7 votes

Police: Teen Fatally Shot By Ferguson Officer Was Suspect In Convenience Store Robbery

It appears that Mr. Brown had committed a strong armed robbery when captured and killed by police. Any thoughts?

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08/15/state-troopers-walk-s...



Trending on the Web

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Is the world better off with this teen thug dead?

More likely than not.

Do I think he should have died like he did? No, simply because if we don't live by laws, to determine punishment for crime, the force of government can be applied indiscriminately to any of us. Of course we don't know all the facts yet about the shooting, and it may not have been the execution that the liberal press seems to want us to believe.

It is interesting how knowing about the unrelated robbery has an influence on how people can view the shooting.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

Public Relation men worked overtime to steer emotions.

Is the Fog of War being used to obscure investigation?

Free includes debt-free!

Reading comments below makes me sad

Some people have zero analytical skills.

Here is what we know:

Brown stole cigars from convenience store. (Swisher sweets)

Owner went to stop him and brown pushed him back out of the way.

Shortly thereafter one eye witness stated he was trying to avoid apprehension, ran away and was shot with his hands in the air.

Police state that he was struggling with the suspect in a fight (inside the police vehicle) and was shot during a fight in which brown went for the officers weapon.

We also know CNN has been misleading their viewers by purposely editing out the part of the video where Brown shoves the clerk. Also the media is fueling speculation that it either wasn't the same person, or that it doesn't matter even if was. Clearly it matters if it was him, and we know it was him. (This shows both motive and capacity for violence.)

We also know police are not making public the police report about the shooting incident.

We know cops sadly kill people with impunity and police deserve all the scrutiny in the world, many of whom should be serving life sentences. Nevertheless this officer is innocent until proven guilty and right now all we have is hearsay.

Everything else is speculation.

Not

We don't KNOW any of this. It is all alleged, and poorly at that given the delay and lack of transparency by the authorities. In THIS country even a dead man is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of his peers after having all the evidence presented in an adversarial forum. And since Officer Krumpky removed the possibility of a trial, Mr. Brown will remain forever innocent. The only question of guilt before the law at this point is of the officer's culpability for murder. If you think otherwise, you can take your second passport and go back to where you came from.

Denise B's picture

I saw one of the

investigators on tv this morning and he clearly stated that they had not known about the earlier robbery prior to the incident. Although seeing the robbery certainly may change your opinion about the man that was shot, it had nothing to do with the actual incident.

I agree with the poster below in that we should reserve judgment until all the facts are known, but that being said, I can't help but feel that the killing of an unarmed man seems unnecessary and avoidable. Why not shoot him in the leg or taze him? Why do they always seem to shoot to kill whether or not the circumstances warrant it? There was a time in this country when the police valued human life and would not shoot to kill unless there was a clear and present danger to their own lives. Now it seems, every action is immediately deemed as a threat and every shot made is intended to kill and quite often in cases where the actual danger to the officer is suspect at best. Somewhere along the way the police in general have seemed to change their attitudes from protecting the people to protecting themselves from the people. Everyone is viewed as a potential criminal and every shot made is intended to kill. Shoot first, ask questions later. The value of human life is no longer recognized as it is once was in this country and it is reflected not only in how the police behave but in so many other facets of our lives as well. How very tragic.

This here.

It would be very interesting to see the numbers of officer involved shootings in the US through the years and compare that with population and crimes committed.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

meekandmild's picture

Does anyone else find it interesting that police offer

only 2 photos to claim Brown was involved in a robbery instead of releasing the full video?

Ferguson police release convenience store surveillance video

Video captured from two different angles released by the Ferguson Police Department from surveillance video that appear to show a confrontation at a convenience store. Police say Michael Brown allegedly participated in a strong armed robbery at the store.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/multimedia/videos/html_9cdfc317...

Let's wait for the trial

What happened in that store was a felony. It speaks to the mental state of the "victim". It tells me the guy was a predator and a bully, likely criminal and definitely dangerous. Not a gentle freaking giant.

I want to know who the multiple witnesses are. The one most quoted had just robbed a store. Is he reliable?

If the guy was on his knees hands up, and then was shot, it was murder. Maybe the cop was mad or scared after being assaulted and took him out on his knees.

If the guy was fleeing from a beat down of a cop when shot, it was not. Maybe the shots were fired prior to the "surrender". Maybe the hands went up, but then the suspect made an aggressive mood forward.

Simple as that.

Here is the only other eyewitness account i could find...

"Piaget Crenshaw, 19, said she was waiting for a ride to work when she saw a police officer attempting to place Brown in the squad car. She then said she saw the teen, hands in the air, attempt to flee. Several shots hit Brown as he ran, Crenshaw said. She complied with a request that she give photos of the scene to authorities."

A couple of things to note: How do you handle someone running away with hands up? Is that aquesence?Isnt that account different from the "on knees, hands up" account? Does what happened prior to that point play into it? Also, note that there appear to be still pictures in the possession of the police. Maybe that will help.

But, I am not willing to condemn anyone on the word of the thug that robbed that store. So we need to consider other witnesses. And maybe we have them. But I promise you one thing; those witnesses are not you.

Rememeber, when society gets stuff like this wrong, there are multiple things at stake here. If the police are allowed to murder people, the consequences are obious. But if the police are hung out to dry when involved in justified violence as a way of appeasing angry, racially inflamed mobs, there are other equally dire consequences. Finally, if populatons are permitted to vent and take advantage by theft and intimidation of the innocent, there are further consequences.

This is why, the only rational course is to investigate thoroughly and objectively, while policing the streets as necessary.

If...

If this info was legit they would not have waited nearly a week to produce it. Most likely the delay was the result of needing to produce it, because otherwise this officer is guilty of murder. Oops, as it turns out he IS guilty of murder anyway. You shoot a surrendering subject, it is murder. Period.

Let the punishment fit the crime.

Due Process was a founding principle.

Due process is for citizen's also and was denied by officer.

Free includes debt-free!

Running away with hands up is not surrendering...

standing still or on knees with hands up is.

You have an axe to grind. i don't, so I want the truth.

Umm

According to witnesses, he wasn't running, he was standing still with his hands up. Got to read the witness report before concluding something. Plus, it wouldn't have mattered, if a suspect is running away, it's murder to shoot them in the back, even if he was armed, which he wasn't.

his buddy is not the only witness

see the quote for the other witness

Running away with hands up is non-aggression...

While he MIGHT have robbed a store, he MIGHT NOT have robbed a store.

The idea that the police may use deadly force to stop a citizen they suspect of a property crime is wrong.

I'm not against police, in a loose sense, but I am against police using deadly force when someone is running away.

If the people in this area do not support the police, then the police should do what they reasonable can and let the people manage the violence themselves.

Cities that are hostile to order become a shit hole and collapse - like Detroit.

You seem overly anxious to

You seem overly anxious to defend the police officer. That other thug as you keep calling him did not rob the store from the video he gave back the cigarettes that appear to be what Michael is trying to take. You are pushing for calm and waiting for facts to come out about the police officer, yet immediately with out proof condemn one of the witness as guilty. The police testimony gives no indication that the officer was aware of the robbery at the time of the shooting. And regardless stealing cigarettes does not warrent the death penalty.

Only thing that would warrent the officer shooting and killing him is if he feared for his life or lives of other citizens and a person running away doesn't qualify for that, nor does it seem apparent that anyone elses live was in danger.

I do not know the law...

And I dont know if it is permissible for a cop to shoot a fleeing felon. Perhaps you can enlighten.

From the photos, I see a bully... who probably thought he might be under suspision at the time he encountered the cop.

I made it clear, that if the "victim" was surrendering, it is murder. But if all you can give me as a witness is his accomplise in a strong arm robbery against what appears to be a 130lb victim, then you haven't given me much.

I ask you... why are you so fast and hell bent on condemning a cop to a possible death penalty before all the facts are in?

I might be less skeptical if the propaganda machine wasn't first spinning the "gentle giant" crap. That is manipulative, and clearly untrue.

Geeze. What sort of cretans want to brush aside talk of investigation in favor of a hysterical rush to judgement?

NOT a fleeing felon - a fleeing citizen

Crimson your mind set is dangerous.

If this man had escaped jail he might be a fleeing felon, but YOU could just as easily be called a fleeing felon having never committed ANY crime if a cop is able to shoot a "suspected" citizen.

Gentle giant or nasty gang scum, if he is not convicted in court he is innocent until proven guilty.

he's on tape

commiting a felony. And if he was resisting prior to the shooting, that is felony #2.

Regardless, if he had stopped and was surrendering, it is murder.

We just have to find out what happened.

We are not the ones spinning

We are not the ones spinning the gentle giant stuff. Its people like Rush Limbaugh who are pushing it out as a codemnation of supporters, saying they are making that claim. I haven't seen any of this talk on here about how Michael was such a great friendly guy, no that come from those trying to condemn him like Rush and Hannity.

You are automatically saying the witness is guilty, saying his words mean nothing, with evidence showing he wasn't a partner in the crime, or at the time without evidence of the crime even happening, who is jumping to conclusions.

This is what I see as part of the ire in the black community(I am not black myself), is basically the word of the cop is seen as golden for evidence(sorry but cops lie all the time as well just as much as the rest of the populace), yet the word of a black witness is automacally suspect.

Also I personally do not trust the st louis police department to investigate their own members, or any police department as I feel it is in their nature to work to make sure they are always found not guilty and justified.

If you think this cop is going to get the death penalty, you are crazy it won't ever happen, nor have I suggested as such(maybe someone else has not me).

Sorry stop listening to Rush, he is filling your head with Mush. Yes I know its an assumption on my part, but I just heard him spinning the same exact narrative that you are now. I never heard the term gentle giant until Rush started using it, now you.

Evidence

There are eyewitness accounts from two people who were in the store at the time of the robbery, which identify Brown and Johnson.

There is video from two different camera angles showing Brown and Johnson robbing the store.

A police report has been released naming Brown and Johnson as the suspects in the robbery.

False again no one claimed

False again no one claimed Johnson robbed the store, evidence appears Michael did, yes Johnson came in with him, but does not appear to be involved in the robbery, in fact he looks surprised by Browns actions and tries to put back the stuff that Brown is taking.

See again you automatically codemn them but demand patience for the police officer, sounds hypocritical to me.

Edit I realize I am talking to two different posters now. Also the top says lets wait for the trial, which I agree. The thing is I worry their won't be a trial, that the police will do what they can to even avoid charging their own police officer, they will just claim him innocent without a trial or charges filed.

Dorian Johnson

At the very least, he is an accessory after the fact.

DEFINITION

Someone who assists another 1) who has committed a felony, 2) after the person has committed the felony, 3) with knowledge that the person committed the felony, and 4) with the intent to help the person avoid arrest or punishment. An accessory after the fact may be held liable for, inter alia, obstruction of justice.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accessory_after_the_fact

How did he assist him with

How did he assist him with the felony, and or what evidence do you have that he attempted to help him avoid arrest of the robbery?

Again wanting to convict individuals without a trial and proclaiming their guilt, while demanding the cop not being convicted by the public with out a trial first. Double standard here?

Dorian Johnson

He left the store and walked down the street with Brown after he witnessed him commit a felony, didn't call the cops on him after he witnessed him commit a felony, and then lied on TV and said something to the effect that they were just walking down the street not bothering anyone, covering up the fact that Brown committed a felony.

Any one of those things alone are enough to make him an accessory after the fact, and he did all three.

meekandmild's picture

I'm waiting for Feguson to demand the firing of

Police chief, mayor, and city council.

When you assassinate a young

When you assassinate a young person by shooting him in the back repeatedly instead of lawfully apprehending him for a crime in which you inform him of his rights and clearly state the reasons for his apprehension; make no effort to explain what happened, reprimand the officer or show public remorse for the young man's death (even if justified); allow the situation to escalate and then when it escalates impose martial law, including curfews for all citizens (including many lawful ones) you have lost any respect from me you might have had from claiming to be just doing your job.

What are the circumstances under which the reaction by police was justified? I'm thinking a quadruple homicide would be the starting point.

It happens all the time

Let's be honest. People gun down other people all the time. Police are murdered every week in this country.

I don't see people taking to the streets over a cop being "assassinated" or a college professor being beaten to death.

So when a cop kills some guy the false outrage over the "assassination" is ridiculous. Ask the people taking to the streets "where were you for the other 50 murders in St Louis this year?"

Yes I'm against arming the police with military weapons.
Yes I'm against abuse of power.

But this false outrage over some guy hired to do a low-level, low-paying police job killing someone is stupid.

My suggestion is to just dissolve the police in greater St. Louis and let the protesters protect the citizens.

Why isn't Dorian Johnson under arrest?

Also named in the police report is Dorian Johnson, said to have been Brown's accomplice in the robbery. Johnson is also a witness to Brown's shooting and his account of events has been one of the primary pieces of evidence for police misconduct. In Johnson's version of events, needless to say, he and Brown were not perpetrators of a crime.

All of which gives rise to a mystery — why haven't the police arrested Dorian Johnson?

Regardless of whether the use of deadly force was justified as a means of apprehending a robbery suspect, on the police's account of events one of the suspects — Johnson — was very much not dead. Why not arrest him? He isn't missing. He's been doing interviews with TV stations.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/15/6005903/dorian-johnson-ferguson...