34 votes

Michael I cannot overstate the importance of this site.

Michael I cannot overstate the importance of this site. I have been a lurker of late but If you remember me ... You may remember my conversion from a Neo-con warmonger to full blown Libertarian Pastor dude. If money is the issue I am sure people will pony up. I may even open my wallet.

I don't know your reasons ... Maybe your lack of enthusiasm for Rand and the possibility this site may become what it was to his father.

But the bigger picture is this is a place where the community hashes out ideas to their ends. This place is essential as a place to convert others to these ideas. Maybe not all will fall as hard as I did but it is a bridge to liberty and if their is an eternal reward for helping to free people from chains ... Then you indeed have earned points. [be nice evangelicals I am just trying to make a point not state theology]

I hope you might change your mind or find someone who may be able to give you a break for a small cut of any revenue.

If you were a believer [I don't know if you are or not] I would ask you to pray on it.

Rand or not people will be flocking here soon for answers and we [and you] are in a position to give them.

I don't expect you to reply ... But my heart I offer a thanks to you for making this oft times brutal place of debate.

In His service

Pastor Paul ... aka Carpavel.



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#SaveDailyPaul

Banksters and crooks fund the so called main stream media.
The Daily Paul fights for Liberty!

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Big +

That's the spirit!

This site educated 100's of thousands of people all over the world.
And I hope it will never stop in it's blessed mission to Restore the American Republic and bring peace to the people to the long suffering population of this planet.

Thank you carpavel.

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

I did not vote up or down.

I personally feel that DailyPaul is very important and hope that it does continue. However, the owner (Michael), will do what he feels is right for him.

It is up to us to be creative, and utilize other avenues to spread the word. Even if DailyPaul does continue, we should be doing this anyway.

"What if the American people learn the truth" - Ron Paul

Ban Downvoters?! (to THIS thread)

OK! I'M BEING TOUCHY!

This thread had 20 up-votes. Now it has 18.

This site IS important.

For those that don't think so, why be here?

I think owner/mods should relieve you of your membership.

I WOULD!

SICK PEOPLE! ...SERIOUSLY?!

You have voting privileges here because YOU ARE A MEMBER!

WHY do you keep voting down posts and comments that say THIS SITE IS IMPORTANT?!

I'm not usually rude!
But, Get lost! Go de-activate. No love for you on this ark.
Give up your space for someone who appreciates all that is here.

(If you don't want to vote up, fine. But, why vote down? Maybe you're part of the problem?)

Apologies to everyone else.

GOOD NEWS! Michael's back! He's feeling a little better and....updated the ticker! Yea! :)
http://www.dailypaul.com/324088/daily-paul-summer-2014-fundr...

Now it has 19

;-)

"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within" W. Durant

Now 20

!

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Powerful testimony

indeed--thx for sharing, carpavel.

Wish I could do more to sustain such a beloved site also (imagine if Dr. Ron became President Paul too *sigh*), while maybe some ideal will arrive in the future.

Blessings to all

Could someone please help me understand?

I am genuinely curious: why is it so expensive to run the DailyPaul? I've looked through a bunch of the comments on these recent threads but I still don't fully understand.

If I've just missed it, sorry, but could someone please point me to a more concrete breakdown of the expenses?

I don't know much about running a website. I guess I am naive because I thought a site without commerce that is populated mostly by user-generated content was fairly cheap to maintain. It takes time to moderate the content, sure, but that could be done mostly with volunteers, right? Could someone please explain this to me like I'm stupid?

The site is run on Drupal

an open source software platform based on PHP (a scripting language for the web) and MySQL (open source database)(or possibly Postgres or other variant). My guess is it runs on servers that are administered by a Drupal friendly hosting company.

Here's Drupal:
https://www.drupal.org/

If you're truly interested in what it takes to run the DP, download Drupal to your computer and figure out how to get it configured to run and look like you want.

Here's a free platform called MAMP, which will provide everything Drupal needs to run locally, an Apache web server, PHP and MySQL.

MAMP
http://www.mamp.info/en/

What you will run into immediately, is a problem that will take you 4 hrs to figure out. There are many helpful forums and tutorials online to learn anything you need. There's no predicting what your problem will be. It often turns out to be a misplaced period or quote buried in thousands of lines of code. Rinse and repeat, every other day, for as long as you administer Drupal. It's one of the best choices of software.

The web is a constantly changing environment under hostile attack 24/7. Make sure you choose the correct modules to install with Drupal, because they will need updates and patches regularly when they are hacked. The Drupal community provides a helpful email subscription when updates are necessary. Some of these will break your forum, and will require 4 hrs to figure out. It could be something like a misplaced quote buried in thousands of lines of code. You will be wise to run both a test and production environment to avoid downtime at all costs (downtime is very stressful).

If you can get this under control with confidence in 2-4 weeks, on your local machine, you are doing very, very well, and should consider a job with benefits in IT.

Garan's picture

Drupal, then Code Ignitor

I worked with Drupal some.
I eventually lost interest and started to use Code Ignitor instead.

The tipping point for me was seeing that at some point the Drupal developers decided to use munged PHP function names instead of making proper object oriented method calls, for a little performance boost (to the best of my recollection).

I'm not a fan of making a developer's job more difficult in the name of a few more processor cycles. The cost of a faster machine is often less than the cost of human labor (money and time/life). Also, every year machines are upgraded and replace with newer machines, so I little performance cost will simply go away with a little patience (you don't even need to do anything).

So I became disenchanted with Drupal and started using something that felt like a good library to develop from, Code Ignitor.

There may be better solutions now, so I'm not trying to push Code Ignitor. I'm just pointing out that not everything is honkey dory with Drupal.

Well, that's cool

Code Ignitor is a PHP development platform. Drupal is a Content Management System written in PHP. They're not the same thing.

People are asking why it costs so much to run the Daily Paul, and even proposing to buy it to keep it alive. I was trying to suggest both a path to discover how to run the DP (experiment with Drupal), and illustrate that maintaining forum software is expensive because it is time consuming and unpredictable.

I'm sorry...it's not my place to say....but

there was a post+...in summary

-burnout(see lay-offs below) and lack of joy and purpose
-recent drop-off of 2/3 ad-revenue without notice (due to tech issues and/or greedy google? it's happening to a lot of people)
-full-time job for owner, programmer, system administrator (laid-off), moderator (laid-off)

Test?: Don't come here for 10 days or more. If you can't stay away or miss your friends, donate: (also bump and vote-up)
http://www.dailypaul.com/324088/daily-paul-summer-2014-fundr...
(needs $7415 more by midnight 8/31/14 EDT)

Use the amazon link when purchasing there (see 2nd top blue navigation bar on right).
http://www.amazon.com/?_encoding=UTF8&tag=bullnotbull-20&lin...

Click the site ads if helpful.

Why support:
http://www.dailypaul.com/dp-subscribe

Thank you.

[Edit: hmmm, maybe it's a conspiracy to get rid of the liberty resistance? DP leads. We can't let that happen!]

Don't most system

Don't most system administrators and moderators do their jobs voluntarily on most popular forums that have even more traffic than this one? Usually the duties are spread amongst a group of volunteers to ease the work load on each individual, right?

Please tell me if my assumptions are wrong, I really don't know.

I don't know the exact function of the programmer either, but isn't the programming work minimal for a site like this? Why should there be a bunch of programming work?

Again, I really don't know, please tell me if you do. I do understand, though, if the owner doesn't have the will to keep it up without some sort of remuneration.

Because, server space and

Because, server space and bandwidth costs money. The more people that come here the more money it costs because of more connections. The dailypaul could be considered a very popular site since it has 10s of thousands of people visiting daily. The ability to serve all those people this content takes no small amount of computing power.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

Thanks, but I was hoping for

Thanks, but I was hoping for a little more detail regarding the specific breakdown of costs. Just saying it "costs money" and that "thousands of people visiting daily" costs more money doesn't mean much to me, I already understood that.

And isn't the computing power more of a fixed cost? I understand that there is some variable cost to computing power, but more so it is fixed, right? And the traffic seems to be declining or steady over the medium and short term, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I would like to know this as well

I don't want the DP to shut down. This is my favorite site, and my favorite community.

As far as "costs for the site" go...

Michael has said that he had once employed 3 people to handle the site, a moderator, a programmer, and an administrator; and that at one time this could be afforded.

And that ad revenue has dropped, and that he had to fire the admin, and do the moderating himself, and still hires a programmer...

BUT.. I thought Joomla and Wordpress sites were cheap. So I can't quite understand this "This site costs $3k per month to run."

I don't understand why a wordpress or Joomla site cannot be tried and tested right now?

If Michael has stated that "this site is old and falling apart." So wouldn't a REBUILD be in order? If someone can put together a quick wordpress or Joomla site to test, perhaps we could get opinions on that?

Well if you want a breakdown,

Well if you want a breakdown, only Michael can give that to you, but I can give you more detail.
Yes, once you buy a computer, thats a one time thing, so forget that.
In fact, lets just look at the costs you will always have.
One of those is the expertise required to actually run things. People wont work for free. If you have the needed experience, than this cuts the cost here quiet a bit. If your site is large, you may need more than just yourself to keep it up and running.(people have to sleep sometime)
Another cost is that of software need to keep things secured and up to date. Alot of this is done by subscription, some isnt. Cost will vary here of course.
Another cost you will always have is that of energy. It takes alot of energy to run a powerful computer 24/7. Much of the energy used is spent on keeping it cool.

All or some of the above could be included as an extension of the price required if you rent your server space from someone. In that case, prices will definitly vary according to what they charge.

The major factor here is bandwidth. This is probably the singular most variable price point. It entirely depends on what your ISP charges(and/or what the server farm charges if you rent) As you know, the more bandwidth you use, the more they charge you. The more popular your site is the more money you need to spend on it.
Beyond this(and assuming I havent missed any essentials) only Michael can give you the discreet breakdown of what the costs really are and how they are spread about.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

You're right, only the owner

You're right, only the owner can give a real breakdown of the costs (I still am not even coming close to understanding by your explanation, but I appreciate the input). I think that such a breakdown by the owner would benefit the effort to raise money--it has been well-demonstrated that in fundraising, if you give your donors more specifics, you get better results.

In other words, tell the people what their money will buy!

Just for now

"I'd like to bring the Daily Paul into the end of the year - 5 months, 3K per month. That is how I arrived at the figure."
http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/3467430

That is what he needs. Think broader why.

Yes

It's true. This place is going to be hopping shortly as soon as debate season starts. The numbers will be back up again and things are going to look better in terms of visitors to the site.

If the passion just isn't there anymore, that is a different issue. You can't force someone to enjoy doing something they may not enjoy doing.

With that said, I agree that the value of this site is incalculable and I am sure one way or another it's going to always live on in one form or another. Freedom and liberty are becoming more and more popular everyday.

Agreed

And Michael, whatever your reasons may be, please let me relate to you that staying in one place for the long haul has tremendous rewards. If you can hang in there in times when you feel like quitting as we all have at various times, and outlast others you end up with something of long term experience that isn't even possible any other way. I find myself in that position just by staying in one place and not giving up has brought unforeseeable respect and opportunity.
Like Dr. Paul himself. This site is irreplaceable. And valuable. If you have a way open to you to keep it going, I hope you do, for yourself and for us.

"Any government that is big enough to give everything you need is also strong enough to take it all away."

I concur

And I echo your sentiment. DailyPaul is the first thing I look at in the morning and the last thing I look at before bed. I don't really have another source of news, and why would I? This site is invaluable.

DP Invaluable?

Mayor/Captain needs appreciation and some proof.

$15k by 8/31/2014

http://www.dailypaul.com/324088/daily-paul-summer-2014-fundr...

Bump it! Vote it up!

Debbie's picture

Very nice post carpavel!

heartfelt. and I remember you :)

Debbie