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If You Take Away Religion You Can't Hire Enough Police.

Business philosopher and education guru Clay Christiansen's thoughts on how important religion is to a free society.


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I guess my question is, why are things so bad today?

I drive to the lake and to get to the end of my road I pass three churches. I then turn on the main highway and drive 15 miles where I pass at least 20 churches. I hit the back road to the boat ramp and pass an additional 9 churches. If I go on Sunday morning these churches are filled to the brim with cars, some even having to park along the roadside. So with the churches full, what do we have today?

We have wars in multiple countries, and these wars were started preemptively. We have politicians who lied to get us into these wars, and even after they were found to be liars, the Church goers still supported the actions.

We have the Catholic Church involved in child molestation, now so openly that it appears they are not scared of consequence.

We have a militarized police force, free speech "zones", and armored vehicles roaming the streets of down town USA. And the church folks think that is just fine.

In Iraq today Christians are being slaughtered wholesale, and our president waits weeks to act. Yet the Christian community in the US is far too busy to protest the slaughter, cause it is not happening to them.

We have an unemployment rate around 22%, 40% for teens, and 55% for blacks, but it's all good to continue the spending and re-elect those who have failed to represent the people, and only themselves and corporate interests in highly conservative areas such as Lindsey Graham.

Our schools are a complete failure to our children, being taught sex ed before they can distinguish their own sexuality, but thats not worth raising a stink about.

The justice system is a failure, for profit pit of despair for anyone unfortunate enough to get involved, and so many statutes have been allowed that even the staunchest Christian unknowingly commits at least one felony on their drive home from work, but there not effected so why not vote in the status quo?

Evangelical preachers from Baker to Haggard to countless others whom so many sent in their hard earned monies only to find out of their maleficent's, it is clear that men are evil by nature,even those with whom the public supported prior to their incarceration as moral leaders.

No, morality does not come from religion itself, only moral people that have been raised to respect their elders, to protect the weak, and those who respect themselves.

What this nation needs is to run the immoral liars in the media out, to work on family values, and to live the words in their religions bible instead of allowing others to interpret those words to suit their own needs.

I see the failure of organized religion in the same sense that I see our failed justice system. As the lawyers and status quo interpret the constitution to suit their needs at the time, religion interprets religious text in the same manner. Christians follow the "new" testament right to the point where the old testament is needed to justify the killings of others. An eye for an eye when Israel attacks anyone else, even if they are the aggressor. The same goes for preemptive wars sending our youth off to kill other people in the name of big oil and corporate interests instead of making our nation safe, and the Christians remain silent, if not to cheer the on coming slaughter on both sides. obviously in the name of God.

The premise that religion makes one moral has no evidence of being true today, but is still repeated enough to make those that support these blasphemous policies, leaders, and wars comfortable in their own skin, which legitimises the actions taken in their name. Silence is consent, and the silence today if deafening.

I do agree that raising a child to understand the concept of the 10 commandments is a good thing, but to ignore the bible to justify what a corrupt, greedy, and criminal government does without so much as a peep shows the true colors and morals of those entrapped in the world of organized religion, and if you were looking for morality, I would recommend "not" be starting there, as it is today a place where hypocrisy can be found on a daily basis, and an example of how easy it is to use religion to control a moral people into a belief system that when compared to the words of the bible is unrecognizable.

As a Christian who abandoned "organized" religion for the bible itself I can say with confidence that I would never harm another creature unless it is game to eat after a hunt, or another human who threatens my families life. I hold the door for everyone at the store in and out, respect my elders, and help others when ever I can, but this is not a result of my relationship with God, it came from a mother that taught me such things. I do not claim to be perfect, but I have read the bible, and looking at religion today I do not see a correlation with the words of God and todays religious peoples.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

The whole premise is silly,

The whole premise is silly, how does one go about taking religion away? If you burn all the ceremonial clothes and shut down all the buildings, how have you removed someone's faith in God?

I am a believer in God and I have known many atheists that are good people. I think they are out of tune with a higher frequency in the universe, but that doesn't make them all marauding cannibals. There are a lot of people that adopt perversions of religion to justify the hate they want to project, as well as a lot of silly atheists that point to religion as the source of hate. Atheists and religious people commit heinous acts just the same, so clearly religion or lack of religion is not the source of hate/violence, it's the heart of the individual.

Until science can measure the amount of love and hate in each person's heart (good luck with that), science is insufficient for answering spiritual questions. The best the attendees of the church of science can do is pretend spiritual things don't exist at all. To live and die while only being in tune with this dimension the whole time, has to be the worst fate a human can have.

Holy crap!

It continues to baffle my mind how some people think morality comes from belief in god. It's like trying to argue about the color of the sky with someone claiming it's green. No, you're fucking wrong. The sky is blue. Morality does not depend on belief in god. End of story.

Jeffrey Dahmers

Fine example for a putrid piece of humanity . With no religion too. To blame religion for the worlds wrongs. Stalin Mao. PolPot I guess Some libertarians like some Liberals like to blame religion. Face it humans sometimes act like animals . One day when you become hungry in your belly because you cannot get any food. Most will turn into feral dogs. The ones that prepared for hard times had religion and guns will help those out. I found out in 2011 .Many of the Ron Paul people were to lazy to vote for Ron when it counted. They had some reason to blame something why they didn't vote. They liked his ideas . Fact they were to lazy to vote. Like the bible says .You reap what you sow. There is a golden rule. Ask Ron. And yes things are going by the book. The next war will not be about religion either. It has always been about land ,oil minerals and, wealth control. Food and water might be the next one. Blow blow Seminole Wind . When men feel that cold Draft on the back of there neck. Like I did once.Who will they blame. It wont be religion to blame. Oh the "humanity. A stupid word. My opinion

Money talks and dogs bark

Let me tell you a story....

...that has been passed down in my family tens of thousands of years.

My great uncle, 1511 times removed, snicked into his neighbors cave a stole some left-over wooly mammoth meat. The neighbor came home and caught my uncle and beat the crap out of him.
Two weeks later, my uncle went to another neighbors cave and starting messing with his woman. The neighbor came home, caught him in the act and beat the crap out of him.
Moral of the story: Even before any concept of religion, man learned real quick that thou shall not steal and that thou shall not covet your neighbors 'ass.'

Inherently, we know right from wrong. Religions are mind control and a tool to divide and conquer.


If I were to believe this

If I were to believe this video, the Netherlands would obviously be a shithole, lol. I guess it must be hell where I live and we are all sin incarnate with the appearance of humans.....

Not to say that religion is unimportant, but I think more nuance is necessary here. I would say some societies require more religion than others. It has to do with their temperament. Religion is ultimately a very personal thing and some people require it in order to function properly. To ban religion would have adverse and disastrous effects for a society relying on it.

But not all societies need religion in order to function properly. Like I said, it has to do with temperament.

IF you take away religion and don't replace it with anything

IF you take away religion and don't replace it with anything, such as education or nationalism or some other social-cultural standards, then you get a total pig-sty. But I disagree there's not enough police. The DHS snitch-on-your-neighbor policy is based on Stasi practices in East Germany, and that was sufficient to maintain strict order. Combine it with NSA mass surveillance, and the police will be able to target and liquidate resistance in short order.

Unlike in Holland, in the U.S., religion cannot be replaced with education, as clearly the education system is unfit for anything anymore, civics having been eliminated in the 60s, and practical education being fatally wounded at around the same time. Religious conviction would be the only thing compelling the unwashed masses from abusing one another for selfish gain. Socialist "we're all in this together" mantras never worked -- except through the barrel of a gun.

"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"

And don't forget...

...genital mutilations... This nonsense that principles and morality can't be lived nor taught by atheists is personally horribly offensive. While I don't proscribe to the notion that all "religion" is bad, I certainly take issue with those who carry the notion that without religion you're all "bad." Once I was devoutly religious. Although I am now atheist I still live by certain Christlike principles and hope to carry the attributes of the forementioned and pass those onto my children without the hypocritical restraints and nonsensical dogma associated with organized religion.

I agree almost

The fact that religions teach moral principles is indisputable. Also without dispute is the fact that everyone has the ability to choose right or wrong no matter whether they are a religious person or not.
Where I disagree with Mr. Christiansen is that the police are the ones creating most of the crime even before this latest "police state" epidemic. Since time immemorial police have been the source of crime.
Hire more police and see the crime rate go through the roof. Arm everybody and there is not need for the police. The bad guys will get shot out of existence. People will have great respect for others.
However in a religious and principled society where everyone and I mean everyone respects everyone else's right to choose what religion they want or choose no religion, then there is no need for guns or the police. This kind of world is a utopia unfortunately, so start packin your glock.


If that is true, then why are the prisons filled with 97% religious people, and of those 90% are Christian?

If religion disappeared there would be less rapes and sexual crimes, far less military violence, no genocides, addicts would get actual help that works, and a lot less socialism.

And bonus, none of that horrible Christian "Rock". 'shudder'

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

Contradictory and Inflammatory

You just said that religion was not responsible for morality, and then followed it up by contending religion is responsible for immorality.

Religion, by itself, is responsible for nothing; individuals are responsible for themselves.

I think you replied to the wrong person

I said no such thing.

But, I'll bite. Religion is, at times, responsible for immorality. While you are in essence correct about the individual. Religion, and certain religions in particular, control the thoughts and opinions of the people and use propaganda to steer them. The genocide against Muslims in the Middle East, for instance. The blind support for Israel and their concentration camp known as Gaza. Supporting a president who is full of immorality (it was radical born-againers that got Bush II elected and all shepherded by the preachers). The Mega-Churches themselves are a propaganda tool financed by the Neocons.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

Holy nonsense statements

Holy nonsense statements Batman! The military violence of the 20th century alone should be enough to explain there would not be less military violence sans religion, in fact there would be more as history has shown. And socialism is entirely a non religious offshoot of Communism, if religion caused Socialism America would have been Socialist from the moment the Revolutionary war ended. Please go back to school or at least to a Library.


Because we aren't killing brown Muslims because of their religion? Sure we aren't....If you are blind to that simple fact then you have no business around people who are awake to reality. I suppose you could say that publicly we aren't "saying" that we are killing them because they are Muslim. But, every Christian in America that supports our genocide in the ME is going along with it for that reason. They won't admit it, but that is the truth. It is for you to deal with.

The Bolsheviks used propaganda saying they were doing God's work.

The Nazi Germans were devout Christians and believed they were achieving religious purity.

World War I did not have religious backing - but it was endorsed and fought by religious people who believed their nation was 'blessed'.

Socialism is based on a the Christian concept of "Social Justice" and existed before Marx even wrote his thesis. I didn't say religion "caused" socialism - you are lying. Most religions teach the opposite of what we now call objectivism (Ayn Rand, etc...) which is the basic philosophy needed for free market economics.

No war or killing was ever done to purge a nation of religious people. The majority of the population of all nations have always been religious, Russia included.

It is not I that needs a book.

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."--Mark Twain

ONE: 'You shall have no other

ONE: 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'

TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'

THREE: 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'

FOUR: 'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'

FIVE: 'Honor your father and your mother.'

SIX: 'You shall not murder.'

SEVEN: 'You shall not commit adultery.'

EIGHT: 'You shall not steal.'

NINE: 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'

TEN: 'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.' - See more at: http://www.allabouttruth.org/10-commandments.htm#sthash.MM3g...

One Law....Do No Harm

tdd4ron i have some issues with your rule book. My first awakening as a child was when i heard Moses came down from Mt Sinai with this rule book. He witnessed the people below worshiping a calf or bull or something. He got really peed off and had 3000 killed. Did rule #6 not apply to him?

Do No harm doesn't work

Do No harm doesn't work anyway.

Surely you have heard what you don't know doesn't hurt you?

I can sleep with your spouse as long as you don't know?

I can take what belongs to you as long as you don't notice?

Do no harm leaves far to much for the mortal man to interpret. So we have ten laws spelled out for us.

In Leviticus God commandments

In Leviticus God commandments also order those who worship false gods to be stoned. Back then, there was no ransom, sins had yet to be forgiven, so it meant life if you sinned. Because Jesus died, we now have the hope to be forgiven. Recall what the Israelites did. They sacrificed their best herd-like beasts in order to be forgiven.

PS Not my Laws :) I just try to obey them.

Man-o-man Evil Stuff.

To each their own my friend. I've read the book years back and recall mothers boiling their babies, sacrificing your first son, giving up your child to be raped. Horrendous to no end.

Keep it simple. Do no harm.

That's the way it was.. the telling of the truth 'evil was done

is not to endorse it. It is to remind one of the consequences of disregarding common morality. This type of behavior is condemned in practically every book within the Book.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

and then came Jesus to spread

and then came Jesus to spread love and forgivness.


I agree. Not too many Laws to follow when you boil them down to two.

C_T_CZ's picture

I disagree....

There are countless examples of immoral behavior from people who claim to be religious. Likewise, countless examples of non religious but totally moral people.

I would say that Liberty (and the non aggression principle) have the moral high ground compared to most any religion out there.

Proclaim LIBERTY throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof

I have always stated that.....

religion was created by man, for man, to control man. It's just like my pro-decriminaliztion position----if drugs were legal, it doesn't mean I would go out and use them. If there weren't morals, it doesn't mean that I would go out and commit immoral acts. Freedom reigns supreme.

Our Nation was founded upon Judeao Christian Principles.

There's no denying this. It is what made America great. The Religion of Love God and your Neighbor as yourself, when lived, makes freedom possible. If you keep the those two laws you have Liberty. Just because other people don't live their religion doesn't me there isn't truth behind it. TRUTH: There is a God and we will be held accountable to how we treated ALL of HIS children here on earth.

That is an insult to the

That is an insult to the Atheist, Agnostic and Deists of the Founders.

"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of sh*t. And I'd like to get as many of them out in the open as possible. You gotta get together and tell yourself stories that violate every law of the universe just to get through the goddamn day? What's that say about your reality? " -- Rustin Cohle "True Detective".

I don't need your faith to be a moral person.

"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that." — Alan Greenspan

C_T_CZ's picture

Liberty for all...

Is what made America great and a shining example for the whole world.

Proclaim LIBERTY throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof

Always saying something in

Always saying something in complete ignorance is no way to go through life son. Also drugs being legal or not and its correlation to usage is entirely a separate matter from whether it is objectively right or wrong to do drugs.

Thanks Dad......

glad I could make you proud.