American Soldiers in Iraq Laying Down Their Arms?
Submitted by hawkiye on Sat, 02/02/2008 - 01:12
Just spoke to a veteran today who said he has intel that American Soldiers in Iraq are laying down their arms and refusing to fight this war. He also said they are locked down from any internet access now for political sites especially Ron Paul related sites.
Anyone heard anything similar or perhaps have loved ones over there and heard anything like this?
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hmmm..
I haven't heard of anthing like this...but I do remember watching a youtube video of this guy...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VwwMF6biCJU
Google Iraq War Resisters
http://www.ivaw.org/
Something is going on because of those cut cables.
And since all Internet traffic for Iran and others is being filtered through the UK and the US, the only news these countries want released will get out.
Sort of reminds one of the Iron Curtain, doesn't it?
Don't Be Gullible
This is another example of how rumors start. I don't know who it is that starts these rumors, but we all need to be a bit more skeptical.
Last night someone reported that Iran had no Internet service because someone had cut three underwater cables. They went on to say that the media were "concealing" this by not reporting it.
I don't believe that Iran, or any other country could be removed from Internet access. I don't think any country today is dependent on underwater cables.
I went on Al Jazeera. They made no mention of it. We need to stick to the facts. Our military is not deserting, regardless of the fact that our foreign policy is in need of a major overhaul. Military personnel are certainly following the election. Hopefully, they will do what needs to be done to elect people who will follow the Constitution. That means Ron Paul, and others like him.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/h...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7222536.stm
This was the report from the BBC on the cutting of the underwater cables.
http://militantjeffersonian.com
"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes
Most foolish war in 2017 years?
Hate to say it, but that's exactly what they should do:
After what has been described as the most foolish war in over 2,000 years, is there a way out of Iraq for President Bush, asks Brian Whitaker
Tuesday November 29, 2005
Guardian Unlimited
There is a remarkable article in the latest issue of the American Jewish weekly, Forward. It calls for President Bush to be impeached and put on trial "for misleading the American people, and launching the most foolish war since Emperor Augustus in 9 BC sent his legions into Germany and lost them".
To describe Iraq as the most foolish war of the last 2,017 years is a sweeping statement, but the writer is well qualified to know.
He is Martin van Creveld, a professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem and one of the world's foremost military historians. Several of his books have influenced modern military theory and he is the only non-American author on the US Army's list of required reading for officers.
Professor van Creveld has previously drawn parallels between Iraq and Vietnam, and pointed out that almost all countries that have tried to fight similar wars during the last 60 years or so have ended up losing. Why President Bush "nevertheless decided to go to war escapes me and will no doubt preoccupy historians to come," he told one interviewer...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1653454,00.html
detention camps
are ready and waiting for this... If they are going to do this, on foreign soil surely isn't the place to do it. That's common sense. As this "war" drags on, I believe people will begin to see it for what it is , OCCUPATION.
We, as a group already see it as occupation and realize all the propaganda that got us here. Now with the new "draft" imposed by Rangle, your brothers and sisters 18-42 will serve. yea, I'd say there will be some laying down of arms. And they're already prepared to deal with it. How do you spread democracy to the unwilling? You kill them all.
Sorry for ranting.
It Is Hogwash
I'm a First Sergeant in the Army and I can tell you that this is NOT true. WE have access to every candidates websites. However, there are certain sites we cannot access because of their format. Blogs are a perfect example of this. Also, Pauls YouTube page because we can see ANY YouTube page. NO one is laying down their arms and refusing missions and no one is suppressing our right to vote. Sorry.
CJ
A Soldier's Perspective
www.soldiersperspective.us
Amen...
support the troops by bringing them home to portect and support America's borders. We are spending more than $270,000,000 (two hundred seventy million dollars) per day in Iraq alone. Now, we have troops stationed all over the world on top of that figure. Where do you think this money comes from. Our taxes pay the interest on the loans the govt. takes out to finance their wars. What could we do with that kind of money here at home?
Daniel
Sounds like hogwash to me.
What you're talking about is a mutiny, and if that were happening, the New York Times would be shouting it from the rooftops.
-jcr
"The problem with trying to child-proof the world, is that it makes people neglect the far more important task of world-proofing the child." -- Hugh Daniel
Support the Troops
Bring them home!!!
The People's President
Ron Paul R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution 2012
Oh wow....
I just realized how many troops we have over seas. 572,000!!!! This is amazing! I didn't even think it was over 50,000. I learn something new everyday. I wonder how many people don't know this and how many people would change their views on foreign policy if they knew this.
it could be connected to bushes weak knees,4cables 4 internet
google iran war set to start but bush getting weak knees.It says the generals are leaking info for us to see and bush has made a 24 hour trigger for the pentagon to strike look it up the generals are going to try a coup this is no bullshit people it looks official not gimmick please look it up and tell me I am crazy!!!I think it is a real artical?
You are looking at articles
You are looking at articles from February of 07. Though there do seem to be several credible articles quoting high ranking pentagon officials publicly stating they will resign should we attack Iran. Let's hope their resolve is still strong.
this is against Ron Paul's beliefe
thats what Anti-Ron Paul media want you to say.
somebody please delete this non-sense posting.
Irresponsible Topic Posting
You, Hawkiye, "Just spoke to a veteran today who said ~..." Is this veteran someone you would consider reliable?
I just did the Google search you should have done, http://www.google.com/search?as_q=soldier+iraq+arms&hl=en&nu...
And out of 100 responses there is not a hint of anything like what you posted. You sir, seem to be an irresponsible poster and after reading all of your responses to others you also seem to be a sorry condesending SOB as well. I would recommend that you verify a rumor with a second source before entering a post because EVERY post headline is listed on Google and Google does not report it as a rumor. You sir are misleading casual readers with little or no verification of your speculations. If this were my website - you would be history.
4PresPaul in Texas or usAmerica
Another one who can't
Another one who can't read... Sigh! Do you know what a question mark is? If not look it up. And take responsibility for what "YOU CHOOSE" to read instead of expecting people to only post things you agree with... Oh and take your unwarranted criticisms and shove it.
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If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. Samuel Adams
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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!
Get Prepared!
I have a comment to the
I have a comment to the fellow Iraq veteran. Some people have differing opinions on why they signed up or what they signed up to do. If a buddy laid down arms while we were fired upon, I'd dump him in the Tigris. If he did it some other time, I wouldn't consider his actions shameful, just a personal decision.
I don't know your MOS, but in my unit, things were so extremely close to slavery that my unit had the lowest retention rate in the entire Army and the highest suicidal/depression totals at mental health in all of Fort Bragg. I don't think most sign up for the kinds of Hell that you can become involved in.
Undersea cables cut
Internet provider in Emirates confirms undersea cable cut in Persian Gulf between Dubai, Oman, cause unknown: Associate Press
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/02/01/africa/ME-GEN-Mide...
Internet Failure Hits Two Continents: CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/01/31/dubai.outage/index...
Third Undersea Cable Cut Between Sri Lanka, Suez: MarketWatch
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/third-undersea-cable-r...
There might be a hint of truth to this
there was an article I read about a month or so ago, not more than that, about an issue in a certain platoon that they experienced heavy and unusual casualties as a percentage of their unit and that they were all having emotional/psychological problems with the mission in context of those losses. It was coming to the understanding of those in the decision chain, that this was an issue that needed to be addressed due to the fact that the platoon didn't think they could go out on patrol and be effective under the circumstances.
They were in a strict sense in a state of mutiny, but it was being handled very carefully due to the heavy casualty toll in that unit. It was initially, at the time of the report, being considered to split the unit up to minimize negative emotional feedback to allow them to continue their deployment.
So there might be some grain of truth, but I don't think it's quite as sensational as the original poster would have you believe concerning the reason or motivation.
Well I liked your post
Well I liked your post right up until I read the last paragraph where you completely falsely characterize the original post. There was no sensationalism and a question mark at the end. Do you not know what a question mark means? What was sensationalized? Oh crap you'll probably falsely characterize this post because of all those squiggly lines with the dot at the bottom on the ends of several lines... ;-)
--------------------------------------------------------
If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. Samuel Adams
-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!
Get Prepared!
Active Duty Military Here
Listen folks, have not heard a word about this and the military soldiers are not so closed off to the rest of the world as you seem to think. I have friends over there and have been in contact with them as of a few days ago, so this theory that there is no access to internet is false. Also the military does not have to provide internet access to the troops. That is why they provide free snail mail, the internet is a luxury... I have been and still am opposed to this war but I do not believe or condone dissent in the military because when one man does not do his job the others are all in jeapardy.
Commanders from G Washington on down would agree with you...
But as a student of history, I can tell you quite factually that the soldiers in the 1776 Revolutionary War would vehemently disagree.
And one of the most successful military units in that war was Ethan Allen's entirely voluntary Green Mountain Boys -- they had a leader, yes, but were bound by sense of purpose and principle and earned loyalty... not a code that disallowed dissent.
And many, possibly most soldiers -- from both sides -- of the Civil War would also disagree.
And many from WWI and WWII as well.
The elimination of "dissent" can be impressed, even suppressed or oppressed, but if dissent is completely bottled up -- then it will come out in other even more dangerous forms (hence FTA and "fragging" in Vietnam).
Since soldiers, sailors and marines all take oaths to protect and defend the Constitution -- does that not include the Bill of Rights? And does that not mean that they have not only a right, but in fact a DUTY to disobey any and every order that is unlawful or unconstitutional (the Constitution being the HIGHEST law of the land)? In fact, is it not part of the Military manuals and codes that they are SUPPOSED to disobey unlawful orders.
Yet, how in the world are they to discern IF or when to disobey -- if they completely disconnect the judgment portion of the brain and blindly obey?
Granted it is very problematic, but to my mind and experience, mainly to those in command who have not EARNED the loyalty of their soldiers, but instead COMMAND and DEMAND.
The asinine "100% obedience" doctrine is actually NOT an American concept, but comes from the standing Armies and feudal nations of Europe. Dissent and disagreement -- while always hated by the officers corps -- was once part and parcel of American military, especially the militia (now purportedly known as the "National Guard") -- one of the reasons the "Continental Officers" so disliked and distrusted them.
And if dissent were practiced sooner... would there have been a Vietnam? Or a Korea? Or many of the other illegal wars and military actions? Those who think (including General Smedley Butler) often seriously wonder.
Interesting however, the
Interesting however, the field of battle is not the place to break ranks. I would disobey an order if abolutely necessary but just because you dont agree with an order does not make it unconstitutional. We are not required to follow blidly as you seem to think but in a combat situation I would feel no sorry for the man that did not stand up and finish the job. We are not talking about shooting people on main street USA here. We are talking about unit out in the middle of nowhere Iraq where the men in each unit must count on one another. Their trust must not be broken.
It is up to the good citizens of our great country to right the wrongs of the government through the processes established in the constitution we defend. The people are asleep at the wheel though and must be awakened.
To all of that I would agree... wholeheartedly...
With the exception that not all of us have been "asleep at the wheel" -- many, like Dr. Paul, have been fighting a long hard battle for many years.
BTW -- here is a link to a good document on what the military itself formally feels is the need for appropriate "dissent" even in military matters:
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/au-24/oconnell.pdf
I did not mean everyone,
I did not mean everyone, sorry. I have been an active voter since I have been of age to. This was important to my father since the Florida education system sucked.
slavery was abolished
"I have been and still am opposed to this war but I do not believe or condone dissent in the military because when one man does not do his job the others are all in jeapardy."
slavery was abolished and, thus, I think soldiers should be given a way to stand down if they no longer see peace and justice in their actions; the warhawks have to anticipate this and, thus, only send troops to war when necessary.
way too many folks, including myself, believe that Al Queda is a made up organization.
Thanks for considering my service as equivalent to slavery.
Boy I cant what to go to work tomoroow and pick that cotton, massa!
What an irrational response that was but I must thank you as my roommate and I got quite a laugh! By the way in case you are unsure, I am a VOLUNTEER and will be serving my country until I am eligble to retire...
Don't know how I missed the humor there...
But (especially after your other posts) I definitely see it now...
And I can fully see that you weren't doing the "throw the 'serve my country' line down as a gauntlet" to shut him up.
So my apologies -- looks like you already have "disabused" yourself of the recruit mentality. (I've just heard the line too often from too many -- especially since Gulf I and even more since Gulf II -- that I guess I've become over sensitive to it and am seeing it where it doesn't exist now. Your patience and respectful dialog humble me!)
All the best.
BTW, Son... you need to be disabused of something.
And that is this concept that your "service" which you state is "voluntary" somehow places some type of mandatory requirement of subservient "respect" from everyone in the United States... whose life and liberty you have been told you are "preserving" by "serving your country."
Quite frankly. You've been sold a bill of goods; its a load of patriotic-sounding hogwash.
Majority of the actions of the standing Army and Navy accomplish very little or nothing to actually "serve" anyone in this country.
And frankly, if and when you do any real self-examination I believe you will admit that your ACTUAL motivations for choosing a military job (aka "volunteering to serve your country" in the lingo) were not so pure and self-less as that phrase seems to imply. Indeed, at their root, majority of the motivations are normally quite the opposite, and are not self-less, but completely self-ish -- seeking of independance from parents, a desire to experience risks, dangers, adventure, glory, respect, to get a career and sinecure, or a path to college and profession, etc. -- NONE of those things are self-less; and none of them do a damn thing to "serve the country" or for the citizens of the country when we are not actually under attack. Indeed, since the military is often (as currently) used by the Executive branch in defiance of the Constitution, and in defiance of the will of the people, then to a certain extent, your continued "obedient service" is actually harmful to the country and the interest of its citizens.
Its a tough thing to learn and one has to swallow VERY hard to do it -- most find it impossible to do, ever -- and virtually everyone finds it impossible while they are still in the military (indeed if they do, it becomes difficult for them to stay).
So I do NOT expect you to understand right now. Indeed, I would be shocked if you did.
But, someday you will finally see that and understand.
Until then, please cease to push your so-called "patriotic" opinions of such upon everyone else. To someone like myself -- while I understand that you have such delusions while you are yet in the military -- I also think that for you to try to force others (free citizens) to delude themselves and do some type of obesience to you -- well, it is the equivalent of seeing a child mouth-back and expect an adult many years their senior to kowtow to their demands, in short, it is unseemly, and in the end a VERY dangerous line to cross.
What is WRONG with you?!!!
Who died and made you omniscient so that you could look into the hearts of other men and tell them what is there?
How incredibly arrogant to assume you know another man's motivations!
-0-
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