16 votes

Thinking about becoming a sheriff deputy

Hey everyone-

So I was deciding to whether or not post on here but seeing as how its 2014 and a lot of the essential posts about campaigns and such are low I figured i'd go ahead and get your guys opinion.

So I am libertarian to the core, however I always had an itch to be a soldier or a sheriff, idk why. I went to a military school and just was fascinated by wanting to be the good guy. With all of the stigmas today about police I totally understand and agree. However I found myself in a very depressed state when thinking about law enforcement as POS. I think there are plenty of bad cops and plenty of good ones, same with soldiers. I think if the intent is there to do good, and you believe in liberty and becoming a law enforcer than it is a different situation. If you join the police force to bully people, have a sense of power, and just be a genuine dick, than those people need to be fired.

I am 24 and thinking about becoming a sheriff deputy. The sheriff is the only form of law enforcement I would be apart of, as they are those who are most accountable to the citizen and the constitution. You see across America like Sheriff joe, libertarian sheriffs who stand up for the rights of there citizens and I fucking love that. I want to be that guy who is the last line of defense (as a government entity) against the tyranny of the federal government. The militia is the true last line, the people, but I digress.

So my question is as a discussion can there be a libertarian sheriff? Is there such thing as a libertarian LEO? I am in California too and I do not about other states but California recently outlawed quotas for departments, so police are no longer required to give out a certain number of tickets. I can give warnings a lot but does that dilute the authority of law enforcement? I don't know, I hope there is a cop out there that can reply as to how their department works as far as integrity being forced, and the integrity and love for liberty by the leadership in their department.

Thanks to everyone for their opinions I just want an open discussion!

Long live liberty and the constitution, I love Ron Paul!

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Follow your heart

Follow your Heart with this one. But if you do it, make sure you have Friends around to bring you make to reality/ Liberty if or rather those times when you get sucked in.

The sheriff is /could be really important in protecting our rights....

Good luck

To the OP: You will be a legal adversary of society

And an employee of the legislature.
Basic civics.

All that said...the more institutions libertarians infiltrate, the better off we will be. Go for it!

Just know the rules of the game and help me change them.

Constitutionally limit the power of the state and federal legislatures.

The sooner we do that, the sooner we fix the government problem we suffer from.

If you need opinions from

If you need opinions from strangers on a message board you are definitely not stable to be a law enforcement officer.

Jeez what a fked up place this has become.

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good things is my religion. Thomas Paine, Godfather of the American Revolution

What is the question?

Do we need cops?

Hell yes. WE need good, honest police officers.

Go for it.

Don't do it

You will be broke. Plus, they make you wear shoes.

Howdy bro I used to wear a gun and a badge

and just between you and me?

I am sick and tired of the whole buinsess. And I was just a warrant officer, HVA protector, the only trainer in this movement of police methodology but we put our own twist on it.

I think other commenters have prepared you for the situation where you get orders that conflict with the situaion and nobody brought up Oath Keepers in previous threads.

This means you have to take the job and let it go when the time comes and say no or even YOU DO THIS AND YOU WILL FIND MY SIDEARMS POINTED AT YOU.

When I took the badge I did so for one reason: my Chief was the greatest man I have ever known and he was so fearless and he always, always did what was right, he always protected the innocent and there was not a demon in this world that he would not stare in the eye.

And I will never be a tenth of what he was. I will spend the rest of my life trying to be a tenth of the man he was and when he passed my badge did too and to really level, I don't care if I never see another gun in my life, I think my duty belt is someplace in the shed with the double mag pouches and the 3 pairs of handcuffs and the this and that and the other and I'm just done.

I mean I'm just done. Then I got into this fight and honest?

I just let the guy beat the crap out of me. You can look at my mug shots. Thing is I knew what I could do to this guy. BANG BANG YER DEAD. But I just don't have it in my anymore. When Chief went that was it, I was only a tough guy to back him up and again, he was the most manly man I ever saw, utterly fearless and I pledged my life: where you go I will go even if it costs me my life. But I'm not really a tough guy, that's what I learned. I am a warrior but I only fight for the poeple and then I had to do something maybe tougher than you will ever have to do as a deputy.

Do I think you are right in saying that there should be good guys in law enforcement?

YES, UNEQUIVOCALLY YES. WILL YOU GET TO SAVE LIVES? YES AND DOUBLE YES YES YES YES.

Will you find as an Oath Keeper that you will be ordered to do things that we should not do?

Yeppers. And that is when you are gonna quit. If you are smart. Because if not, then you will be our enemy and don't think it's retractable and there is guilt by association: you hang out with remorseless killers and that is what you will be.

So I'd rather see you go through academy, learn your shooting and tactical preps, we need that experience but be ready, just be ready to lay down the shield or take it up again in service of the people or....

the very worst might happen. And you know what that is.

So many times my metors have told me "the old school is different, we serve" which often means we pull over a drunk driver and give him a ride home. Now you are not taught to do that, now you want the take-down. And that's not right bro, that's wrong.

But if you can be a Constitutional Sherriff? THAT IS THE PINNACLE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

Would you believe if you take this training you can become a great warrior?

Yes. but real warriors protect and defend the people from ALL THREATS FOREIGN AND DOMESIC AND GUESS WHAT YOU ARE GONNA RUN INTO FIRST?

At any rate I want to tell you to follow your heart. I have never been sorry for helping under the badge, I got to help people in their most extreme need but don't expect me to see you as my friend under the shield, you are automatically my enemy now because I see what this system does to people and now, in my old age, I have been to jail and the guys I trained under were my captors and know what?

Amost everybody I met in jail should not have been there. It's just wrong bro. This is not a system we can ethically support.

But on the other side.....somebody has to be there and we are that somebody so it's not a bad thing in your heart, it's a very great thing to be a warrior for the people.

The only thing is 95% of the time you are folllowing stupid orders and 5% serving the people so I would recommend being a warrant officere and paid gun like I was because we get to selectively enforce the law. Oh you are smoking a joint in public. I don't care. Do you recognize this photograph? Have you seen this guy? He's bad news we gotta get this guy, please help us.

And once you get to Tac LII you are a very lethal warrior and while it totally sucks to kill somebody, you have those skills and one day bro.....

one day everybody is gonna count on you because there really are bad guys out there and people we really seriously need to take down. But if you take this and turn it around, you will be like our own Sherrif Mack who enforces the rightrousness and cares for his prisoners.

I'm not sure if they teach you guys these days what "en loco parentis" means but what it means is as soon as we take a prisoner, we are responsible for their well being which means we have to feed and water them, we have to get them PROMPT AND IMMEDIATE MEDICAL CARE NO MATTER IF THEY INJURED THEMSELVES OR IF WE INJURED THEM IN PROCESS OF ARREST AND WE HAVE TO SEE TO THEIR MEDICAL NEEDS AND GET THEM TREATMENT and that is just part of where I see officers and deputies neglecting their duty.

And I am old school by training, we are all Andy Griffith. And the old school i was trained by will tell you that now the emphasis is on full-spectrum domination and pain compliance and this training and practice will change you in ways you don't want to be. And if you submit and get "badge heavy" then you,

you

my friend, will become our enemy.

And I have just about had enough of this methodology and like the Oath Keepers, you might just find yourself on the wrong end of my rifle and I'm not like you. I'm not a rook. I'm a vet and your year of training will not even close to qualify you against my training and years of experience and know what happens next?

What we all fear as LEOs: somebody's baby has to hear daddy isn't coming home tonigight and he never will. Daddy went by by baby, he loves you but he's never coming home again.

Have you ever considered your wife? Do you have one? Do you ever intend to get one?

Real cop wives become cop supporters and that means the hear all of the nasty shizz bro, the stuff you don't want to tell them but a real cop wife knows we can't and she just has to support us without question and she will hang around with cops and cop wives and this is her life too.

And is this what you want? Cause the cop mentality? One day your dauthter will watch you beat the living snot our of somebody and know what?

Once you see that fear in their eyes.....daddy is a bad man.......

Brother, then she's a cop's kid or she will never trust you again and we just subjected our children to the horror of life way too early. And the cost. You don't know what this does to our wives and our children but the payckeck is so far less that what we need.

On the other hand I have seen good cop wifes that support the mission and we try and counsel the kids, hey this is what daddy does, he gets the bad guys.

I guess what I am saying to you is go for it, get the experience but just be ready to bail the second they tell you to so what you know if wrong because again, you just can't go back on your little girl when she asks daddy, why do you hurt people?

So you are right but you just don't know how wrong it can be yet. But as a father and a parent, the cost is very high.

I don't care if I never see a gun again. I'm sick of it, I have no heart for hurting people anymore but on the flip side,

I DON'T NEED A WEAPON, I AM THE WEAPON. I DON'T NEED GUNS ANYMORE I AM A GUN AND I CAN AND I WILL.....

I WILL YOU KNOW WHAT.

Bless you my son. I will pray you make the right decision for your own life. And take my advice, talk it over with the little miss because if you are gonna tell her you are ready to die in line of service you better make sure she agrees and believes in your mission.

It's not by accident so many movies start out with a divorced cop. Woman don't like being told they are second priority and our first priority is to lay down our lives.

I am Smudge Pot and I used to wear a gun and a badge and honestly I am looking for any way our for you. But I will support you in your decision. And I might just be able to tell you a few tricks.

Bless you son.

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

I've been a peace officer since 2007

I have mixed emotions about encouraging anyone to get into this line of work. Libertarians do not have really successful careers in this business and you will become very negative and disgruntled. I am fortunate that both of my partners are freedom loving patriots. However, you will always be the minority. I cannot believe I have survived in this business as long as I have. I've worked for two large agencies and at both I introduced my partners to liberty. My first partner of 5 years who is still my best friend is now one of the strongest Libertarians I know. He is a Detective Sergeant. I am now at a different agency where I too made Detective. My new partner who I've become close to has also woken up. In helping him see the light I kind of ruined his future as a peace officer because he now hates his job.

You will not do well career wise if you become a cop. I hate to sound negative but it's true. You will be viewed by your co workers as lazy. They will be wrong but that is the way they will perceive you. Productivity and merit is based on drug arrests and ticket writing. Not so much ticket writing at an SO but drugs are an issue. The COPS that do well are the ones making easy drug arrests which means lots of traffic stops and lots of 4th amendment violations. I am the best cop that I know and I don't say that arrogantly but with full confidence. However, a large majority of my co workers probably view me as weak. I always consider how my actions are going to effect all parties involved and my community as a whole when deciding how to handle a situation. My primary goal is always to keep the peace.. In most cases that just means showing up. In some cases it means enforcing laws but that should always be a last resort. i noticed you used the term LEO in your post and you probably noticed I haven't used it once. You need to define yourself early on in your career. Are you a peace officer or a law enforcement officer? Society doesn't need law enforcement officers. Communities can enforce their own laws without cops. Society needs peace officers.

If you do decide to get into this business, your on the right path with considering a Sheriff's Office over a PD.
You will have a lot less pressure to write tickets and fuck with drugs.
I could not start over in my career right now because I would not be able to make it through the training program (FTO) which lasts about 3-4 months. In that time you will be paired with training officers.
You will have little to no discretion. In that time your FTO will try to get you into as many situations as possible to gain experience. This means lots of traffic stops, lots of drug arrest and depending on your demographics you may deal with other VICE stuff too. You will not be able to use common sense or give breaks while in the training program otherwise you will not pass. Which means that for that period of time you will be effecting peoples life's negatively to further your career and make money..

Remember that every ticket you write takes money away from a family that cannot afford to pay your fucking ticket. Every drug arrest you make ruins or at least negatively effects someone's life. You are not making the world a better or safer place by participating in either.

Just leave people alone. Patrol your neighborhoods, get to know your business owners and do thorough investigations when a Complainant reports a real crime like theft, burglary or assault. That is what they pay you for. For me a successful day is getting people their stuff back. I really enjoy tracking down thieves and recovering stolen property. And I had a really good week. This is what the community wants from you. When they call 911 because someone just stole something from them or someone just assaulted them, they want to know that you are going to make a best effort to recover their property and get fair justice or in the case of a crime against persons they want to know that you will protect them from further violence and seek justice when appropriate. If your priority is to clear the call as soon as possible so you can return to making traffic stops and looking for drugs then you are like the other 90% and we don't need you. Your community doesn't need you. They can't afford you....

Now here's the tough part; if the picture I painted doesn't sound desirable then you need to reconsider your career choice. If you think it will be challenging to resist joining that culture of worrier drug cops then you will do just that.. I am fortunate in that I despise them so much that I am at a zero% risk of defecting.

And even I still get involved in situations on occasion that cause me to loose sleep and self esteem. You will often times become a party to joint operations with other officers or agencies in which command decisions will be made that don't align with your personal beliefs. My command staff appreciates me enough for what I do well, which is persons and property crimes, that they rarely ever expect me to participate in anything that doesn't fit my code. But you won't be respected enough in your first 5 years to opt out of operations you don't want to be apart of..

I'm just rambling. Sorry this post has no clear message.. Good luck buddy... I'm really happy for you and I hope you make good choices...
.

Law and liberty cannot rationally become the objects of our love, unless they first become the objects of our knowledge.

James Wilson

YOU EFFING IDIOT

Sorry boss but I'm just a former warrant officer which on common parlance means bounty hunter and all this time....for all these years you have no spoken up and told these young people what it means?

The life full of suck?

I am not a sworn Peace Officer. But I'm doing that "suck air through my teeth" thing which means a pain came that we can't quite ever deal with it just sucks.
Like the kid that somebody used as an ash tray.

Tell them about CISD, Critical Incident Stress Debriefing. Tell them how we cry. Tell them how cops only cry amongst ourselves. And I'm not even a cop but tell them. And tell them what it means to be a good cop and tell me when you do on this board because almost nobody outside the blue knows what we go through.

Im not a sworn peace officer and never will be but not only do these people need to hear, it's part of our CISD to tell them so not only can they rise to the level of community protection but we will try to protect one another as to the horrors we see ever day and that will, bro, that will make them more sypathetic to what we go through and how much responsibility they will take if they do community policing.

My money is where my mouth is, I'm leading training with local Oath Keepers and our intention is to bring the community closer to the cops and the cops closer to the people.

And hey, hang in there baby. Love you.

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

I'm really confused by your response.

Are you intoxicated? Your post doesn't make any sense..

Law and liberty cannot rationally become the objects of our love, unless they first become the objects of our knowledge.

James Wilson

did you get my pm?

I dun tink it is working

Séamusín

wolfe's picture

I think we may have found the one good cop...

You have described yourself as the opposite of every experience I have had. No tickets, no victimless crime bust that turns families into victims, actually trying to solve/prevent real crime.

But as you said, the culture isn't right. Even people starting that are libertarian will be pressured into being the bad guy and will forget principles at some point.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

No you're not rambling I

No you're not rambling I really appreciate your post. It seems I will have more discretion once I have time under my belt, but in the meantime I will be asked to participate in things I don't necessarily agree with. I don't know if I will lose sleep over issuing a ticket to somebody but it will definitely be on my mind I will have wished I didn't have to do it, and hopefully I wont have to do it that often. I can choose to pull somebody over for speeding, or window tint, or whatever it seems like. But at the end of the day I will be required to enforce the law which is what I meant by Law enforcement. I don't understand the whole keeping the peace part does that mean we shouldn't have required patrols? Because I agree with that.

At the end of the day I would be joining the sheriffs office to provide a service to the community based on integrity and justice. I will have the utmost respect for the people I serve and that is where I am at. Is issuing some tickets here and there really a hindrance to the greater goal which is to be a friendly, hard working sheriff deputy for the county and the people.

hey blue

you hang in there.

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

wolfe's picture

Idea...

"At the end of the day I would be joining the sheriffs office to provide a service to the community based on integrity and justice."

Then open up a small local business. That would be providing a service that your community is actually asking for in the form of voluntary payment.

The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.thephilosophyofliberty.com/

I posted this same question some time ago

While I am not currently a Deputy, I am still considering it.
Bottom line is, if good people don't take these positions, bad people will.

I had gotten a hold of Sheriff Mack, who encouraged me to pursue it.
I don't think he'd mind if I posted it, so here is what he told me:

"Yes, I highly recommend being a deputy as the video demonstrates and also as Dpty Stan Lennic
showed in the Albany airport. We named Lennic our Dpty Sheriff of the year (CSPOA) Please see our
website at www.cspoa.org.
I will tell you that we need more constitutional sheriffs and deputies all across this great country. I hope
you are one of them very soon.
On a side note, it is never the Sheriff's Dept., but only and always the Sheriff's Office. A dept. is a division
of some other office. The Sheriff's Office is not a dept or division. It is the office of the people managed by
their employee. It is the high office of the people. The Sheriff's Office.
Good luck my friend,"
Sheriff Mack

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -- James Madison

Office vs Dept.

Thank you for pointing this out.
It's a debate I had with my lieutenant just a couple weeks ago. I won't go into the whole story but I'm glad to see that you posted this. I'm the only other person who I've ever heard mention it.

Black's Law Dictionary:
http://www.sheriffs.org/sites/default/files/tb/SheriffsOffic...

Law and liberty cannot rationally become the objects of our love, unless they first become the objects of our knowledge.

James Wilson

Thanks for your reply I am

Thanks for your reply I am going for the position but there are at least 100 other applicants so I might not even get it. Thanks

yeah and i seen deputies turn green and puke

pickng up DBs.

For benefit of readers, they call.. the used to call us up to do recovery. Recovery in this industry often means picking up dead bodies from the desert.

You don't even want to know but a DB isn't as bad as a slick.

A slick is when a DB is in water and when you try to recover them they just fall apart in the water and then you have to swim. And you are getting dead people soup in your mouth. That is really gross.

Another thing if you handle a DB, well humans tend to decompose into water or fat and the fat gets right into your skin and ever bite of food you take for like 5 days after smells like dead people.

Know what dead people smell and taste like?

rotting meat. pretty much like rotting chicken or beef but knowing this is a human kinda makes it worse. And a rotting human is rather larger than a chicken do to get them into a body bad requires close personal contact. So as I was an
EMT and I have worn every fluid and emmision a living body can emit, I have had dead people juice in my mouth.

THE ONLY REASON I TELL YOU THIS IS BECUASE THERE IS HONOR IN IT.

The very few times I have met the survivors of the deceased they were liek thank you, thank you so much for brining our son or dauthter or husband or wife or aunt or uncle or cousin, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THEM HOME TO US. And they are always like "let us see them" and we never do. Not until we get them through the coronner and into the funeral home where they apply certain arts to kinda make them look like what you knew.

Trust me, when we find them in the desert they are not what you knew and it just so happens that we are able to take this but you aren't.

And this is what it is. Is so frankly "you don't want to know" and we are shielding you from this experience. You really don't want to know. What you want is to mourn your loved one and you kinda need to see them for a last time. And the mortician goes to work and puts all inds of magic on them to make them look roughly like you remember. And we just don't let you view the body unless you need to make an ID because we know how bad you want to see them but we're just not gonna let you because we know. We know what you don't want to.

My name is Smudge Pot and I carry the dead. But if I can just tell you this:

we kept pillows. Why in the world does a dead person need a pillow under their head?

For you. So that we can show you that we carried your loved one in comfort and dignity.

My friend Ed calls himself the Psychic Tax Ride. Well I call myself the Last Taxi Ride. And you are going in style. We even try to play the music you liked in life.

And this is part of what it means. This is just part of what it means.

To be a warrior.

There is nothing strange about having a bar of soap in your right pocket, it's just what's happening.

You already answered your own question.

If you know you're going to feel terrible, how can you even consider being part of something that will make you feel like that? Are you going to have to suppress your true feelings just to be a part of something?

scawarren's picture

I would love for you to be a Deputy in my county.

I tend to agree with Walter Block a lot on this issue and he states it much better than I can...
https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/letter-from-a-worried-l...

It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. – Mark Twain

My approach would be..

Get in 10 years or so and not mention anything about Libertarian/oathkeepers/LEEP or anything like that to your co-workers for a long time. Let them form their opinions of you based on your actions and performance rather some rants over coffee.

deacon's picture

All sheriffs work for the corporation

They do not work for the people,of which they swore their oath to.They actively work against the people,who,by the way used to pay their wages
They fall under the banner of the city,state of which they reside in.They get their pay checks from the city councils,who fall under the corp banner of the state.
They lie in wait to hand out tickets,they check dog licenses,and they work for the courts,All of which are not the jobs of the sheriffs.
They uphold statutes,ordinances and codes,all of which fall under the city,state banner for their corporation...people ARE NOT corporations..
They throw people in jail at the courts whim,when the prosecutor and the judge should be behind bars for violating the peoples rights.
They get their funding from the fed gov,which makes them federal officers.
They throw people out in the streets for home foreclosures,when it is the not the peoples fault,this is court ordered,and violates the rights of the people. They serve papers for court on people when there is NO evidence of the peoples wrong doing..again,court ordered,and violates the rights of the people they swore an oath to protect
deacon

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

American Freedom Fighter's picture

Thanks for lumping me In with

Thanks for lumping me In with the rest of them.. I think this is also how profiling works...

deacon's picture

Did I speak

out of turn, Or tell lies?
You could prove them statements wrong,if you are inclined to do so.
What you find might be surprising.
d

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

I can't see how a "Law Enforcer" could have a libertarian slant

I guess you could disobey your orders to ticket or arrest people if it is for "lifestyle choices" and focus your efforts on helping people when they are assaulted, get in car accidents and other situations like that.

The issue that I could see happening however would be during training or when you have a partner or working with another officer during a stop. If they are NOT libertarian at any level, it could make for a very hard work day continuously.

Now if there were more deputies who were libertarian then it could be a big bonus for everyone. The sheriff is the law of the land and what better department to take over then the one with the most pull.

Only YOU will know if it is possible to be a libertarian deputy. It would be based on your actions and what you do in your day to day duties.

http://shelfsufficient.com - My site on getting my little family prepped for whatever might come our way.

http://growing-elite-marijuana.com - My site on growing marijuana

Yeah that is my question. Can

Yeah that is my question. Can I refuse to arrest non violent drug offenders on my patrols, or can I just site them with a ticket?

Go private instead of Private

An alternative to consider.

Start a private security/police company. Offer policing services. Become an example of how privatization of safety and security can work, work well and be beneficial to your community.

If you feel strongly that you want to protect and serve, define what those terms mean between you and your customers and provide for them.

If you think that the current forms of policing are doing it correctly, then absolutely spend some time getting experience in how they do it. If you do not think it is being done well, efficiently, properly or morally then get creative and come up with new ways to do it.

I just received my private

I just received my private security paper work and that is definitely a route I have open. Considering I don't have to pull people over for speeding etc. I can still provide some sort of deterrence on real crime. If I can carry a gun with the company I will more than happy join, if not than no.

Criminal for hire.

A cop does what he is told or he is fired.

Your commanding officers will not be Libertarians. Your partners will not be Libertarians either.

You will swear to defend the Constitution and violate Constitutional rights your very first day on the job, and become an enemy of freedom.

For example:
Since the Constitution had to be amended to enact Alcohol Prohibition, what do you have to do in order to enact Drug Prohibition?

The only way a drug war can be waged on the people is for people like you to violate the people's rights...every day.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty" TJ

American Freedom Fighter's picture

I disagree

I work in the field. I do what is right. Period. There is a way to do It right and a way to do it wrong. Sometimes it take going over the man above you. Sometimes it doesn't. If you get in to do the right thing, you will be fine.