A Big Reason Why Dobson won't endorse Ron:
Christians conservatives like Dr. Dobson (Focus on the Family) and Tony Perkins (Family Research Council) won't support Ron is that they think a lot of legal decisions SHOULD be made at the Fed. level...... so, the Constitution was wrong? Our founding fathers didn't really think this one through?
Here's a letter I just sent to Tony Perkins:
Dear Mr. Perkins, I've recently "converted" from beleiving that the Fed. Gov't should legislate things such as "gay marriage" and so forth, to beleiving the State should decide for this reason: If only a small % of Christians are active in politics and their activism results in, e.g. a ban on same sex unions, then, the rest of us will continue growing fat and lazy because, "Someone else will take care of that". If states decide--like the Constitution says-- then, Christians would have to get up and take action. We Christians would have only ourselves to blame for allowing immoral laws to pass. Let's give Ron Paul another look and decide if the Constitution was a poorly written document and Big Gov't is responsible for everything or, Ron is Right.
I'm not here to debate same sex unions---I only hope that Ron explains himself to Christians conservatives a little better with some reasoning like mine above. I feel that millions of Christian voters could be swayed if only Ron's points could be explained a little better so, I'll do my part in doing that.
They Were Brainwashed by Rove!
The neocon political guru, Karl Rove, went to the evangelical leaders and lobbyed them to back Bush. Bush will push for a marriage amendment, and put in judges in to overturn Roe v Wade, since the GOP would have control of Exec. Branch and Congress. The illusion of the marriage amendment process, and the fact Chief Justice Renquist's age and health, the age of several liberal justices, they got caught in the vacuum. Then the 9/11 events of Muslim terrorists declaring jihad againt the Infedels, the eventual judge appointments, sucked them in again. Now, they have lost their way, they are richer, and convinced the Fed Gvt. is a easier and faster way to promote their values. They have been decieved! They are sold on Islam spreading and Isreal being destroyed.I know this, because I used to follow it. Then, I started hearing sound bytes on the radio of Dr. Paul, which is a neighboring district, and started to wake up. I also, read a few of Pat Buchanon's books, and listened to Coast to Coast with George Noory( he has a lot of informative guests, not all about UFO's). I used to be a Tancredo guy, because illegal aliens are everywhere in Houston, lowering the pay levels and robbing our social systems. But, when I heard Dr. Paul was running, I soon switched over, because his message is more complete.
good call
Yeah, christians got brainwashed, hook line and sinker, by the GOP. This is what happens when a religion get sucked into a political party. Soon, it become less about the GOD, and more about the GOP.
I think I'm going to start printing up pamplets to pass out at churches that say "Attention Chrisitans! The Republican party actually uses and despises you!"
The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt
Time for believers to Email Dobson
Maybe it's time for us all to write Dr. Dobson, (and others) and let him know HOW DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED we are in him for rejecting the Constitution of the United States. How Ron Paul is fighting for his (Dr. Dobson and others) prayers to be answered, regarding having only STRICK Constitutional Judges appointed to the bench. God has given Dr. Dobson the Candidate they've been praying years for, and he's too BLIND to see it!
Its time to let these Guys know that its time for them to get their heads out of their assholes (of course in a nicer way than I just expressed here), and support our Constitution.
God said in proverbs,"a man who does not obey mans law, god will not hear his prayers". The Constitution is the LAW OF THE LAND, now start obeying it Dr. Dobson.
Actually....problem is...too
Church 'leaders' have for some time now, taught the sheeple "dominionism." --a type of theocratic government to thinking, in error, that they can set up God's kingdom on earth.
At the same time, 'lay christians' have abandoned their citizenry duties AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.
The priesthood belongs to all believers---not just the so-called 'leaders'--and now both look to big goverment to do THEIR JOBS...as all shirk responsibility to oversee local communities...i.e: skip the football game, and get on down to the city council meeting.
not sure this is dominion theology
Who specifically are you referring to? I've been to MANY reformed churches that teach "dominion theology" over the years and they all 100% support Ron Paul, or (before Ron Paul) the most "Ron Paul" like candidate, usually a scrict constitutionalist 3rd party.
There's nothing wrong with setting up God's kingdom. I think the differences lie in HOW we go about it (bombs and guns or not), and WHAT that kingdom actually looks like (big coercive federal government or not). I mean, EVERYONE wants to set up some kind of ideal "kingdom"- atheist or christian, But the people I've read, all have in mind a Ron Paul like vision where the federal government has very limited control over anything, and state and local governments handle most everything.
Maybe we're talking about two different things with similar terminology? What Christian writers are you referencing?
The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt
history
Historically the church has kept the people un/under-educated to keep the establishment in power. I hate to burst any bubbles around here, but I wouldnt expect church leaders from the religious right to jump on our bandwagon any time soon, im fairly confident they are content with the status-quo.
wow, that's grossly incorrect
Actually, it was only during a very brief time period in the late middle ages that the Church leaders, drunk with their own power, kept the masses ill-informed. And you fail to point out it was people in the same church that rose up, fought the corruption, and overturned the abuse. And the weapon they used was the greatest communication deviced ever devised- the printing press. No printing press, no revolution. But there it was, right whenit was needed the most, and it changed everything. Of course, today, we have the new, greatest communication devices ever invented- the internet. Chrisitans will wake up and throw off the garbage, they always do eventually. Of course, I wish they'd start with Huckabee, but.... revolutions take time. Even our own here in America took decades. NEVER GIVE UP!
The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt
recent history
What about the recent church leaders who have protected pedophiles?
Those leaders would move them between states from church to university to another country so that the criminals could avoid prosecution.
It sickens me to think of the amount of wealth that their flock has invested into the church that gets wasted on such legal cases.
I would rather see the church using that treasure to take care of the needy.
I've woken up through my education and abandoned the catholic religion.
Yet just the same; I can respect the views of those who chose religion if they can also respect my right to choose to forgo the church and be my own guide.
sure, and we could do this all day
Sure, there's been gross, unspeakable acts withing the Catholic church lately with seeking to protect the church itself and not protect the innocent (which is what the church SHOULD be doing). Oh yeah, I have no shortage of disgust and contempt for these people. But here's the good news. God hates it most of all since it is done by "his" people. And He will destroy these people and turn them out, as He always has.
I have nothing but understanding for people who want to abondon the church. But, I feel the same way about the church as I do about America. Don't walk away. Roll up your sleeves, and clean out the filth! Just like Ron Paul says about our government- let's wipe away all the madness and get back to the constitution! We don't fix America by running away from George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. NO, we actually get closer to them than all the losers running for office against our man Ron Paul. In the same way, I'm not leaving the church. I'm staying to wipe out the filth, and in doing so I know that I'm drawing closer to God then all the phonies who love to talk about God, but run are actually running a ship no more seaworthy than our own government (which has also strayed unrecognizably from its supposed founding principles).
Don't put your faith in the church- it's just a collection of people. And from time to time, it needs to the washed out just like all governments do. But God is true- always.
thanks for listening to the rant. Ron Paul 2008!
The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt
actually the problem is...
christians are just frustrated about losing the culture war. So, they've decided if they can't win preaching their values on the ground, they'll just just the governement to "win" it for them. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. No complicated love of power and money involved- at least from your average, man-on-the-street evangelical. Just like most conservatives didn't believe in pre-emptive war until 9/11. Then, whoops, everything they said they "believed" went out the window in a panic of "we must win at all costs, and to hell with principles." Most people in America just don't want to be Christian anymore. Plain and simple. And now some Christians are trying to harness the force of the federal government to artificially "prop up" Chrsitian culture, because they wish it weren't so. But that's just the way it is right now, and Christians are gonna have to deal with it in a Chrisitan way- not in a "I'll get the feds to force it" way, which is anti-thetical to Christianity. I'm a Christian, and that's the way I feel about it. And I guess these men (Dobson, etc.) didn't really have as much faith in God as they said they did, since they seemed to have now put all their faith in guns and coercion. It's the same with the middle east policy. Christians used to want to send missionaries and trade and be friends. But they've lost patience with God's way, and now they just want to bomb. Christians have been exorted from scripture that we do NOT use the weapons of this world. But Christians have lost faith that God will work all things out for those who are righteous. Instead, Christians think they can force God's will with the barrel of a gun.
Christians aren't the problem. The problem is that the Christians need to get a big bucket of cold water called the Jesus Christ thrown in their face. Then they'll wake up, and realize the power of the Holy Spirit is sufficent for this world. No need for federal force. That's the way Rome worked- not Christianity.
The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt
It's about money and control.
The "moral leaders" and those TV preachers aren't in it to help people.....If that were the case they would be out in the streets helping those that really need it. They're in it for the money and the control. They would never support a candidate whose followers actually think for themselves.
You should just send them money and believe what they tell you.
Not anti-religious, they all just remind me of Tammye Faye Bakker of the 80's.
Actually there ARE people in the streets helping those that
really need it. Good, solid REAL examples of Christen Men and Women.
But since they are NOT concerned with fame and fortune... we simply do not hear about them.
Basically the rule of thumb is: They either TALK about it, or they DO it, but not both.
I use the terms "preacher" and "practicer" -- we have far too many of the former, and not near enough of the latter.
They seem
In step with neocons to me. As I have said so many times, this education from Dr. Paul has been monumental for me. It has really shown me where to draw the line with so many people and so many institutions. I have a whole new, clearer way of looking at things now. Things make so much more sense that were confusing before.
Obeying the law of the land is supposed
to be the Christian position. I guess if the Constitution isn't legal it's a free for all, but even then the Christians aren't supposed to be power hungry.
Defend Liberty!
good post! This is also
good post! This is also closer to the way bible narrows down to local gov't, 10 elders, etc.
Trust in God, but tie your camel tight.
"Socialism needs two legs on which to stand; a right and a left. While appearing to be in complete opposition to one another,they both march in the same direction." - Paul Proctor
Did GOD ask Him?
Dr. Dobson made a statement a while back, where he promised God he would never give into the abortion issue as long as he lived. He wants his law, he wants his law. Sometimes I wonder if Dr. Dobson has ever asked GOD what he wanted.
Reminds me of Israel... they wanted a king, they wanted a King, WANTED A KING to rule them. And finally God gave them the King they wanted, and the rest is History. God predicted the resulting consequences for Israel, which would be unjust laws, taxes, and wars. Our Constitution was created to keep all this from happening to us. And yet we have these great theologians who insist on a law at the expense of loosing our Constitution. To me these men are bordering foolish!
Jesus said he did not come to Judge mankind, but to give man hope. God said we (Christians) were not to Judge the world (non-Christians) for He has already judged them.
Sometimes I think the Dr. Dobson's and Pat Robertson's have lost sight of what God called them to do in the first place, that God is a God of love and Mercy, and leave the Judging and Judgment to HIM.
Actually...
...Jesus said he came, not to bring peace, but a sword, to pit brother against brother. That, and, the question of abortion, though many libertarians seem to think it's about "controlling women's bodies", is about whether the unborn are human or not. Among other things. You "purists" are still for laws against MURDER, right? So the question then becomes one of defining murder, and of one's responsibility to those whose dire circumstances were caused by one's actions. After all, liberty and personal responsibility go hand in hand.
As for the other, truly undisputably victimless crimes Dobson and his ilk want forbidden by the force of law, I agree. Tyranny.
As a Evangelical Dobson is a hack
Abortion will never be solved at the Fed level. 20 of the last 28 years we have had a Republican President. Abortion is still legal.
Abortion is like a gun. It is held to people head in order to inspire votes... They want to keep it at the federal level because then they can control you.
If it was a state issue Dobson would lose half of his control...
The founders intended for
The founders intended for the States to compete for the same reason that we want businesses competing for our dollars - increased quality and decreased prices.
Imagine, if the States decided upon all or most issues - then what we would eventually see is a migration of the population towards the States that have the highest support for their own individual personal views.
States that are corrupt and help no people would completely lose support of the populace. They would have no choice but to improve their ways, otherwise they would lose the financial support of their citizens when they leave for other states.
That last part is currently happening in New Jersey and has been happening for the past few years. People are fleeing this sinking ship. So, rumors have been circulating about some sort of NJ Exit Tax for when people sell their homes in NJ and move out of state. It seems that NJ is actually trying to penalize those who are leaving. Here's a reference thread: http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=16010
...
Yes
God is still in control...
That is sound reasoning that Christians--and all Americans-- need to think about.
God is still in control...
they are like dictators,
they are like dictators, want to force their believes on others.
I wonder what kind of relationships they have with their kids.
Absolutely right. Maybe they
Absolutely right. Maybe they will wake up if we all send them these words. I sent the Buchanan's American Conservative endorsement.
Mathew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
true
And God has given us all free choice...we will suffer the consequences later...I do not even think it is the governments place to over step those bounds by Legislating Morality.
"and the truth shall make you free"
John 8:32