10 votes

13 Israeli soldiers & nearly 100 Palestinian civilians killed, in battle over suburb of Gaza City

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-soldiers...

"The Israeli military suffered one of its worst combat days on Sunday, with the death of at least 13 troops in battle and an unconfirmed claim from Hamas that it had kidnapped a soldier inside Gaza."

"IDF soldiers encountered a sophisticated, disciplined, brave, highly trained and well-equipped army of militants, he said. "We have to admit we were facing good fighters, very well equipped with sophisticated weapons systems, accurate weapons, heavy weapons including mortars, booby traps. It was very difficult fighting," he said. "It's very difficult for us to surprise them. They were simply waiting for us.""

"Most of the Hamas fighters had been trained in Iran, he said. "We can trace the methods," he said, referring to the tactics of embedding into densely-populated areas for protection. "We've seen the same with Hezbollah [in Lebanon].""

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-soldiers...

And despite Israeli warnings for days to Gaza citizens to flee in foresight of Israeli offensive, nearly 100 more civilians were killed during the fierce fighting today alone.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-soldiers...

"(Israel's) decision to give advance warning to civilians in Gaza of impending operations gave a clear indication to Hamas of Israel's military intentions. Leaflets and text messages had given the residents of Shujai'iya at least two days' warning to leave their homes by a specific deadline, with instructions about which streets marked a safe area, the source said.

"They didn't leave because of threats from Hamas," he said. "So many civilian casualties is bad but that's what Hamas wanted us to face, the civilian human shield."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-soldiers...



Trending on the Web

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

I'd wager you are probably correct

Idle speculation of course, the true number will likely never be known.

true

...

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Reminds me of Jon Stewart's comment "Flee to where?"

And despite Israeli warnings for days to Gaza citizens to flee in foresight of Israeli offensive, nearly 100 more civilians were killed during the fierce fighting today alone.

Flee to southern Gaza...

Hey look, I understand the "Flee to where?" notion. Having to leave and possibly lose your home. That sucks really bad. But it's better than being KILLED, or your family being killed.

Israel did a lot more than Hamas would ever do for Israelis, let alone their own people, by warning them days in advance, telling them which routes south were safe, and which were not.
Meanwhile, Hamas threatened their people not to leave, so they could continue to be used as human shields.

There are actually refugee camps in several parts of Gaza Strip, right now, where IDF will not target. It is certainly a crappy situation, as all war is.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

The " "Flee to where?"

The " "Flee to where?" notion. Having to leave and possibly lose your home. That sucks really bad. But it's better than being KILLED, or your family being killed." There are times when people have chosen death over many things. Taking away one's whole means and meaning of life, as in perpetuating a prison environment in which to survive, and then bombing the place to hell and back, might qualify.

Uh...

I lost everything in hurricane Sandy. My house, my business, most of my belongings, furniture, etc., etc...

I didn't say 'screw it, Ill just sit here and drown.' I got the flock out of there. For weeks I was going from friends house to friends house, then in motels for a month, then moved south to stay with family. Still haven't recovered. But I'm not dead.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

If only

Israel would open the gates to accept Gazan refugees.

Oh wait, Israel is fight to keep them there in the first place. Israel has no moral high ground. The "warnings" are nothing more than propaganda, and probably serve to terrorize the citizens of Gaza.

"Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito."

not so fast...

...Palestinians fought for separation, and their own land. They got it. Israel completely pulled out of Gaza in 2005. They still have responsibility to protect Gaza & West Banks international borders from outside forces, because Palestine does not have a formal navy or air force.

Israel wouldn't have had to up a fence and have such tight restrictions on crossing if it weren't for the kind of terror efforts you see by Hamas. And I don't agree with Netanyahu on what level of citizenship "Palestinians" in Gaza will have, when Israel annexes back Gaza, due to the proven instability of the two-two-state solution. They should be given a chance to become full citizens. Even if it the next generation, I believe in one-state solution where all have equal rights. I understand the party in charge of Israeli government right now is not exactly there yet, but they are far better than elsewhere in the region. If peace can develop, I believe that democracy can work, as it does work better in Israel than even the USA, and equal rights can be had by all, in this lifetime in Israel.

I don't know why it is that some people on here, seem to think the root of the conflict is Jews pushing Muslims off their land. That is really not the case. The root of the fighting, especially today, in 2014, is Islam's refusal to allow it's people to live peacefully alongside non-Muslims.
How many countries, for how many centuries does this need to be demonstrated before people realize what the problem is. Israel has accepted outside deals to make peace, and Hamas radical-Muslims refuse peace. Because they want more concessions. They want appeasement, until Israel and the Jews, are gone.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

What makes you think...

...that democracy can work there, when it has never been shown to work anywhere, ever? At least not for a significant amount of time. Democracy is tyranny. Democracy allows the majority to trample over the rights of the minority. Eventually the minority's grievences will be heard, through bloodshed.

Maybe when my republic has secured its freedom from a tyranical government(again), I might have the time and strength to worry about what is going on in your country.

I guess I'm not alone

Ideologically I agree...

..that democracy is a terrible form of government. It results in tyranny.

I use the term democracy, for lack of a better term, because Israel is not a true republic. But representatives are democratically elected, like most western nations. It is not a pure democracy. There are checks and balances, courts, appeals courts, Supreme Court, Knesset (Israeli Parliament) and there are the "Basic Laws of Israel" which serve as the equivalent to a constitution.

This link explains how Israel's government works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Laws_of_Israel

I too generally loathe how our politicians or news people or whoever refer to America as a "democracy", when we are a Republic. But I reluctantly used the word in my comment about Israel for as I said, lack of a better term of reference, as Israel, I don't think, can be called a republic. It is at least, a representative democracy, but has many aspects of a republic.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Crappy situation when you live next to Israel.

There.

That's true...

Because all the countries next to Israel are brutal Islamic dictatorships, based on Sharia Law, where they stone young women to death, and torture "infidels" to death.

Living IN Israel, on the other hand, is much better.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Yeah, you always need compare Israel to some repressive regimes

just to somehow make Israel look half-decent.

Look, with or without despotic regimes Israel is still a racist apartheid state which steals Palestinian land; controls all Palestinian borders, all imports and exports, and all movement between towns and cities; arrests and imprisons Palestinians without charge or trial; tortures; conducts house searches without warrant; assassinates Palestinian leaders; blockades Gaza strip in which 50% of its population live in absolute poverty; commits genocide; and ethnically cleanses a whole people.

As always, your comments are full of fallacies. Your postings (this posting as well as your other postings) are simply to whitewash Israel's ongoing war crimes.

who are you supporting again?

?

And everything you just said is spun, propaganda, uninformed regurgitated opinion, and outright falsehood. All of which I've refuted dozens of times. Not gonna bother refuting every fallacy you just posted one by one right now, because it would be an obvious waste of time.

This was a pretty objective, intelligent conversation/debate until your one-sided rant.
I'd like it if this thread could remain somewhat objective, and open to intelligent conversation, and accepting of points from all sides. Not random spewing of propaganda, piece after piece with no basis, degenerating into an anger fest. Thank you.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

You got that right.

Agreed.