40 votes

Want to see my new place in the Chilean patagonia?

All the freshwater we can drink.
All the wild, chinook salmon we can flyfish.
All the dungeness crab, mussels, clams, and conger eel we can eat (when at high-tide).
First project: Build a greenhouse and a rainwater catchment system for the existing house.

Anyone who is truly curious about buying down here, just ask in this thread. Please don't PM me, I won't answer. I'm not selling anything and am not affiliated with anyone who is. But if you want to come to Chile, I do want to help as an advice resource in making the move to Chile easier. This place is fertile ground for those who love liberty. It will be the best decision you ever made.

Will provide a Chile update soon, with an eighteen-months-later perspective. We've never been happier here.

I also answered a few of your questions in the comments section below.

Click on the image below, for ultra-high-resolution.

Hugs from Chile.



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Love it!

I have been looking into Chile for a while now. Eldest daughter and I have been learning Spanish at the local community college where we live in MD. I loved your previous post with 150 reasons. I had already put together some reasons to try to convince my wife. That list really helped.

I have a small IT consulting company in the US, and I saw some nice opportunities offered by the Chilean gov't to get out of the way and allow folks to easily set up and get started with business there.

I would eventually like to be in the south of Chile as that climate is much preferred by me. The north is a little too hot for my liking (but so is summer here in MD!). We have had quite a mild one though this year. I have no problem with cold, snow, etc.. I do have a problem with hot (over 75). But I do like the four seasons. I am supposing that with the IT stuff, I will have to stay in Santiago or Valparaiso for at least awhile before getting my feet under me.

Anyway, we were supposed to make our first visit last month, but we had some major setbacks. My wife's health. My mom's husband died (they had been slated to watch the kids for us while we take our first trip). And my grandmother was in sudden poor health, and eventually did die recently. Bad, bad year. So we are already making plans to come next year in July. I know it is winter there at that time, but like I said I prefer not summer.

My eventual dream scenario is that I either work for or set up my own IT consulting company (software or security preferably), stay in Chile from Jan to Aug and be in MD from Sep through Dec.

What do you think? Any glaring holes in that proposal generally? Do people work virtually there a lot like here? Could I move between the two countries on that interval keeping US as home base for a little while before making the complete transition to Chile?

If I have work in both countries, will that present tax problems at home?

I realize you may not have answers to any of these questions, but I figured I would throw them out in case any onlookers may have some clues.

I am continuing to research these issues independently, but any anecdotal info is more than welcome.

Thanks!

Please elaborate

Could you please elaborate on "nice opportunities offered by the Chilean gov't to get out of the way and allow folks to easily set up and get started with business there."

Are your referring to the "StartUp Chile" initiative mentioned here? http://www.dailypaul.com/295334/we-left-the-us-we-chose-chile

He's talking about the law passed in 2013

that made Chile the quickest, easiest, and cheapest place to form a corporation. Free, five minutes, and on the internet. Now, if they just do something about high VAT and corporate taxes...

Hugs from Chile.

No problem with that plan at all.

Your physical location doesn't really effect your US taxes unless you're living abroad for 11 months out of a calendar year. If you can make it work financially just do it man.

Nice Thread!

Hi there,

My woman and I have been tossing around the idea of getting out of the new Nazi Germany, oops I mean Canada, ourselves and heading down to South America.

I'm a boat captain and not much else and my gal is also a boat person. We both have great government jobs, but we were wondering what kind of job opportunities there are down there for us boat people...?

Have you any idea? Any tips?

Thank you

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Hey Archons', we are taking our planet back and there's nothing you can do about it!

I'm from Argentina.

Lets swap places. I would be glad to leave the POS country and move to Canada.

Opportunity: catered, private fjord cruises for 2 to 4 guests

Sail or motorboat, sufficiently appointed for luxury cruise for 2 to 4 people, fully catered by captain and first mate, doing tours of the gulf of Ancud, Seno de Reloncaví (Reloncavi Sound), etc. I don't think anyone is doing that, and people pay good money to be shown the patagonia in private luxury. And Chilean business owners don't have an eye for detail, or understand creature comforts like Americans and Canadians do, giving you a distinct advantage.

Hugs from Chile

Thanks Ellie

I appreciate the thought for sure, OF COURSE that would be the PERFECT idea! We will mull this one over real hard, you already rubbed the bottle and stirred the Genie, thank you Very Much!
Hugs back at you from Vancouver Island.

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Hey Archons', we are taking our planet back and there's nothing you can do about it!

Answering your questions

I'll answer your questions, but please also first take a nice, long moment to read my article I wrote last year, WE LEFT THE US, WE CHOSE CHILE, linked below.
http://www.dailypaul.com/295334/we-left-the-us-we-chose-chile

On this property, get five bars of 3G where we are, so we have limitless internet, and good enough for Netflix, etc. Buying coastal property in a remote area is strategically a smart thing to do (in Chile at least), because you get to take advantage of existing 3G wireless infrastructure that they put in for the Navy, merchant fleets, salmon and mussels industry, and small boatmen. This saves you the loads of money you would otherwise need to spend in order to get internet to your property.

We are nowhere near Punta Arenas, and the weather is not like Alaska. It's more like Northern California without the liberals and in-your-kitchen government. Here's a link to the climate of Osorno, a nearby town. It might surprise you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osorno,_Chile#Climate

We had considered Chiloe. Chiloe is beautiful, but it's not BBEEAUUTTIFFUUULLL!!!! Rather than dramatic, steep gorges, fjords, and mountains, it's largely sloping green hills. It's known more for its distinct identity, considered the 'spiritual navel of Chile.' It's also a much longer drive (and ferry ride) from Santiago.

Gun laws are relatively lax in Chile. You can have up to eight guns per household (there are creative ways to loosely define 'household' in this matter). Based upon how many guns you own and what type, this won't work for some, and will work for others.

To buy real estate in Chile, you don't need permanent residency. To buy land, you simply need to get an investor's tax ID number, free and easy to get. Indeed, buying real estate works in your favor during the visa process. We decided upon 'visa de rentista' (retiree visa) because I own a company in Texas, and didn't need 'a job in Chile'. Their immigration program is far more sensible (and strict!!) than in the US. Their belief is that if you want to come to Chile, you must be able to prove that you can sustain yourself, without help from the government, otherwise, your visa is not renewed. Novel concept.

Learn spanish. If you're looking to live in remote areas and become part of the community, communication will be key, and most in rural areas don't speak anything other than the lingua franca.

Our neighbors are wonderful, patagonian rural folk. Almost stereotypical, with wool sweaters and basque berets. Gentle and available, they bring us eggs and freshly-baked bread. They sell us patagonian lamb at dirt-cheap prices (considered by many to be far superior to the Segovian lambs of Spain).

One of the structures on our property is a 'cocina Chilote', a Chiloe-style kitchen. Separate structure that acts as a smokehouse for preserving meats. A bench rings the fire in the center for community interaction. The smoke rises and exits the vented cupola at the top. next to it, is a fully-functioning water tower, wreathed in ivy, that is serviced by three wells on the property.

Establishing a bank account and a non-prepaid celphone account was a nightmare, because I didn't know how. Now that I know how, I hope everyone learns from my mistake. Here's the idiot-proof process: Step-1: Find an attorney and accountant. Enlist their services to establish an LLC (called an SRL here) with you and your spouse as officers. Likely, the type of SRL will be an 'inversiones' SRL, enabling you to buy and sell properties, and be spared a good bit of VAT during your improvements phase. Step-2: Have the attorney / accountant help in setting up a bank account for the SRL. You can set one account up for each officer, if you like. Step-3: Transfer a balance from the US to this account (easier than you think). Step-4: Now you can apply for a celphone plan.

Attorneys and accountants are quite affordable here, and invaluable in helping you navigate several legal and tax processes here. For example, I let our househelp go, in preparation for the move south, and the attorney assisted in the employment termination process, ensuring that all taxes are paid and all steps followed, to avoid problems in the future. Something I would not have been able to do by myself.

Speaking of househelp, it's also quite affordable here, and crucial if you have children. We pay about $450 a month for five hours per day for a live-in maid. Amounts will vary based upon what you need, who's doing the work, their capabilities, where in Chile you are, if they are live-in, or live elsewhere, etc.

One of the questions was about the job market - specifically for general contractors. The north and central Chile housing markets are slowing down, but the south (patagonia, osorno, puerto varas, puerto montt, etc.) continue to go strong. Three main reasons: 1) the south continues to be THE destination for expats with dough looking to relo or build a second home. 2) The south drips from the lips of every dreaming sanatiaguino (person from Santiago), who is looking to escape the big-city rat race, and search for a healthier place to raise chilren, or to retire. 3) the salmon industry is, I believe, the biggest in the world, and it's only in the south, so there is a tremendous amount of wealth, and low unemployment down here. As a result, there continues to be a high-demand for housing. We're embarking on a speculative new construction project in a couple of months that will target the mid-high demographic.

If you have a pension that doesn't have a treaty with Chile (like the Canadian person who asked), who says you need to bring the pension over? Leave it in Canada, and simply draw on it, purchase with your bank card, and make occasional transfers to your Chile bank account. Get creative; it's worth the effort.

Somebody asked about land prices. That will be governed by a few factors: proximity to large cities (and their hospitals and airports, etc.), existing infrastructure (electricity, water, etc.), your own perceptions of value, and your own sense of urgency to get things done and in place. One tip, though, is that you will likely not find your dream property on the real estate websites (and unfortunately, there is no MLS here). You MAY find something on Chile's Craigslist (www.YAPO.cl). You will have better luck finding your property by identifying a region that resounds with you, and getting to know the people of that community. Soon, you'll hear someone say, "I have a cousin who has a friend who has an aunt who has a property. It's not for sale, but you can make an offer." That's how we ended up finding our property. We knew someone who knew someone. It was never on the market, and the seller seemed to be a 'distressed, motivated seller.' The purchase process was effortless. We enlisted an attorney to do a title study 20 years back, to ensure no complications on the title (leins, claims, etc.), and once price was agreed-upon, we sent a wire for the full amount to the attorney, who acted as the escrow service. Important to find a reputable attorney for this!! This attorney was THE notary for the entire town. Three days later, the wire is with the attorney, the papers are signed, and ten days later, the title is registered in our name. Easier than I imagined.

In Chile, when you own your land, you OWN your land. Land ownership here seems more sacrosanct than in the US. Property taxes are virtually nonexistent on rural, agricultural land. I'll enlist the help of an accountant to get this exemption.

There are some regulations with respect to what you can and can't do on your land - limited mainly to pollution, and minimum subdivided size of rural land (no smaller than one acre).

In times of economic hardship you DO want neighbors, just not a lot of them. These neighbors will become your mutual support structure, and your extra pair of eyes when you are away, etc. We had thought for a while about having our Y2K homestead on several hundred hectares (one hectare = 2.47 acres), but we thought about the neighbor factor, important to us.

Our new property is in a fjord, at the place where the river meets the sea, so the water is brackish. Not a lot of mosquitoes, even in January when it's season. Certainly not as bad as some of the islands off the coast of Chiloe that we were looking at... I've included a picture at the bottom of our wood-fired tub, at high-tide.

Hugs from Chile.

Made it as far south as Chiloe

on my one visit to Chile about ten years back. Very nice, it looks like you are
well south of there? I have some American friends living a ways south of Bariloche
just on the Argentine side of the border. They like it and have permanent residence now
although they went through a lot of bureaucratic hell to get it.

My favorite city was Valdivia, which reminded me of Eugene, Oregon and the surrounding
area was a lot like Oregon's Willamette Valley - minus about 90% of the urban sprawl and
crap...

I remember being *really* impressed by the water - especially since on my way there I had
to spend a couple nights in LA where the tap water was truly disgusting. The tap water in
Santiago OTOH was very drinkable, at least as good as Portland, OR, which is about as good
as it gets in US big cities. Further south it was even better...

Looks like they may have finally killed the mega HidroAisen project that wouldn't have done
a thing for your view (or for the salmon) unless you are even further south than that:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/10/us-chile-hidroayse...

Just how cold and miserable does it get there in winter?

Isn't it sort of like Alaska -- a great place to be half of the year?

Bill of Rights /Amendment X: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Do you need a politician or judge to "interpret" those 28

Just beautiful!

Looking forward to update and hopefully more pics.

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Anonymous
http://youtu.be/cjkvC9qr0cc

Climate?

I just looked at a 10-day weather forecast for Patagonia. Thunderstorms daily for the next 10 days. Hey, I know it's winter down there; still? What's it like, year round?

You're located on a salt marsh? Bountiful bugs? Do I see forests across the bay? A lot of those around? What towns/cities are nearby?

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose

Oops

Looks like that weather forecast is for Patagonia, Arizona!
Here's a forecast for Punta Arenas a Chilean city in Patagonia: http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/CIXX0017
Looks like winter to me.
Punta Arenas has an oceanic climate bordering on the tundra. Highest recorded temperature is 79* F!

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Anonymous
http://youtu.be/cjkvC9qr0cc

I hope against hope that

Chile and other countries can permanently escape the iron fist of the US government. But Chilean policy need only slightly conflict with US orthodoxy (particularly with respect to the War on Drugs or monetary policy), and they could be a target too. Just see "South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut" to get an idea about the excuses the US will use to go to war. The movie is a slight exaggeration, but only very slight.

I really envy expats. I will

I really envy expats. I will join you as soon as its financially possible.

Nicaragua

Up and coming...

Please tell us more :-)

We live in Panama now and want to check out Chile early next year. What are the land prices where you are? What kind of citizenship/Visa did you decide on? How long have you been there? I'd love to hear more about Chile and the day to day life there. Please share more :-)

What do you do for your bank account?

Since in foreigners can't open up bank accounts. Can foreigners be hired for work? How long can foreigners stay?

Yes, foreigners can be hired for work.

It is one of the only ways to get a long-term visa. You can show up on a tourist visa as well, which has a limit of three months. It doesn't mean you really have to leave though. Just take a road trip into another country, turn around and come back. Now you have new three month tourist visa.

I still have a US bank account. Major credit cards are accepted everywhere and you can use ATM machines for cash. It would be a good idea to call your card company/bank and tell them you're travelling abroad, though.

Oh, and have more than one in case you lose a card. I would even suggest having more than one card on each account, activated or not in case of a loss.

Work in Chile

Hello, I'm a general contractor in Colorado. How is the job market there? I would be interested in moving somewhere near the Andes but don't have a clue where to start finding work. Any advise would be greatly appreciated!

The first step is learn Spanish

There's work opportunity, but you would be limited without it. Tons of construction going on. If you were a bilingual English speaker, I'm guessing that could open up some unique opportunities with construction/engineering companies.

I don't know why people leave

I don't know why people leave America.
Just wait a while.
We'll be a 2nd rate country with wall-to-wall petty thieves and bribe taking police in a few more years.
The government will fall apart just like all those South American places, then freedom lovers will be better able to stay under the radar, especially out in the country -- Just like Argentina, Chile, etc.

Debbie's picture

LOL

Prob'ly true...

Debbie

Beautiful Picture

What were the biggest obstacles you encountered when you moved?

Cool. I am curious about a

Cool. I am curious about a few things. What kind of internet speeds are possible? What is the local attitude toward Americans? Is there an issue with crime?

Internet speeds are great.

You could get a 50-60 Megabit per second connection in the $60/month range. If you're curious about that and other things, including my own experience with the petty theft that Hank mentioned, I've got a vlog series on a couple of countries, including Chile:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC57-jqLdp2CDzCcw3MauMFQ

I live in Chile

I live in Santiago, very far from Patagonia.

Internet speeds are fine. I have a 12MB fiber optic at my house. I can get faster, but I dont need faster. In the evenings we have two different devices streaming Netflix while three people browse on tablets. No issues.

People here seem to like Americans. They use the term Gringo but dont mean for it to be derogatory. Lots of people like to talk about NY. I have never been which confuses a lot of people.

There is not lots of violent crime but theft and property crime are pretty common.

Chile currently has a socialist president and there are often violent protest to try to move the country further to the left. I think the environment is good for freedom right now but I am not sure if you can say the same in 5 years.

Hey Hank, let's connect

I was in Chile up until June, and I'll be returning in a couple months. We should meet up.