd your comment though, because you are definitely right about how our US foreign "Aid", including (and especially) arms shipments, goes to support our "enemies" and our "allies'" enemies.

Like I keep saying, it's all about the globalists' through their corporatist controlled MIC, keeping the conflict going so they can profit, and direct the geo-political chaos towards World Government.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

We already have a world

We already have a world government...and its headquarters are in NY.

Ironic, isn't it?

Never be afraid to ask simple questions.

One can also use your argument to state that

The US supports Hamas.(aid) Israel supports Hamas.(distributed monies)

It renders the statement Iran indirectly supports Hamas meaningless if you catch my drift.

I +1'd your whole topic, a Guardian article is usually a great starting point for intelligent debate ;)

absolutely

...about US aid... Israel tries to make sure the aid gets to the people, and they can do better job of that as they are right there, obviously, but yes, much of it unfortunately ends up profiting the ends of Hamas. I don't think Israel (at least most people, maybe a NWO globalist faction) intend on this going to Hamas, but they are constantly under international pressure to send "aid" to ease the "poor Palestinians".

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't by the left-wing media, on Israel. The US has no business sending aid to either side.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Especially when you got to

Especially when you got to borrow, or make the dollar even less valuable by printing more, to buy the aid to begin with.

One point should also be noted...

...that we never seem to get an account of the number of Hamas militants killed.

That is because the number of Palestinian deaths, at least in the death count prior to today's operations, has included the Hamas militants.

So the number of militants among todays 100 killed may be significant.
Of the nearly 230 Gazans killed prior to today, media estimates were that roughly 1/4 of the deaths were militants. My personal feeling is it is likely higher than that.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Palestinian militants have

Palestinian militants have just as much right to kill their oppressors as did we the British.

I'm growing tired of your Islamist-supremism... Kill Jews...

...Is what you're saying.

20% of Israel's citizen population is Arab Muslim, many serve in the IDF, dropping bombs on radical Muslims trying to kill them for daring to live alongside "infidels".

How do radical-Muslims, like Hamas, treat non-Muslims though?! They behead them! Crucify them! And we have shills on DP, who support "dhimma", and actually argue that it is practical and just.

Hey Iconoclast, read the Bible.

Israel is forever the homeland of the Jewish people.

An army of foreign Muslim invaders fought to steal/conquer the land from the Romans, who stole/conquered it from the JEWS ORIGINALLY! It was the Romans who named it 'Palestine'. The Jews, after the holocaust which you deny, conquered it BACK! Back to the RIGHTFUL owners of the land! Divine Providence!

Muslims have lived there for a fraction of the time Jews have lived there. For thousands and thousands of years Jews have called the land of Israel their spiritual homeland, and never stopped knowing the land as it's true name, Israel.
That's why the place was an empty desert, producing little fruit until the Jews returned, and the country blossomed again, just as the Bible said would happen.

So forget the Iconoclast, one who attacks established religion (as long as it's other than Islam), and your BULLSHIT about "oppressors".

Who is stoning their little girls to death for refusing arranged marriages to crusty old Muslim men?
Islamist Oppressors.

BTW, go ahead and try to say about Palestine, and the Romans, that that was a long time ago, and this is today. Don't even try it. Because it was 1948 that Israel was re-established. It's now 2014, and the Israeli state is well established, well into it's new generations. But the Islamists are still fighting to drive Jews off the land, not for their "rightful native homeland". They don't live there, haven't for generations.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

wow...

Fox News is certainly not improving your critical thinking ability, and your seeming lack of moral compass does not speak well for your "Bible"

And I am sick of your vicious

And I am sick of your vicious anti Semitism toward non Jewish Semites. And oh yeah, your OT God can go to hell!

Israel is forever the homeland of the Jewish people?

Really?

I don't read it that way.

Israel is the homeland of the chosen people.

If you are Christian, then you would be the chosen people. If you were Christian then you would read Romans 11.

Do you really think that God sent his Son to earth and those that rejected him are still the chosen people, while those jews that followed him and became Christians are NOT the chosen people?

Wow!

Slow down... I didn't say ONLY the Jewish people...

...whereas Islam says ONLY Islam, and definitely no Jews.

As a Messianic, I believe Yeshua the Messiah came to graft all those who will believe in Him and His Father, into the fold.

There was no need for you to extrapolate, and make all those assumptions beyond what I simply stated.

"Those that rejected Him"? Think maybe you're being just a little bit collectivist? Bible says "For the sake of the REMNANT shall My people be blessed"... The Messianic movement is growing by leaps and bounds in Israel today.

And in case you forgot, the "early Church" was all Jews. All Yeshua's followers were Jews. There were no "Christians" yet at the time, only Jews and pagans. Modern Christianity is heavily influenced with paganism. Sunday worship. Ishtar. Decorating trees, Saturn Claus...

As for Christians in Israel, and I am a Christian, Christians are of course more than welcome in Israel. Thousands and thousands of Christians visit Israel every year, and many live there annually.

Muslims are also welcome, as 20% of Israel's citizen population is Muslim.

But is the G-d given homeland to the Jews, for the sake of the Remnant, and that is in your Bible. Doesn't mean it can't be other people's home. It just means it's always home to the Jewish people.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Dancing in Circles

I'm not sure why you're dancing around here.

The jews in israel are the jews that rejected God's son. I'm not judging them, but you cannot be a Christian and say that the modern day jews are God's chosen people. At best you can say they were. Paul makes this very clear in Romans. The gentiles are grafted on, the jews who rejected Christ were pruned from the tree.

That aside - yes Israel is a country of religious freedom and tolerance.

But don't promote the crazy Christian Zionist error.

Ok, you're now being unreasonable and picking fight...

Keep leaving the words "Jew" lower-cased while capitalizing "Christian". It just shows your disrespect.

I've already told you that Messianic Judaism is growing like crazy in Israel. I mentioned the Remnant.

I'm not promoting any "crazy Christan Zionist error". Those are all words you're trying to put in my mouth, and I told you that's not what I meant. You can choose to reject G-d's chosen people, the Remnant, the people who stay loyal to His Commandments, for something a few elite task-masters and the Romans did 2000 years ago. Yitzhak Kaduri, the most highly renowned and respected Rabbi of his time, on his death bed at the age of 118, said he discovered the name of the Messiah, and he would reveal the name... His message was: Y E H O S H U A

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Kaduri

"For the sake of the Remnant"

You can keep your beliefs, but don't knock mine!

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

No disrespect just being contetious

If you look I generally do not capitalize.

That said I don't really understand messianic Judism. Ill have to readup on it. But I was poking at a contradiction I hear often from fundimentalist christian zionists. Sorry if that is not your position.

Peace