21 votes

Do you have your ID on you?

I wanted to bring up a situation over this last weekend that involved my Driver’s License, or as otherwise put my ID. I was getting ready to go out for the day on the lake with a few other people and instead of carrying my wallet with me (which I would not need in the middle of a lake) I chose to leave it in the vehicle’s glove compartment. My cousin noticed that I was putting my wallet in the compartment and said, “You’re not taking your ID?” It caught me off guard a little and I replied, “What would I need my ID for?” To paraphrase, he explained that if we were to get pulled over on the lake by the county sheriff I would need to have my ID on me if asked to produce it. I could feel myself getting angered (not at him but at the mindset we as a nation are employing) and explained that if asked to produce my ID I would simply let the officers know I had left it back at the dock as I didn’t feel a need to carry it on the lake. After all I do not have a boating license and therefore my Driver’s License would obviously be insufficient for operation of a boat/vessel. I would simply identify myself by name and if that wasn’t sufficient then I’d let the officers kindly explain why I need to be identified with State issued photo ID when I’m not driving, operating a vessel or giving any probable cause as to cause a request to produce it.

He went on to tell me I’d basically be hauled to jail if I didn’t have this sacrosanct piece of plastic on me. Obviously I didn’t wish to ruin the all day excursion if by chance we should get pulled over, therefore I opted to take the half ounce ball and chain and grimace in disgust at the utter apathy we as a nation are displaying more and more.
I just wanted to share in order to start a conversation and perhaps allow others here to express their disdain towards the so-called authorities of this nation.

Peace and Love always.

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There's a such thing as a

boating license?

Defend Liberty!

scawarren's picture

Some states require that you

Some states require that you have a special endorsement on your license before operating a boat on public waters; I believe that's what he's referring to.

It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. – Mark Twain

But it's cool

But it's cool cause if u were born like 93' or earlier ure grandfathered in and don't need a license.
Don't know the exact year.

AUM

That's NOT 'cool', they do

That's NOT 'cool', they do that so there is no out cry, then year after year this insane demand creeps up on more and more people, until all are punished!

Your cousin is what the people of Russia would call a

"useful idiot."

If your cousin is offended by that term, or doesn't understand right off the meaning of it, have them look it up on Wikipedia.

no legal obligation to have id

but many governments insist you identify yourself by stating your legal name and address.

Each state is different, but

If you're in Texas, here you go. CAP EMPHASIS is mine.

Sec. 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY.
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has LAWFULLY ARRESTED the person and requested the information.

(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a FALSE OR FICTICTIOUS name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:

(1) LAWFULLY ARRESTED the person;

(2) LAWFULLY DETAINED the person; or

(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a WITNESS TO A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.

(c) Except as provided by Subsections (d) and (e), an offense under this section is:

(1) a Class C misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or

(2) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).

(d) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that the defendant was a fugitive from justice at the time of the offense, the offense is:

(1) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or

(2) a Class A misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).

find and replace

Sec. 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY.
(a) An avatar commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has LAWFULLY ARRESTED the avatar and requested the information.

(b) An avatar commits an offense if he intentionally gives a FALSE OR FICTICTIOUS name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:

(1) LAWFULLY ARRESTED the avatar;

(2) LAWFULLY DETAINED the avatar; or

(3) requested the information from an avatar that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a WITNESS TO A CRIMINAL OFFENSE.

(c) Except as provided by Subsections (d) and (e), an offense under this section is:

(1) a Class C misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or

(2) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).

(d) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that the defendant was a fugitive from justice at the time of the offense, the offense is:

(1) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or

(2) a Class A misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).

Notice it diesn't say you have to produce an government issued

ID card.

And I also notices your caps which emphasize the very limited circumstances where it is unlawful to provide such information which might be contained on such an ID. (that is, verbally with no actual requirement to produce any such documentation)

A 'stop' is not a detention or arrest. That leaves only the question of if the peace officer believes you to be a witness to a criminal offense as stipulated.

Also notice it says PEACE officer. Not everyone with a uniform is a peace officer. In some states, POLICE officers specifically are not. I'm guessing there are separate statutes for them.

Totally agree on all

To me it looks like the worst (since I'm no criminal!) I would end up with is a Class C misdemeanor ticket that I could get nullified later in court.

Statute is not Law

One of the crimes of the millennium is a fraud in progress whereby some people are falsely claiming that their orders of obedience, to be obeyed without question, are laws.

That is a damn lie.

That is a fraud upon good people.

Those supposed laws are called Statutes.

Statutes are not laws.

Statutes are agreed upon boundaries that are followed by the people who agree to stay within those boundaries, or failing to stay without those boundaries will result in specific consequences including the same affordable access to law given to anyone anywhere in time and place.

If someone accuses someone of a crime, then the accuser affords lawful remedy to the accused.

If someone can prove that someone agreed to stay within the boundaries of a Statute, and according to the Statute the punishment for going outside the Statute is a fine, or removal from the jurisdiction where the Statute is enforced by those who enforce the Statute, then a common law trial by jury, as explained in the Bill of Rights, is the law of the land, and the due process that determines the facts in that case. The common law jurists decide the facts of guilt or innocence, the Statute, the Law, and the punishment if any.

The frauds who are perpetrating the false idea that a Statute is Law are getting away with that fraud in many place at this time; but people are discovering the facts on their own volition; so the fraud is losing the power of falsehood one step at a time.

Statue is not Law, and if innocent people are being injured because the criminals inspired by the fraud, or the criminal frauds who know it is a fraud are perpetrating these crimes of injury upon the innocent, then knowing that fact, that it is a crime, is one more potential jurist added to the pool.

Good example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SWuXncoKsM

Trial by jury is ancient law, surviving today, despite all the frauds making the claims of absolute authority as they continue to write their Statutes. The criminal fraud have gone so far with their claims of authority as to attempt to destroy trial by jury with false laws that are merely Statutes, supposedly covering the behavior of jurists in a jury trial.

When someone claiming to be an authority orders a jurist to obey the order to "judge only the facts," or some other nonsense, the actual people selected to be on a jury can then realize who, at that time, in that place, is the judge of guilt, innocence, facts, law, Statutes, and punishment, in that case.

Joe

I don't think you paid any attention to the comment you are

replying to.

Try again.

Succeeding again

"A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name..."

Those are words on paper, written by people who intend to perpetrate a crime, if they can get away with it.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_tra...

or

http://blogs.archives.gov/prologue/?p=13050

Quote_______________________
Article the seventh... No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Article the eighth... In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Article the ninth... In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
______________________________________________

Back to the fraud:

"A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name..."

Frauds confess when the perpetrate fraud, each time. Frauds have no power when frauds are found out in fact.

Joe

The simple rules when dealing

The simple rules when dealing with police encounters is to provide as little information as possible. The only time I carry ID is when it's required by law, like when driving. Otherwise when asked for ID, the first thing out of your mouth should be, "Am I free to go?" If "Yes" then keep your mouth shut and leave. If "No" then ask, "Am I being detained?" If "Yes" then make your lawyer out to be the bad guy. Tell the cop your lawyer has given you strict orders to not answer any questions without him being present. If the cop is a real ass then provide only your name. But remember this, if you are not at liberty to leave, regardless of what false label they put on it, like "being detained", you ARE under arrest or have been kidnapped.

For more info check these out:

Talking to Police (Law Professor and Seasoned Detective)
Part1 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

Flex your Rights - Police Encounters
http://flexyourrights.org

Don't Talk to The Cops
Part One
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZePEy7OxV9s

------------------
Turn off the TV Propaganda.
Find out what's really going on!
www.Tru-News.com
"Your portal to reality!"

Instead of "Am I Free To Go?"...

I would recommend: "Why are you detaining me"? I think you are more likely to get a response with this approach as it puts the officer immediately on the defensive, perhaps leading him to reflexively deny that you are being detained. The INSTANT he does this you simply walk away while saying something like "then have a nice day officer", leaving him behind you and refusing to engage with him any further.
"Am I free to go?" is more likely to result in delaying tactics where he'll ignore the question and respond instead with more of his own questions, making you unsure about your status and whether or not you can leave.

I love it. Asking why you are

I love it. Asking why you are being detaind forces the question. A yes or no will give you a clear indication of the appropriate response from you.

------------------
Turn off the TV Propaganda.
Find out what's really going on!
www.Tru-News.com
"Your portal to reality!"

Another good source of

Another good source of information. This is a site produced by a former narcotics detective who put lots of people in jail, but later realized he was the real criminal. His videos are now FREE.

Never Get Busted
http://nevergetbusted.com/2010/videos

------------------
Turn off the TV Propaganda.
Find out what's really going on!
www.Tru-News.com
"Your portal to reality!"

Great Advise...

that is exactly the way I would handle it!!!

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI

"The belief is worthless if the fear of social and physical punishment overrides the belief."

Adding links

Carl Miller:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s-zHrNPfkQ

Secrets the Police don't want you to know:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B3no...

Networking concepts:
http://logosradionetwork.com/tao/

Common Law Advocacy:
http://nationallibertyalliance.org/

The simplicity of the common law defense is explained in the 5th and 7th Amendments to the (fraudulent) 1787 Constitution.

No one can be lawfully punished without affording the presumed to be innocent accused a common law trial by jury and the accusation must be by grand jury presentment or indictment.

That means, in actual fact, that there is no fact of a crime until 12 randomly selected jurists establish that fact in that trial for that case.

If anyone is injuring you based upon some lie, a fraud, a crime in progress, under the color of law, then that criminal, with or without a badge, is liable. The criminal can be accused by grand jury presentment, and that criminal fraud will then be offered a trial by jury in his, or her, defense. Then it is up to a common law trial by jury to decide guilt or innocence for the accuser or the accused in that case.

Those are the simple facts of common law, and all one has to do check the authority of it, in case you doubt it, is read The Bill of Rights.

These people claiming to be the police, or attorneys, or judges, or mayors, on and on, are no different, lawfully, than a security guard as WalMart. Their authority to punish someone lawfully is null. If they take an oath, then that is evidence. If they are bonded, then that is evidence. If they perpetrate a crime upon an innocent member of the whole population of people, anywhere, anytime, they are afforded the same due process as everyone is, in fact, according to the law of the land, which is expressed in an oath and bond.

If the people shopping at WalMart think they can get away with crime (punishing the innocent), or if the security guards at WalMart think they can get away with crime while they wear their badges, or their licenses to do whatever they imagine to be their authority, that crime is still a crime, under that color of law.

No more legal criminals.

Joe

More Sound Advise...

yahoo - educate the rest of the world!!!

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win!"
GANDHI

"The belief is worthless if the fear of social and physical punishment overrides the belief."

Reasons to have ID on you?

I don't boat but, need for:

renting/leasing while have boat out? business security precaution?

proof of residency for discounts?

safety/health issues if something goes wrong? to ID your (unconscious) body? (i'd put in water-proof bag)

?

Every time a cop asks me for I.d. I say

"You guys know who I am."

Don't feed the pandas. Ever.

LOL!

Love you Chris and your names.

Always happy to see you! :)

PLEASE cheer Michael for me/DP.

Can't think how to make restitution to Michael for the grief people caused him in chat last night. :(

Maybe you, cyril, emalvini, or another DPer can think of something, please?

Thanks.

This one never took off:

http://www.dailypaul.com/324658/the-daily-paul-anagrams-to-a...

Thanks for the kind words. :]

Don't feed the pandas. Ever.

egapele's picture

What in the world

or better yet, where in the world?

Was just out this past Saturday on a 3-hour boat ride on a 30 mile lake, 120 miles away from my home, none of us had ID and none would have even thought to ask or think about it. I carried nothing with me and neither did anyone else.

3 Years Ago A Student Spent Two Nights In Prison For No ID

There was a case in New York three years ago involving two college students in Riverside Park after hours. Even after her friend offered to go get it from her hotel room, the officer hauled her off to jail for 36 hours:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/nyregion/dismal-tale-of-ar...

Even the headline of the story reinforces the notion that having no ID is a "crime." In fact, she was not arrested for "the tiniest of crimes" (the trespassing was a ticketable offense, not an arrestable one). She was arrested for no crime at all.

A similar thing happened to me in Central Park, but fortunately the officer in my case just asked me to leave the park at let it go at that.

___________________________________________________________________________
"Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."-Rothbard

So that was a false arrest or more appropriately a

kidnapping by that officer which was punished right?

Last time I was ask for my ID

I was out with a friend walking (3 years ago)...as we did every morning. I happen to look down and saw a credit card. I picked it up...saw a cop driving down the road. Dumbass me, I flagged him down and explained I found the credit card on the ground.
The cop was 'nice', smiling and sitting in his car the entire time. He then ask for my ID. I told him I didn't have it on me because we where walking, not driving. Still smiling he told me to show him my ID or he was taking me to jail for stealing the card.
Up goes my temper..but I stay cool. I ask him under what law was he going to arrest me? He said any law he wanted...having a stolen credit card was a good start...street walking was another.
I then looked him dead pan in the eyes and ask if he'd ever heard of the Constitution. He said yeah..he'd heard of it, but never used it.
He ask for my name, I just gave it to him, he ran my name, told me have a nice day, and pulled out.

I believe in Hope & Change..I Hope the government will Change
Spindale-Rutherford County-North Carolina

Is it now illegal to walk?

"I ask him under what law was he going to arrest me? He said any law he wanted...having a stolen credit card was a good start...street walking was another." Is it now illegal to walk?

Andrew Napolitano for President 2016!
http://andrewnapolitano.com/index

"Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping Graven images." - ironman77

Good for You

These leos sound bored and looking for thrills.

sorry he did that to you.

glad you were able to handle it.