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Thank you for a great ride, and for 8 years of support!
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The only REAL thing within this prison planet is Love

World War III already started last spring.
NATO vs. Russia.

Ukraine.



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Your logic is extremely

Your logic is extremely lacking.

Oh look..

you made a statement and didn't back it up with facts or anything for that matter. Let me see...this is where I should say that you "hate anyone that doesn't believe as you do". Right? Just making sure I learn your brilliant ways here. Am I on the right track?

Too Bad

Seems all your reasons for becoming an atheist were words written and spoken by others, videos and other evidence of man's inhumanity to man, and nature being struck down by man. Well, welcome to the "Physical Reality", and if that is where you are stuck, so be it. Unfortunate that you don't realize the "Duality of Man", that being the Physical and the Spiritual Realities. I must live in the Duality of Man in my lifetime, but the Spiritual does offer refuge from the Physical reality in order to make it through this Physical Reality.

May God Bless you in your journey

Hi Legaliberty,

May God Bless you in your mortal journey. I have met so many that walked away from God because of issues at or with their church.

Faith in Jesus has so Blessed my life. I read from the Holy Scriptures each day, and find great peace in them. I also serve at my local Church; service at church brings great peace.

Perhaps try visiting different Christian churches; I have found the Mormon Church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) helps me grow closer to Christ; others find peace in other fine denominations.

Regardless, all the best to you.

Peaceful Thoughts,
Kyle

Only Repentance, and Faith in the Atonement of Jesus The Lamb will Save our Beloved Constitution.

Try reading one verse before you start your car.

Please view my Indie Movie; "Sisters Go Ye Trailer 2" on Youtube

Shame.

Satan has deceived you brother. Seek God while he may be found, call upon him while he is near, please turn around, ask him for forgiveness for your disbelief/blasphemy. God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked.

What does this have to do with being an atheist?

As a person who've read many books on reason, you of all people should know that "wars, control, religion, controllers" have very little to do with a supreme being (i.e. God). Unless of course the books of reason you've read are just as biased as the books of religion you oppose.

Wars have very rarely been fought for God

Even Bush tried to say the Iraq war was what God wanted, but that doesn't mean it's true. Dictators often will play the emotion card to sway an uneducated public. Most people who go into war will claim to be Christian, without even understanding the beliefs that make up a Christian.

God does not allow evil, WE(humans) allow evil.
God CAN fix evil, but will not because then it would break the covenant of free will.
God DOES help us out, however usually only when things are the worst; not when they LOOK the worst, when they ARE the worst.

Unfortunately, people die. Good people. The question we need to ask ourselves is "why do WE allow them to die?" The fathers role is to teach, it's not to take blame for our actions.

Yes, exactly!

Why can't one say just as easily, after listening to the following, "I now am a theist"?

People do good and people do evil. If anything, this should prove that there is a God.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

good sentiment

I had to reread the OP to really discover the today part. Before that I was wondering, "Well, what happened today?" There it was. Watching a video had turned him into an atheist. I though, "Wow, bummer! Hey dude, how about watching different videos. Even for someone already an atheist, those sound like some nasty depressing videos. Change the videos dude! Maybe space or nature, or better yet find a friend, go outside and throw some Frisbee!" :D

I was thinking, "Whoa! If a video can annihilate God for him so easily, then maybe another video could just as easily sway him back around."

You beat me to the punch. :) Wildly interesting video by the way.

Oh Legalize, say it ain't so! :(

God is just as horrified at all this despicable violence as you are! "Yet", one asks, "He will not stop it?". God values, very highly, the free will of mankind--this is one reason I lean toward a libertarian mindset. Calvinistic theology has tainted most people's view of God--making God seem like a tyrant who desires to see people suffer. Please don't believe the lies of the enemy. Much love and prayers.

Christians should not be warmongers! http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance87.html

Vote up , I affirm what you have said, below

( do have a minor quibble an the issue of Calvinism being the problem, Calvin himself was actually closer to Arminius than most so-called Calvinists today, Followers tend to distort to the extreme the words of people, and Calvin is no exception. This same is true of modern Arminians, who are far closer to Pelegian than Arminius himself. What we have expressed by some Calvinists is really closer to "Fatalism")

here are two books you might be interested in reading, if you like:

http://www.ligonier.org/store/john-calvin-his-life-and-influ...

http://www.ligonier.org/store/willing-to-believe-paperback/

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Pendantic Note!

If all this reading below is an impossible chore try listening with a text 2 speech application.

Replies can be youtubes

or by a speech to text program.

Mike Maloney educated himself by listening to great volumes that he found unreadable. He tells his story: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4olmJEICL24

Free includes debt-free!

I personally will always believe in God

I have had too many experiences proving He exists.

Your biggest example is when you read the Bible yourself, you will start seeing where truth exists. I personally now only see the Bible as a giant freedom document.

Old Testament: Israelites go in and out of freedom, with explanations as to why; they are so bad keeping freedom, they are given a promise via Abraham.

New Testament: Christ fulfills Abraham's promise by opening God's kingdom for all who follow Him; Releases slaves from bondage of men(God is the only master, and no man can serve two masters).

The whole book is a book that explains freedom, how to keep it, and why we lose it.

Once I learned to think outside the box this realization came to me, seeing the book as a whole and not chapters really set this up for me.

I think a firm understanding

I think a firm understanding of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics proves the existence of God.

I think you are correct

I also suspect that Kurt Godel's incompleteness theorems relate to the second law of thermodynamics. I've yet to discuss this fully with Cyril though. :-)

For LL, the OP, I suggest clicking the tiny dot in my signature below. There are more observations that support a creation model of origins.

the number "i" and general relativity

The number i was made up by mathematicians who kept running into parts in their equations which contained the square root of -1. "Obviously", since multiplying a negative number by itself ALWAYS produces a positive number, there can't be any number which multiplied by itself produces a negative number. That would be nonsensical! So, for centuries mathematicians just didn't go down that nasty, nonsensical rat-hole.

But eventually someone did. Someone decided to formalize the nonsense by PRETENDING there was a number which could be multiplied by itself to equal -1. They called it "i" for imaginary.

The only problem with the nonsense with i was that it kept appearing with disturbing frequency as a number which HAD To exist in order to describe the function of the universe. Predicting the behavior of radio waves, for example, requires the number i to be used. Put differently, most modern technology -- which obviously exists -- REQUIRES the imaginary number i to be "real". Indeed, the number "1" can be derived from i but i can't be derived from the number 1 so, in a sense, i must be more real than 1 ... or any other "commonsense" number!

Just consider what that says about the "reality" of the day to day commonsense world and the nature of the human brain, and a putative "humanlike" God, in the bigger picture of the universe.

Analogous "aburdities" which HAVE TO BE TRUE underpin much of the predictable, day-to-day functions of the universe which obviously governs our very existence. General Relativity, for example, says that time is a dimension in the same sense as any of the other three. There is that "small" problem in that we can go backward and forward in normal space but not in space-time, but that doesn't change the fact that space-time is real. Space-time being real means that anything which has ever or will ever exist already and forever exists in space-time...even if we can't, as humans, figure out how to visit it. Somewhere in space-time you are not yet born and somewhere in space-time you are long dead. Ponder that...and don't forget to ponder that space-time is NOT mere theory; it is a required element of the universe as it exists to exist at all. In other words, "As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen."

And now tell me how anyone "logically" derived that there can be no God.

Bill of Rights /Amendment X: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Do you need a politician or judge to "interpret" those 28

Faith is spiritual, religion

Faith is spiritual, religion is man made. Men are imperfect, therefore religion is imperfect. Put your faith in human institutions and you will always be let down. I hope you will reverse your decision.

I don't think I'm biologically capable of not believing in God

I think it's hard wired in there down to the celluar level.

Most of those who think so actually don't and most people who think sew actually rip.

It's in the DNA my friend..

you just can't shake that off.

You're right

Smudge Pot,it is hard wired by God Himself :)

He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
Ecclesiastes 3:11

And the Bible also tells us that,"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good." Psalm 14:1

Does God exist? Is there evidence for the existence of God?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Does-God-exist.html

"And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand." Matthew 12:25
http://www.needgod.com/
http://www.geniusthemovie.com/

:)

.

NOSHEEPLE

SteveMT's picture

Your choice of books was a good one.

The Age of Reason was written with such clarity that verse numbers could be given to each sentence. What a great way for you to learn English! The focus of Paine's book was to attack organized religions, holy books that could not have been written by the stated authors, people claiming to get messages from God FOR OTHERS TO FOLLOW, hearsay evidence, magical visions, and people ordering the slaughter of entire populations without mercy and IN THE NAME OF God.

Self evident works of genius like those of Shakespeare, Goethe, and Mozart stand alone and do not require anything else to support them. The Bible and other such books are testimonial works claiming Divine inspiration. Without the presence of the actual people corroborating such evidence, all are books of second-hand experiences and events. Why would God communicate with humans through written words that must be translated into other languages and whose meanings may change significantly with time? It's inconsistent that a timeless God would use imprecisely written words, which may or may not be translatable, to convey knowledge to us.

Reading the Age of Reason should not have made you an atheist. You should have however acquired the skills to question organized religions claiming that they are the only way to God. Whether or not you believe in God is an innate property, a realization that one comes to at some point during one's life. Either you do or you don't. Either it's a given or it is not. There is no clear evidence either way. Basing this decision on man's inhumanity to man has nothing to do with the existence of God, imo.

Peace to you as you consider all of the comments made to your post.

Odd questions..

"Why would God communicate with humans through written words that must be translated into other languages and whose meanings may change significantly with time?"

I'm sorry, please let me know of the ONE SINGLE WRITTEN LANGUAGE that everyone on the planet shares. I haven't heard of it, but it must exist for you to ask this question.

"It's inconsistent that a timeless God would use imprecisely written words, which may or may not be translatable, to convey knowledge to us."

So, my take from this question is this. Why wouldn't God just have it written in a way that we would understand it clearly today, since we don't live thousands of years ago. Again, MY TAKE, and I could clearly be misunderstanding.

If we don't understand the languages and wording of two thousand years ago, would they understand the language and wording that we use today? If they didn't understand a damn thing The Word said, would faith in God have spread and taken hold like it did? I seriously doubt it. Would you read a bunch of "futuristic gibberish" and feel moved? Probably not.

SteveMT's picture

Only one language existed on this planet, until God confused ...

the world by creating languages according to genesis. God created languages to confuse people, which is why He would not have used the same means to communicate with us. God reveals Himself to people in a multitude of different ways, none of which are necessarily with words.

The misinterpreting and misuse of the Bible as well as other religious books are the reasons for the Crusades, wars, slavery, Manifest Destiny, the degradation and abuse of women, all of the religious fanatics/mass murderers who quote religious texts attempting to justify their actions, and religious charlatans. Much of the hate in the world has its origins based on the religious dogma that is written in books.
-----------------------------
Genesis 11:1-9
Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,[a] they found a plain in Shinar[b] and settled there.
3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel[c]—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

Timeline..

Was Babel before of after the time of Christ? And of course you are correct..the writings were used as reasoning, just as I can tell you the reasons why I acted up as a child. Doesn't make it right, doesn't mean that those reasons "made me do it", it just means that words were twisted to get people behind wars, or to explain away the tyranny of evil men.

Unfortunately The Word, when in context, doesn't agree with any of these evil actions. You can use the Bible to prove anything you wish, if you only pick and choose, and most certainly use words out of context. Not one single person has been killed by the Book, much like guns have not killed anyone. They are both tools, it's the crazy person on the other end you need to worry about.

Why would God communicate through written words?

I want to key in on that question. There literally is no better way he could have passed the information down than in written form. That preserves his message in a format that all generations of humans thereafter could utilize. It is the student's job to study the material and separate truth from error. There are small deviations in translations, but by and large, you can pick up almost any translation and get the vast majority of the message. For the small percentage of inconsistencies, yes, you need to put in a little bit of work.

Why doesn't he just come down here and talk with everyone and tell them where the bear does it, you ask? He tried that, you know what the people who heard it said?

Exodus 20:18-21
Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off. Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die.” And Moses said to the people, “Do not fear; for God has come to test you, and that His fear may be before you, so that you may not sin.” So the people stood afar off, but Moses drew near the thick darkness where God was.

God spoke the ten commandments to the people and they got scared. They told Moses to go listen to what God has to say and we will hear you.

SteveMT's picture

See my above answer to Dale.

That answer overlaps with most of your comment.

Are you saying that God made just one attempt to mass communicate and because the people were afraid, He gave up and never tried again?
I hope that the Almighty would have persevered and tried again not giving up so easily.

It appears that this fear put into the people was a royal setup by God and Moses for these people to accept God's orders to kill entire populations from individuals, not God Himself. They should have wanted to hear directly from God these orders to kill without mercy, but they were given through intermediaries. These people were setup to accept such orders without questioning them by this apparent fear so it seems.

Faith in religion

and denominations is not the answer. The only One we are to place our faith in is Jesus Christ for eternal life and our present life. You might say I'm being exclusive, but those are the Words of God Himself in the Bible. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Have you personally set out to prove the Bible false? Josh McDowell did and wrote a book listed below. More books are listed for a skeptic to research.

The Case for Christ
by Lee Strobel

Mere Christianity
by C.S. Lewis

Jesus Among Other Gods
By Ravi Zacharias and Kevin Johnson

Evidence That Demands a Verdict
by Josh McDowell

"And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand." Matthew 12:25
http://www.needgod.com/
http://www.geniusthemovie.com/

Shame

you ran away from organized religion and into the arms of unorganized disbelief... and what's worse is that you didn't do it by yourself.. you didn't sit down and reach enlightenment.. You picked up a book... you read it, you liked it and you read more books 'like' it.. did you even read books countering those new non-beliefs?

You see, unless you give up religion altogether and live your life without having the need to liberate people from religion and save them from wasting their times... you are engaging in a different type of non-religion religion... in other words, substituting one thing for another thing like it..

**

For me, the only sign that I need is in my hands.. I look at them and I ask myself.. "Who do I have to thank for this?"

Think about it.. do you think all of this, our lives, bodies, brain, atoms, physiology, the laws of physics, the ecosystem, micro organisms, quantum mechanics, the weather, the world, THE UNIVERSE could have came about out of chance? and even if you do believe that... what do you think could have kept it up all this long? why didn't it all go out existence the minute it came into it?

(Quran 7:54 )Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!

Huh?

Atom. You criticize him because he doesn't read up on all the bazillion religions out there? That's silly. There are tens of thousands of volumes* at the Theosophical Society in Wheaton, IL,

https://www.theosophical.org/search-sp-1390847245?searchword...

I'm also impressed that you expect him to know what happened 15 billion years ago by rhetorically posing, "why didn't it all go out existence the minute it came into it?

Beats the Hell out of me.

*yet not a thing on atheism. Maybe atheism isn't a religion? Hmm?

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ