28 votes

Graphic Police Shooting in Riverview, MO yesterday Aug. 19 - anyone see this?

Found this while looking for *live* feeds from tonight:

"KWMU has published a video of what appears to be one of the shootings that happened yesterday. This happened in Riverview, about 15 minutes outside of the center of the protests. We believe that it is important to be transparent in what information we gather and allow for you to make the decision yourself on what you want to see or not see.

The video is graphic, and contains images of someone being shot and killed. Viewer discretion advised, you have been warned."


http://youtu.be/j-P54MZVxMU

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I grew up around police families...

My friend's dad ended up being the county sheriff, and my friend himself went on to join the Marine Corps and later become a cop before finally securing a job as a lock operator at a dam. Another friend's dad was a Highway Patrolman that ended up being a state representative. That friend ended up being a cop, and as far as I know still is. A lady that owned a bar that I used to frequent was once a cop, and she's cool as hell.

Most of my experiences with the police have been pretty pleasant. I usually don't get tickets when pulled over, and they've treated me with respect when I have encountered them. Of course, this is a different story for folks in the black community. When they get encountered by the police, it seems that both parties are expecting trouble, and one often gets the attitude out of people of what they expect.

I've said it before, and I'll likely say it again and again - Take on the attitude that you want the other fellow to take on. It's a lesson that can be applied to nearly any interaction and promotes discourse rather than division.

That doesn't necessarily work anymore.

In the past few years I have been yanked off of the road twice for nothing I had done, but because the cops were using excuses to stop people so they could look for drugs (I am white and over 60 and have never had a ticket in my life). Both cops immediately began hurling accusations at me before I had a chance to say Jack Robinson, deliberately escalating tension. The woman cop was just obnoxious but the young male cop was obviously unstable and was itching to hurt someone.

And nobody pays you to go around keeping the peace...

So YOU are totally justified to use whatever defense necessary if someone is truly attempting to do you harm.

Cops, on the other hand, are paid, and supposed to be trained, to handle all types of situations, including like this one, without having to use deadly force against every suspect who doesn't comply with their orders or even *gasp* "come at" them..

Plus, it's not like this guy just "came at" the police. They "came at" him first, with guns drawn ready to kill, before they knew he was anything but a soda and honey bun thief.
He wasn't a threat to anyone else, just waiting for the cops to oblige him.
He was a Frankenstein's Monster that the military police tactics created.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Police aren't paid to "keep the peace"

That's a big of a myth as "shooting to wound". Police are paid to execute the laws of the state, and nothing more. Your assertion that cops lose rights simply because they are employed by the state affirms the idea that our rights are granted by government. That is not only bullshit, it's dangerous bullshit.

Cops, on the other hand, are paid, and supposed to be trained, to handle all types of situations, including like this one, without having to use deadly force against every suspect who doesn't comply with their orders or even *gasp* "come at" them..

It's clear you've never taken a force on force class.
Which states pretty obviously that deadly weapons / force may be met with deadly force. And yes, it was deadly force watch the video i linked.

Even Missouri statute states this under chapter 563 defense of justification. I know, i live in Missouri, not 10 minutes from Ferguson, have a ccw, and have taken force on force training.

He had just committed armed robbery. I guess in your world he should have just been let go. Why don't we just allow all thieves who violate the rights of private property owners to go free. I mean "think of the children". Your appeal to emotion fallacies don't work when confronted with logic.

He was a Frankenstein's Monster that the military police tactics created.

More hyperbole i see. You probably don't live here, so i'll blame your ignorance on the shitty reporting that has been done. I have friend who owns a bar on Chambers. If you don't know that's about half a block from where the riots and looting have taken place. They were forced to sit armed inside the bar after boarding it up for fear for not only their business but their lives. The looting is a result of opportunity, and not police reaction.

Local news, local cops, and i personally have seen people in the crowd that have been the major cause for the molotovs, brick throwing and gun fire. Multiple out of state vehicles were seen in parking lots among the rioters. These are the same people who were at the G20 riots and in other places. They are agent provocateurs.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

Oh, I see...

So you're defending the police's role as killer-enforcers with no responsibility to the citizenry, and no responsibility to keep the peace?

They don't LOSE rights. But they do have MORE RESPONSIBILITY!
With more power comes more responsibility.
I guess you're saying they should have more rights, which they do, but not more responsibility?

They rolled up on him with their guns drawn. He did not approach them until after they confronted him. If YOU did that, YOU would be in jail on murder charges right now.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Well

I recognized that he was holding something inside his right jacket pocket long before the police made it to the scene. Not only that, but if he brandished the knife when he stole the sodas, I'm sure the store owner who called the police let them know he was armed. He was still holding something inside his jacket pocket when the police rolled up. My guess was a gun before they started shouting about the knife. I sure as he'll would have come out of the vehicle with my gun drawn too under those circumstances.

It's easy to find examples of police abusing their power, and I'm no fan; however, this one is pretty straight forward. Try not to let your distrust of the police cloud your judgement here.

Max

"A good End cannot sanctify evil Means; nor must we ever do Evil, that Good may come of it." -William Penn

If you have distance

then me having a knife is pointless to your gun. If I some how got closer than I guess you have every right to shoot me.

I take it you didn't watch

the video. It has to be a lot of distance to make a difference.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."

Click Here To See The Candidates On The Record

Absolutely numbing... : /

I can't believe what I'm seeing... I, I don't even know what to say...
:_(

Well, my two cents

If you approach me in a threatening manner with a knife in hand I will kill you; period. And unlike cops I pack hollow-point defense rounds.

Also, the guy was literally asking to be shot. He approached with a knife and did not retreat even after being told to do so by two men pointing guns at him and shouting to be shot. They shot him. Up to this point I have ZERO problems with what those police did because I would have opened fire far sooner.

Knife drawn on me
Agressive approach towards me
*BANG!*

What irritates me is that they kept shooting him in the back after he was on the ground and then lied about how he approached. Neither was needed.

Once again... Who "approached" who?

The cops pulled up, got out of their cars and drew their guns and aimed them at the suspect, before the suspect even took his hand out of his pocket.

Point is, the cops approached him first, with guns drawn. Then the man walked towards the cops, saying "shoot me". And they shot him.

Now, if YOU or I, or two citizens, pulled up in your car, got out and pulled your gun on this guy, ordered him to back up, or get down on his knees with his hands behind his head, or whatever, saying citizens' arrest, and he came at you just like he did and you and your fellow citizen fired 9 shots killing the man, YOU or I or would most likely be in jail on murder charges, or killed by the police ourselves.

Police are paid and trained to deal with dangerous situations and mentally ill people without having to resort to deadly force immediately.

I see a lot of people apologizing for the police-state because they think it's about the self-defense principle. You are not being paid and trained and armed and given special leeway by the judicial system.

PEOPLE OPPOSING TYRANNY - Real Grass Roots!
Are you a POT or a PET - Person Embracing Tyranny?

Once again a video doesn't show everything

So what happened before this? We have a story and if it is to be believed then the guy was a thief. The cops were within their rights and within the law to approach him. He was due a trial by jury on the charges of theft. However, he chose to draw a knife and approach the cops. The cops, unlike many we've seen, didn't shoot him when he pulled the knife. They didn't even shoot him on his first approach which is remarkable (sadly) for cops today. It was on the second, closer approach, that they opened fire.

Of course you could alway advocate for some form of vigilanty justice where the store owner runs out and either beats the guy with a bat or just shoots him for theft without trial. I'm sure that will suit your "all cop actions are bad" attitude.

The sad thing is that humans are not in any shape or form perfect. I've read enough to know that the lynch mobs of old did not do a damned thing to help us. The police weren't always this bad (in most cases) and can be moved back into the enforcers of law they used to be. You may think that removing the police from the equation is the most desireable move but I can come up with so many scenarios where that will fail harder than the police have. The solution is to move the cops back to being the peace keepers they used to be otherwise you either have vigilanty justice (guilty even if proven innocent) or brute private security and both would be worse than the current police system.

I didn't realize he had a

I didn't realize he had a knife in hand. But still... they could have just shot him in the knee from a distance. They didn't have to shoot to kill.

You do realize that this isn't the movies, right

Shooting a moving person, intentionally, in the knees is a trick shot on the best of days. And where do you think the missed shots will go? Into the homes behind the agressor. No; shooting him center mass is the safest bet.

Again, a guy approaches with a knife, twice, and then gets shot. No problem here so far. The guy falls face first on the ground and they keep shooting. THIS is where my problem starts. They then lie about the situation. This is another point where I have a problem.

But he was point blank range.

But he was point blank range. If knees is a trick shot...how about the thighs? Anywhere that wouldn't be a fatal shot. Why did they have to go for the kill shot? actually multiple kill shots!

One shot will likely suppress any aggressor.

This is a difficult situation...

I downloaded the video and enlarged some frames. While I couldn't see what it was (a witness said it was a knife), he had something in that right hand. He was holding it like one would hold a knife.

The police were put in a situation where a suspect was approaching them while, presumably, brandishing a deadly weapon. I don't think it was necessary to shoot the man as many times as they did, but if I had a gun in my hand and a person was approaching me in a threatening fashion holding a knife, I would shoot him - as I assume most others would likely do the same.

Hindsight is 20/20, but likely one shot in the center of mass would have been sufficient. After all, a knife is very short range weapon, and the man was walking.

I'm wondering who called the cops. Before they showed up that fellow was just a pissed off person pacing a sidewalk seemingly wishing to provoke a confrontation specifically with the police - as the man didn't seem to be aggressive towards the other passers by. Without the arrival of the police, the guy would have likely gone home once the crickets started chirping.

If the store owner called the police, there are better ways to handle petty theft of things like soda. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say most people steal from places they are familiar with - for instance, stores they frequent. One should forget about the $5 worth of merchandise lost (or some other petty amount) and forbid the person from coming to the store in the future. Hell, take a picture of them and place it on "the wall of thieves" so everyone will know - similar to the way hot-check writers are treated.

This was an unfortunate occurrence where the police probably should have never been called.

Really?!?!?

A wall of thieves? We condone shoplifting without calling the police or filing a report because we don't want to cause too much trouble? Bump that! I'll be damned if my only recourse in dealing with a thief is to attempt to shame him by putting his picture on the wall and hoping he will leave when I tell him he's not allowed in my store any more. This ain't Disneyland, fella.

Max

"A good End cannot sanctify evil Means; nor must we ever do Evil, that Good may come of it." -William Penn

What is the price of a life?

$1? $5? $10? $100? $1000? How much?

There are better ways to handle petty bullshit.

robot999's picture

These pigs

will get theirs some day. Does any rational person think that deadly force was called for?
Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord.

"Government is the entertainment division of the military-industrial complex". - Frank Zappa

+1

to counter the -1 from some statist ass-kisser

So you mean to tell me

that if a guy brandishing a knife approached you agressively you wouldn't shoot him? I would have shot him much sooner. The moment he started that agressive approach with the knife drawn I'd have put two or three slugs in him.

Don't get me wrong; I don't condone the continued firing into the guy's back while he was on the ground. That part was wrong in the worst way. However, the initial few shots were well after the point I would have shot the man were I in that situation.

One baton

and one tazer plus two men equals one subdued attacker.

I dont think you understand

I dont think you understand the physics of a knife fight.

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Finally HOME! For Good!
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I am an Oath Keeper
I am an Agnostic
I am a father and I want my children to know true freedom in their lifetime.

I more than understand

and it's not a knife fight if there is only one knife

He got exactly what he wanted

He had a weapon and went at the cops, saying shoot me shoot me.

He got exactly what he wanted - so why are you upset?

...and what brought him to this point perhaps...

I believe I heard Gerald Celente say; "when the people have nothing left to lose, they lose it!"

ZeroHedge I also heard mapped out what percentage of people in Ferguson were on welfare when Obama took office, and, how much it has increased under his 'reign'!

There's a provocation of poor blacks going on, obviously a great many are resisting giving the government what it wants...this is the time to once again reach out to their community and say if we all don't come together and throw off this tyranny as ONE nation, against all those who are orchestrating this for purely political purposes, it'll be worse than what they think slavery was.

I heard Jesse Jackson went down there begging for donations for his Rainbow Push outfit, and they boo'd him off the stage for being an obvious opportunist!

We need the independent media to stay there and WATCH intently for provacateurs, trying to start something from nothing, so those militarized cops can "put down" whomever as an object lesson to the rest of America that would dare criticize them...Keep filming and record the audio of every encounter...and the liberty-minded ones need to talk to the residents living in poverty, and on welfare, and tell them "your politicians, who say they're going to triple minimum wage; they are the ones doing this to you, and all of us!...and they have been, and are, doing it deliberately...the borders are wide open right now, and the jobs will go to them illegals first because they won't make demands on what the minimum wage should be, they're desperate!"

America is going down just like Greece in this sense...who will oppose it, who will call this government out on this charade?

Provocation...

Apples

and oranges

Not innocent - Not victims

Deny the truth all you want if that's what you have to do.

The implication being

that no matter the circumstances, authority rules.

Are you always innocent?