-22 votes

Meat

Is For Pussies

(A how-to guide for dudes who want to get fit, kick ass and take names)

John Joseph wants men to know, in no uncertain terms, that they don’t need to eat steak, burgers, wings, ribs, or any other animal product, for that matter, to be strong—in fact, he would argue, eating animals is for the weak. Because when your protein sources come from animals, you’re missing out on all of the nutritional benefits of a plant-based diet—a diet that can make you more fit, more sexy, and more manly. 


http://www.amazon.com/Meat-Pussies-guide-dudes-names/dp/B005...

Make a smoothie with Joseph. Hilarious, but warning: lots of cussing.

http://youtu.be/OG8ltDiGnwM

"Kill negativity and see what you're capable of achieving"
-John Joseph
http://www.purepma.com/

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Soft boiled is a close as I've come to raw.

Although i fancy sashimi (raw fish) and raw oysters, I have yet to try raw eggs.

Eggs are a perfect food!

Free includes debt-free!

I always mix them...

in some kind of healthy shake....no taste...no texture.

I've heard others suggest this.

Now that my walking pneumonia infection is clearing, evidenced by normal body temperature I was thinking of bulking up using a protein shake, eggs and cream.

Soon I'll be starting my second 60 years and I plan to hit the ground running.

It's been great to have an appetite again! Thanks for the useful hint.

Free includes debt-free!

Meat, fat, lots of green leafy vegies work for me- Paleo?

I used to be raw vegan (mostly fruit), which was fabulous for the first 2 years, then I started declining, but stuck with it for another 2 years. When I was so tired I could hardly get out of bed, I added raw meat and full fat raw dairy and improved immediately. None of my long term vegan friends are healthy, most complains of fatigue, lack of energy. From personal experience, if I were to go raw vegan again (short periods for cleansing), it would be mostly greens rather than fruit.

you could have been

lacking in taurine. i'm assuming you were taking B12 D3 EPA/DHA, yet plenty of vegans and vegetarians don't, and eat way too much vegan junk food. i agree a mostly green cleanse is best. i think if meat is eaten wisely (grass fed) and a small part of your diet it's fine, just as a vegan diet with the right supplements is fine. people can eat poorly or unwisely in either camp, and along with the fatigued vegans you mention, there's plenty of fat meat eaters who can't get off the couch either.

40 year vegan dies of heart attack

Why are vegans in trouble of dying at a young age? There not eating any animal based fat and protein: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7KeRwdIH04

You need to flip the food pyramid upside down eat 90% fats and animal proteins. You will eat less food naturally. If everyone ate this way the world would not need to grow more food, eveyone would eat 50% less.

Listen to the diet doctor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaquSijXJkQ

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

if everyone ate that way

the tropical rain forests (the lungs of the world) would be gone so enough beef could be raised.

thanks for posting the dr. gregor lecture, maybe some will actually watch it and see what he's really proposing and not your opinion, that you've added to the link.

Dr. Michael Greger talks about why a 40 year old vegan dies of a heart attack and all about omega 3's and B12 nutrition and why these two nutrients are so important to all vegans and everyone else.

Can vegans die from a heart attack?
Yes, it has happened to this 40 year vegan, vegetarian since birth.

Can vegans die of the same diseases that plague people on the Western standard diet of meat, dairy and eggs?
Sure! Dr. Michael Greger tells us why and how to prevent this.

We can prevent many illnesses and diseases as a vegan. As a vegan we are not full proof. In today's society because of washing our produce, chlorinating our water supply and soil being deficient we may need to supplement certain nutrients.

Some amazing facts, documentation, stats and a whole lot of scientific information presented in this lecture. Informative. I never knew this until I saw the video. Amazing video! A must see for everyone, including vegans and vegetarians.

I see, your poor diet choices driven by fear for a mythical ecos

Half of the US is mowed lawn. Less than half is for food production.

Imagine your choices are martyrdom, but don't expect conversions without credible science to back up wild claims.

Free includes debt-free!

America was discovered on the high fat animal diet,

a food called pemican. Pemican is meat dried by the sun and placed in a hide sack and topped off with the fat cooked down from the animal killed. When winter came and explorers where stranded they could survive on as little as 1 pound of pemican per day. If they were vegans they would have died, and America would still be undiscovered. The Inuit indians still eat this way and live very healthy long lives. The ones switching to our Ameican diet are finding themselves sick and dying.

Reseachers are now proving the high fat diet cures cancer and all other ailments brought on by high processed foods. In the early 1900's very few people died of heart desease, but as we switched to a high sugar diet heart attacks followed.

Vegans can live just fine on their vegetable diet short term,but they must make sure their getting all the correct nutrients. If your not getting enough vitamin C you'll get scurvy. With a high fat diet you can forget getting this and all other ailment brought on by sugar. No need to count any thing your body just regulates just fine on high fat diet.

Fatty liver disease is a very serious and is brought on by sugar in the diet, and can be cured on the high fat diet within 30 days.

The high fat diet cleans out all the garbage caused by sugar.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

wow, great comment....

any links on this part?
Fatty liver disease is a very serious and is brought on by sugar in the diet, and can be cured on the high fat diet within 30 days.
The high fat diet cleans out all the garbage caused by sugar

Whoops

didn't read your whole comment.

Here is a study on the Ketogenic diets effects on fatty liver: http://diabeticmediterraneandiet.com/2011/05/01/low-carb-die...

The second video below addresses your question about sugar and fatty liver.

"The high fat diet cleans out all the garbage caused by sugar"

This phrase can be backed up by the fact there are two types of LDL cholestrol, one is produced by the human body from sugar. The other LDL can only come from animal meat or staurated fat. The first is bad LDL, the second is a good LDL and is required to repair the body. I remember seeing studies on the Centenial population many years ago. They found that that population had a different LDL than the younger generations, it was stringy and much larger. In fact this type of LDL can not form as plague in the arteries.

The problem with our medical profession they show both types of LDL lumped together as a bad cholestrol, which is a lie. Both LDL and HDL should fluctuate up and down in the body as you eat different foods.

Where we get into serious trouble is when we all eat at the puke and choke restuarants. There fries are a heart attack waiting to happen, because of the omega 6 oils used. Not only that but potatoes in the last two years can contain up to 600 ppm roundup or glyphosate. The EPA's own data says we should not have over .7 ppm in our drinking water, or it will cause kidney failure.

I was shocked to find out about Glyphosate in potatoes, because every fall I sold as many as 20 tons of potatoes at my honey/fruit stand. As of immediately I will no longer sell potatoes, I sell wholesome foods not garbage.
The way I figured it out was I tried to plant left over potatoes like I had in past years. They would't even sprout, so I did some online researh and found growers use glyphosate to kill of potatoes to stop the growth. Not so many over sized potatoes that can't be sold. They call this a desication process.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

I don't remember where I read about pemican but here is a doctor

that did research on it, he talks about pemican at 14 min but watch the whole video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkdFkPxxDG8

This video shows the food industry has made us all fat for their own profits, real science here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=72332904&x-yt-ts=140682...

Here is a real life study on a small group of indians that were isolated from the rest of the world for a long time. Our polution and other factors forced them to live and eat like the Americans, which made them all fat and sick. The high fat diet helped them return back to good health their ancestors had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm3H_s7fXtQ

edit: here is a wiki article on pemiccan, very interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemmican

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

Everything You Need To Know

Everything You Need To Know To Start A Plant Based Diet

While diet is a personal matter, increasing scientific evidence drawn from longitudinal studies such as the Adventist Health Study, the EPIC-Oxford Study and other large databases indicate that the lowest rates of chronic diseases occur in people who don't eat meat, eggs and dairy and instead consume mostly plant-based foods.
http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-14670/everything-you-need-to-...

He quit eating the Standard American Diet and lost weight.

Wouldn't it be logical to say he lost weight because he cut his Caloric intake?

Alternatively, there are many examples of people who eat very low carb diets with only moderate total Caloric restriction, lose significant weight, and eliminate the symptoms of diseases. For example check out some of the posts at:

http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/

http://www.dietdoctor.com/

In all of human history, what society has eaten exclusively a plant based diet long term? I have never heard of one, but I have heard of societies that ate almost exclusively animal based diets and enjoyed good health, and others that ate a mixed diet with good results.

Today, the societies where the average age is the longest do not eat like this fellow in your video; they eat meat as part of their intake. Yes the Standard American Diet sucks and produces poor health; that is obvious. What lacks proof is that excluding meat is the answer, and given that we have a long human history of successfully surviving eating meat, I would find it almost a miracle that some few crusaders suddenly have discovered that meat is the culprit in poor health.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

The Meat-Disease connection

http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/cancer-the-meatdisease-...

However,
If desired, the remaining 10% of the diet can contain small amounts of foods with lower nutrient to calorie ratios, such as animal products, sweets, and processed foods, as shown toward the top of the pyramid. By keeping these low nutrient foods to a minimum and striving to eat at least 90% of calories from the unrefined plant foods that comprise the base of the pyramid each day, you construct a health-promoting, disease-preventing diet. This high nutrient eating style is considered a Nutritarian™ diet.
https://www.drfuhrman.com/library/foodpyramid.aspx

and from the article 'a light bulb went off-

'He also discovered that he could eat as much as he wanted of the right foods and not gain weight. His new way of eating felt more like abundance than deprivation.'

The argument against libertarianism used is similar: that there is no history of a country ever practicing it, and even if that was 100% true, would that be a reason not to strive for one?

If there is correlation between A and B, that is not proof of

cause and effect. If there is no correlation, it is impossible to have cause and effect between A and B. The connection your doctor friend sites is no proof of cause and effect, only a suggestion that an actual controlled, randomized, scientific study be done.

The supposed connection between meat and cancer is not proven; it is just hypothesized. There is a much better hypothesis that polyunsaturated omega 6 fats cause cancer, and the correlation since 1900 is high between the two. The LA Veterans Administration study was an eight year gold standard scientific study and showed a higher cancer death rate for those eating polyunsaturated fat instead of saturated fats.

I remember back in the 1980's the idea that smoked meat and associated nitrates caused cancer was floating around the health food community, so some actual studies were eventually done, and they were not able to prove it, but plenty of people still cling to the idea.

If you want to use correlation as scientific proof, then you need to accept this "study" too which identifies the association between mental disorders and the adoption of a vegetarian diet:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22676203#

Vegetarians displayed elevated prevalence rates for depressive disorders, anxiety disorders and somatoform disorders. Due to the matching procedure, the findings cannot be explained by socio-demographic characteristics of vegetarians (e.g. higher rates of females, predominant residency in urban areas, high proportion of singles). The analysis of the respective ages at adoption of a vegetarian diet and onset of a mental disorder showed that the adoption of the vegetarian diet tends to follow the onset of mental disorders.

The last sentence gave me a good laugh, not because it means anything, but in a contentious discussion it is always fun to in a good natured way throw a barb at the opposing side.

Actually there is evidence that eating a lot of fruit and vegetables instead of meat produces protein damage by glycation of proteins:

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vege...

" I find this intriguing because so many anti-meat zealots constantly harp about the dangers of overcooking meat (or cooking it on a grill) because of the AGEs that are produced in the process, which, they seem to believe end up in the bodies of those who eat grilled or overcooked meat. I don’t think it’s too much to assume that most of the omnivores eat meat, and some probably overcook it or grill it, yet they have less accumulation of AGES than the oh so fastidious vegetarians."

Check your hemoglobin A1c which, if high, is an indication that all that fruit and vegetable consumption is producing high blood sugar and screwing up your proteins.

And here is a summary of 23 studies which compare low carb diets with low fat diets:

http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low...

Low carb seems to result in better weight loss and reduce insulin resistance, while the other indicators of health between the two alternatives are a mixed bag which mostly favors the low carb diet. While a low carb diet is generally high in saturated fat and protein, and a low fat diet is generally high in carbs, the distinction is, while suggestive, only partly applicable to meat vs fruit, grains, and vegetables.

The point is that your rejection of meat and affection for grains, fruits, and vegetables is no more healthy than people eating a lot of saturated fat, meat, and very few fruits and vegetables. Both can produce weight loss and improve many markers of health, but there are known dangers of excluding meat and pumping up the carbs, one being AGE's.

Almost any alternative diet is superior to the low quality Standard American Diet which is chock full of refined carbs, GMO or otherwise modified grains, and polyunsaturated omega 6 fats, much of which is produced on factory farms grossly deficient in important minerals, saturated with pesticides, and adulterated in processing to the point that it is questionable to call it food at all.

At least you are looking for the answer even though I disagree with your strong belief you have found it.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

Henry

Some of my best friends are meat eaters :-)

Seriously, I've been a meat eater and consumer of dairy in the past, and it did not agree with me. My health and energy level changed dramatically when I cut them out. However, when I travel (mostly to tropical ports) I'll eat a freshly caught white fish once or twice a week for the DHA/EPA, and will indulge in a free range egg dish occasionally. The nutritarian diet (which allows small portions of meat 10%)

makes the most sense to me. I've seen the pictures of all the low carb, pro heavy fats from meat, and dairy gurus and at first they slim down, but then so many of them regain the weight and look unhealthy. If you'd like I'll post a video regarding that which also shows the plant-based authors and doctors and how they continue to look lean and healthy. This speaks more to me than all these studies, pro and con, since we both know with vested interests they can be manipulated. I'm really a live and let live guy who likes to post topics that get a good discussion going (even if I have to endure certain meat fanatics and know it alls). I don't believe anyone has all the answers to anything, but regardless of your preference to eat meat or not, in my opinion, it should be saddled with a good dose of common sense, and finding what works best for you.

while this may not assist you (as you figured it out w/help)

others may find it useful for those who need HCL supplements

http://scdlifestyle.com/2013/10/4-common-betaine-hcl-mistakes/

http://scdlifestyle.com/2012/03/how-to-supplement-with-betai...

the comments are also useful

Funny how this avowed vegetarian doctor seems to always

find a reason to demonize the low carb diet.

His assertion that meat raises insulin more than carbs is laughable. You might want to listen to this MD if you want to see some actual study results:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP6DtqmZ3Mw

And, I wonder why this University of Alabama study recommends that people with diabetes (type I and type II) eat a low carb diet. Could it be because a low carb diet keeps blood sugar levels stable and relatively low? Who would have guessed that if you didn't ramp up the need for insulin by eating a boat load of carbs that you could reduce your need for exogenous insulin for type I diabetics, reduce or eliminate insulin resistance in type II diabetics, and prevent prediabetics from becoming type II diabetics? Repeated high insulin levels create insulin resistance just like repeated injections of heroin create heroin tolerance.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140724132354.htm

The study, conducted by a consortium of 26 physicians and nutrition researchers, suggests the need for a reappraisal of dietary guidelines due to the inability of current recommendations to control the epidemic of diabetes. The authors point to the specific failure of the prevailing low-fat diets to improve obesity, cardiovascular risk or general health, and to the persistent reports of serious side effects of commonly prescribed diabetes medications. By comparison, the authors refer to the continued success of low-carbohydrate diets in the treatment of diabetes and metabolic syndrome without significant side effects.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

your wording

"demonize, laughable. boat load" are they helpful?

how to cure diabetes
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/how-to-treat-diabetes/

BTW the plant-based nutritarian diet of Dr. Fuhrman advocates for low carb, but instead of meat and dairy, oils and processed foods he advocates for vegetables and three pieces of fruit a day, as well as supplements B12 D3 DHA/EPA etc.

Yes, it was such an absurd assertion that it could only be

described as laughable. I wonder if he knows the glycemic index of beef is zero. Saying meat raises insulin levels more than carbs defies all that is known about protein, fat, and carbohydrates. The only way that would be remotely true is if one ate plant food that had so much fiber and so little available energy that it was the equivalent of sawdust. For an honest comparison one would need to measure an equivalent amount of Calories from meat to an equivalent amount of Calories from vegetables or grains, or fruit to assess the impact of these alternative food sources on insulin. Yes, I could eat sawdust and claim that meat raised insulin more than a plant based diet, but Calorie for Calorie it would be impossible for meat to raise insulin more than plant based foods.

Meat contains a very, very small amount of glycogen which would raise blood sugar, hence stimulating insulin secretion. The protein in meat could be converted in ones liver to a sugar if needed, but it would only happen if there was not another source of fuel for the body, and this is a much slower process because it requires energy expenditure for the conversion, hence there would be a very slow and low impact on insulin levels (no spikes). The fat in the meat cannot be converted to sugar; it can only be burned by cells in the body that can burn fat, but much of it is converted to ketone bodies to that can be burned by almost all cells, and ketone bodies do not increase insulin.

Carbohydrates on the other hand can cause big spikes in insulin levels almost immediately after consumption because they are easily processed into blood sugar. If you notice on nutrition labels the total carb count and fiber count is listed. Some of the carbs are bound up in fiber and are not available to increase blood sugar. Even with high fiber plant products, it would be impossible to find, Calorie for Calorie, plant based foods that did not cause more increase in blood sugar than meat.

The video you present from your doctor friend does not address the meat issue because he compared people with diabetes on medication with people with diabetes eating a vegetarian diet. If the study cited had added a third group, people with diabetes eating an ultra low carb, high fat, moderate meat, diet, your doctor's anti-meat advocacy related to diabetes would have been discredited.

In response to one of your comments I referenced a recent University of Alabama study which showed the highly beneficial effect of a low carb diet on both type I and II diabetics and that is because carbs raise blood sugar, hence creating a need for insulin to remove the sugar from the blood before it goes too high to be toxic and kill them.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140724132354.htm

"Diabetes is a disease of carbohydrate intolerance," said Barbara Gower, Ph.D., professor and vice chair for research in the UAB Department of Nutrition Sciences and one of the study authors. "Reducing carbohydrates is the obvious treatment. It was the standard approach before insulin was discovered and is, in fact, practiced with good results in many institutions. The resistance of government and private health agencies is very hard to understand."

The authors say their review of the medical literature shows that low-carbohydrate diets reliably reduce high blood sugar -- the most salient feature of diabetes -- and at the same time show general benefit for risk of cardiovascular disease.

You can't demonize a meat and advocate a vegetarian diet by the claim that the vegetarian diet helps diabetics. The low carb diet does help diabetics. A vegetarian diet with a very low glycemic index would be helpful also, but not as helpful as a low carb diet for the obvious reason that low carb does not require as much insulin to keep blood sugar levels within range.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

The Healthy Way

Dueling references: Study shows vegetarians less healthy,

with poorer quality of life.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/04/01/study-vegetarians-les...

Link to the study is included in the above link.

But the vegetarian diet — characterized by a low consumption of saturated fats and cholesterol that includes increased intake of fruits, vegetables and whole-grain products — carries elevated risks of cancer, allergies and mental health disorders.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

uh huh

Veg congress day one: The fact vegetarians are healthier than meat-eaters is ‘one of the most consistent findings of nutritional epidemiology’

By Elaine Watson, Loma Linda, California, 25-Feb-2013

People on a plant-based diet are consistently slimmer and healthier than meat eaters, with a lower risk of cardiovascular disease, cancer and diabetes, according to research unveiled at the 6th International Congress on Vegetarian Nutrition (ICVN).

http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/R-D/Veg-congress-day-one-Th...

So how does this report discredit meat or a low carb diet?

Even toward the end of the write up there is a caption indicating meat is not the enemy.

"...meat is not the enemy. 'It seems that the presence of more phytochemical - rich plant foods rather than the complete absence of animal food what makes a vegetarian diet so successful.'"

Where did they find people who only eat meat to compare to people who are vegetarians? Didn't they compare vegetarians with people who eat meat and other animal products, grains, fruits, and vegetables?

Is there any diet that would produce worse results than the Standard American Diet (SAD)? The answer is probably not, and this study was a SAD vs a vaguely defined vegetarian diet. Does this proved the benefit of a vegetarian diet, or prove that the SAD is bad? It certainly doesn't prove that a meat based diet is the cause of disease or that a vegetarian diet produces better health than a meat based diet.

A legitimate study would need to give one group only animal based food, and the other only plant based food, with only the minimal processing in each case to even begin to see which worked better, and your study did not do that. In such a study there still would be a number of variables that would need to be isolated to sort out the reality.

When people switch from the SAD to a low carb ketogenic diet, good results for weight loss and correction of metabolic syndrome are reported. As you state, good results come from switching from the SAD to a plant based diet occur. So if both a low carb ketogenic diet, and a plant based diet produce reasonably similar results, then it can not possibly be animal products that are the cause of poor health. In other words, it is the SAD diet that is the problem and there is not just one alternative that can fix that.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.