Texas is ready to talk politics...maybe even listen for a change
If you have any positive feedback for Texans stumping for Dr. Paul, now is the time to make an impact. Dr. Paul is rallying in his home district lately. His message and delivery are being refined at each public event I have viewed. He definitely hasn't faded into the night. I think his enthusiasm has been bolstered by the die-hards in the revolution.
I am requesting that you help your fellow revolutionaries in Texas to make an impact by sharing your canvassing expertise. We do have a delegate or two at stake here, you know ;-)
Advice I am seeking:
1) The biggest hurdle I encounter in voter conversion is the mentality "If we don't attack them over there, they will certainly attack us over here". They typically look at 9/11 as the de-facto proof of this. (I know, I know, but we are dealing with years of MSM spin) I have been able to get my Democrat neighbor to admit that our interventionism is the root of the terror problem for us. He's ripe for conversion. Have you found a good, logical argument (besides economics) to start these people thinking for themselves on this topic?
2) The prevailing mentality amongst fence-sitters here is "I like his stances, but he doesn't stand a chance of winning." What is the best way you have found to make the "this is not a beauty contest" argument?
I returned home from a meet-up meeting last night to find that I missed a robo-call from Dr. Paul inviting me and my family and friends to a rally in Lake Jackson, Texas on Sunday. That was a kick in the pants after a productive meet-up. So, if anything else, throw your Texan friends a bone and give us some words of encouragement. This thing ain't over yet!
Pflugerville Meetup Group needs help Phone banking!
Please is anyone can help we need to ID voters ASAP!
http://ronpaul.meetup.com/1051
or the actual event is here:
http://ronpaul.meetup.com/1051/calendar/7266327/
if Only
If only Romney were to drop out....
Excellent talking points, all.
Thanks for all the contributions here.
The meaning behind my screen name
The battle of Gonzales, TX. (Oct. 1835)
For Those Who Worry About Wasted Vote, Ask:
Assuming they like him, ask them:
Which works better?
Voting for Ron Paul and candidates promoting his platform (low taxes, peace, whatever they like) every election cycle, year after year until the other voters see the light and join you, or
Voting for the lesser evil, a second choice, who isn't what you want, but stands a chance to win or beat a worse candidate, election cycle after cycle, until enough voters see the light and vote for a Ron Paul type candidate, and THEN change your vote and vote for him or his platform.
IMissLiberty
IMissLiberty
RP in TX
Here's a link I found for Texans.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071217042520AA...
Another
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/32543
And another
http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=48297
Answer to "Fight them there"
First point: The official 911 commission itself explains that bin Laden attacked us because we Americans landed in Saudi Arabia with our filthy infidel boots to fight for Kuwait during the first Gulf War. Watch CNN's "Road to 911" which explains this thoroughly.
Another point: As explained by Ron Paul himself is the example of Lebanon. If you remember in the 80's we constantly heard of the bombimgs and violence in Beirut. As soon as the westerners left that place the suicide bombimngs STOPPED and there was unimaginable peace and economic growth in that country. It was a mediterrenean paradise.
So if you want peace in the middle east, don't meddle in their sovereignty. We think we can dominate any country because we have the most "modern" army in the world. But look at how we lost shamefully in Vietnam.
History should be our guide, not convoluted neocon logic.
RP in TX
Ron Paul has some great support in TX! Kinky Friedman, the Willie incident on BO yesterday, it's his home state, many many folks down there are in the know on the NAFTA hwy! I'm sure there are more people that could add to my list...
Support the man that the TROOPS support
I just have to post this once more.
This is very simple....if you really support the troops then support the man that they have ALL donated to. The troops have donated more to Ron Paul than ALL the candidates combined.
Why?? B/c they want to come home....they are tired of being deployed for 2 years at a time away from their families. These men & women deserve our support ....they are speaking loudly by their money....is anyone LISTENING???
Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/blog
how I handle it...
1) Logic dictates that "Terrorism" is an ideology that has no home, no uniforms, and no leader. It cannot be defeated with bullets or bombs, it must be defeated by removing it's incentives (such as our interventionalist foreign policies, radical extremism, aid to military dictators, undermining other nations' sovereignity, economic sanctions against entire nations, etc.) We simply cannot fight terrorism as we have fought wars of the past - that is, we can no longer submit to the idea that "the best defense is a good offense", because in our 'offense' we fail to remove terrorism's incentives - instead we make the incentives even more defined. It would be one thing for radical Islamic extremists to *tell* young recruits that the Western world has a desire to impose their will on Islamic nations, but it's another thing for Islamic extremists to point to our presence there and *show* them that reality.
2) This is not a game in which you try to pick the projected winner for bragging rights when all is said and done. This is a very, very important process of selection that has very, very real results, and to choose anything other than the candidate you want to see as president of the United States is not only a disservice to yourself (for voting contrary to what you want), it is a disservice to your fellow Americans (for misusing your right to vote). The only person that is 'unelectable' or 'doesn't have a chance' is the candidate you agree with but choose not to vote for. PERIOD.
Hope that helps ;-).
Regarding item 1: Just take
Regarding item 1:
Just take a look at CNN's page on the latest Osama bin Laden video here:
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/...
In the new bin Laden tape, he EXPLICITLY says that the goal of Al Qaeda is to bankrupt the USA. Ron Paul speaks often about the failing dollar and how our War in Iraq is a contributing factor to that because we have to borrow so much money from China to finance that war. Not to mention that there were no Al Qaeda in Iraq before WE went there.
You can read my blog post about it if you'd like here:
http://ronpaul-2008.blogspot.com/2008/02/bankrupting-us-ron-...
Just don't feel like typing out the whole thing again or copy/paste because it would make this too long.
Re #2:
You should explain to the fence-sitters that even if he "doesn't stand a chance" at winning that the election of a President isn't a National popularity contest, it is their duty as an American Citizen and voting for the person you believe is best for the job, right or wrong, is far more important than voting for whomever happens to be leading.
Quite honestly if I supported a candidate other than Ron Paul, it would be because I agreed more with their stances on issues and with their record in Congress or as Governor (or some other criteria if they had no political experience), NOT because they were the front-runner or a media darling or because that is who I think will win regardless of whether or not I agree with them.
Ron Paul's record speaks for itself. Even if you do't agree with him on everything (and this poster does not), I 110% respect and admire his ability to put his personal beliefs beside and to look at legislation from the perspective of "Is it Constitutional?" and then vote accordingly.
That is more important than anything else. "Does Candidate X have a record of following the Constitution of the USA or does the candidate say and do whatever he/she can to get re-elected?"
Just my $.02
My Answer to the Foreign Policy Objections
First of all, let me say, that I understand where you are coming from. Ron Paul's foreign policy was the hardest think for me to support, but as I listened to him talk it began to make more and more sense to me. One of the things that helped me the most was the following metaphor: He said, when someone commits murder, the murderer is to blame; we don't blame the victim, at all. However, we are always interested in the motive of the murderer, so that we might possibly understand how to keep ourselves from similar tragedies. Likewise, the suicide bombers are to blame for the murders they commit, but we should still try and understand their motives. Osama bin Laden gave, as one of the 3 reasons that he launched the 9-11 attacks, that we have bases on their holy land in Saudi Arabia and that we have been bombing Iraq for more than 10 years. This doesn't mean that we are to blame for the attacks, but by continuing the war in Iraq and our presence in Muslim countries, we are actually making ourselves LESS safe, since we are continuing to give them the motive to attack us.
Of course, that wouldn't matter, if the war was doing other things to promote our security, but I have become convinced that this is not so. For another 9-11 attack (planes, dirty bombs, etc.) to occur, the terrorists need to get inside the U.S., and right now, our borders are very loosely defended because we have sent our best border guards over to Iraq to police Iraqi borders. If we were to bring our troops homes from around the world and use them to secure our own borders, we would be much safer. Attacks that would not require the attacker to get inside the country (rockets mainly) can only really be done by a country, not a terror cell, since they need to be big and we wouldn't miss them with our satellites. I don't believe that any country is going to try and attack us, nuclear or otherwise, since they know that we have the most nuclear weapons in the world and would quickly wipe them out (in the same way that we never were attacked by the Soviets because it would be too costly for them to do so).
Then, one might ask, what happens to Iraq if we leave, wont it be chaos? Ron Paul has pointed out that the people who claim that to leave Iraq will cause chaos, are the same people who said that winning the war would be a cake walk. So why should we listen to them? He admits that it may be difficult for awhile, but he points to the example of Vietnam. Vietnam was a similarly undeclared war, where we clearly had superior military power, yet, we couldn't get complete control of the country. Eventually we left, and it was a little rocky for awhile, but now we talk and trade with Vietnam. And, most importantly, that domino effect of Communism that folks predicted would follow our withdrawal from Vietnam did not happen. Similarly, I don't think that leaving Iraq will bring chaos to the whole region. It may be difficult for awhile, but with peace and diplomacy, and some Christian missionaries over there, we may be able to change their minds, so that they no longer hate us. We will never change their minds by force, though.
Also, Ron Paul has said that he wont bring the troops home from Iraq in just one day. He will talk with the generals to make sure it is done safely, but he will be clear that they will come home as soon as they safely can. The soonest any other candidates can offer for getting the troops home from Iraq is 2013.
The most important for me, in deciding, finally, that I liked Ron Paul's foreign policy, is the idea of blowback. The movie here is an excellent explanation of blowback ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWdQutcctwo). We do more than just fight in Iraq. We also give money to Saudi Arabia, Israel, the Palestinians, Musharref in Pakistan, and to many other countries throughout the world. Often, this money is for weapons (we are funding both sides of local conflicts between Israel and Palestine). Usually we put sanctions on countries that don't, yet, have weapons of mass destruction, like Iran and Cuba, but then countries that do have such weapons, like Pakistan, we send money to them. This actually encourages countries to get a nuclear weapon, since then, instead of refusing to buy their goods, we will send them money to keep them friendly to us so they wont use it against us. This makes us much less secure, than if we were to give no money at all.
However, even when it is for good things, like food for starving people, the money usually ends up in the hands of dictators, instead of the people it was supposed to help. Thus, even when we have good intentions, we incite hatred from those oppressed by the dictators we directly or indirectly fund. It would be much better, cause less anger against us, and thus be safer for us, to not fund any countries through our government. Ron Paul would stop our overseas aid to all countries. Then, he would abolish the income tax, so that money would be given back to us. Then, we could use private charities (like World Vision) to help those that are really in need. And these private charities would do a much better job (just like they did a better job after Katrina than FEMA did) of getting the money to those who are hurting rather than into the pockets of corrupt politicians.
It should not be a factor ....
when Dr. Paul takes office in January 2009, the Iraq government should be able to take over and we can start bringing troops home. If the government is not ready by then, they never will be and the American people will see this and start getting bitter with our government like you never have seen before. IMO
TheKingIsComing
musing about why they dont like us?
I wrote this to answer this question for myself.
1. We support those who have the power to make us money in the World.
2. The constitution calls these entangling alliances.
How does that create hate?
1. We support those that aren’t popular in their own country.
2. Our support is seen as aiding their enemy.
3. This is seen as interference in their national affairs.
4. Note the US has laws against this activity for themselves.
5. Our support is used to oppression the disadvantaged in that country.
6. Humanitarian aid is basically the cause or an oxymoron.
Why don’t they go after their own and leave us out of it?
.
1. They do but internal security forces are formidable.
2. Attacking foreigners is politically more correct and easier.
3. A foreigner like the USA is seen as the identifiable enemy.
4. Religion is only an excuse to motivate retaliation.
5. Internal media is used to focus attention away from internal oppression.
6. Disinformation and dirty tricks is rewarded with more support from us.
The purpose of supporting the power structures in the world is to prevent normal competition and thereby fix the prices of their commodities higher than would otherwise be. The money and power flows to a few people within these oppressed nations. The US is then seen as the enemy for supporting oppression within a country and for the most part this is true. The American people are not party to this and are oblivious to these facts. Their indirect complicity and lack of media attention feeds the inevitable terrorist activities.
Accepting reality is the hardest of all human activity. There is so much disinformation from Media, Government and Religion, that we have little or no foundation for reality. To see reality you have to shut out all of what you are told and respond to experiences that are yours alone. Look at the position that you are in and ask, do you want that to continue?, if yes then mainstream is your route as that is how you got there, if no then Dr. Paul is the only alternative
It's about the Bush support
I think a lot will have to do with how they perceive the prez and his successes or failures. If they cannot admit that our current administration has messed up, then save your breath. You might as well be arguing with a rock.
I would also make the case about Ron Paul's move to eviscerate Roe v Wade and take away its power to enforce de-facto nation-wide abortion rights.
A lot of people in the West Virginia GOP convention were impressed by Ron Paul's idea to use letters of marque and reprisal to hunt down Osama bin Laden. If you look it up on www.ronpaullibrary.com, you can find him talking about this the DAY AFTER 911!! Share this link with them, have them read it, and be prepared for them to say "Oh my God!" The words are incredibly prophetic. http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=755
If folks had taken his advice, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now in Iraq. America needs a man of his wisdom as president and all the others will give us about the same results, so they might as well feel GOOD about someone they vote for, instead of feeling like a wuss voting for someone they don't even like.
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Use this speech...
My wife voted for McInsane. I know. I know.
After we got home from voting, we got into a discussion about foreign policy. I was explaining our our interventionism is creating hatred around the world for the U.S.
I let her read this speech that Ron Paul gave to Congress in 1984...
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul433.html
I know 1984 is before Iraq and 911, but our foreign policies have been messed up for most of this century. (Promoting the industrial-military complex, so bankers can get rich.)
Check it out. Best speech I've ever read, and I listen to Ron Paul and read his writings all the time.
wpsmithjr - excellent speech!
I hadn't read that one before. Definetly one of Dr. Paul's best! With a little editing (for time constraints) and updating (specifics to target bi-partisan breakdown) this speech deliverd at the RNC could not only win the support of the GOP, but more-so the American people. Great find. We have truly chosen the best candidate for President.
Fight over there.
Unfortunately, this neocon argument speaks to a lot of people since a lot of people are football fans.
"The best defense is a good offense." And so if we strike first, we're well defended is the idea.
Flip it around, because the same folks also know:
"The best offense is a good defense."
PeterSchiffSays.COM
talking points
did the vietnamise come over and start attacking us after we left?
if we are out of the iraq equation, they different sects of muslims will go back to fighting each other and forget about us (suni vs kurd vs sheai [sic] )
if we protect our boarders and have more respect for the 2nd amendment, let em try to come over here
Over there
Now this is just MY opinion on the whole "If we don't attack them over there, they will certainly attack us over here". thing, I haven't done much canvesing simply because I'm not a convensing speaker, but the people who I have discussed this with they can't argue this logic, though its definately not the official Paul position.
We know that Al-Queida is a networked enemy and that they have sleeper cells here.
We can't seem to stop random kids from shooting up malls here, whats stopping Al-Queda members here from carrying out attacks when they are already here and our borders are so weak, I don't really know, but its certainly not because they are too busy fighting us over there
Maybe they really do just want us off their lands, attacks by them on other countries have succeeded in that goal, attacks on the US have had the opposite effect.
Now given that knowledge leads us to two options, we can either continue being the aggressive head headed neighbor who insist on policing the world, or we can understand that not everyone in the world wants us on their lands. Of course we SHOULDN'T take our orders from Al-Quida, but we need to understand that their recruitment is growing because we are there. And the whole, how would we react if China had their military over here.
Texans
Representative Paul to my understanding is not for the Trans Texas Corridor and this is a big issue throguhout the state. Many cities are now being affected by these plans and residents are finding out how close to their homes these road and spurs will be. Additional information on the Trans Texas Corridor can be found at a citizen's informoration site named - corridor watch .org (remove spaces).
Response to texas is ready to talk politics
professorjoe - On the he can't win the answer is - nobody can win now . We're headed to an open convention .No one will get enough delegates on the first ballot so lets make sure that TEXAN (emphasize TEXAN) Ron Paul brings as many delegates as possible.
professorjoe
It would probably surprise
It would probably surprise most people, even people in Texas, but we have been intervening in Iraq for the last 87 years and in 200 countries for the last 110 years. What are the results, it such things worked then we should see better results by now.
http://militantjeffersonian.com
"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes
who do you think the new advisors are?
supposed to be out later today.
Borders
You may want to point out that with all of our troops overseas, the borders are open. Be pretty easy for a suitcase nuke to stroll across the border. Where would you really mess up southern US's infrastructure? Oh yea, Houston.
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
As a 7th generation Texan....this is what I would say
I also come a from a very military family ( dad a marine, uncles army, grandfather paratrooper).
This is what (most vets) all will say...."any person that has EVER served in the military is the LAST person that is ever in favor of WAR".
The proof is in the pudding....the military donations for Ron Paul are more than ALL the candidates combined. So the real question to all those that bring up about being attacked here if we are not over there is this...."Do you support the troops? Good, then support who they have DONATED in MASS to and that is RON PAUL. These people have families they want to come home to....they don't want to defend a middle eastern country's border they want to be here to defend our border."
Lastly point out that all the other candidates won their home state...and that as a Texan , Dr. Paul deserves to win his. He has earned it. He has the most principled record in Congress and if you don't vote for him then as a Texan I am disappointed in you. ( That last line is the clincher, b/c you know how texans are ....LOYAL....and they don't like to be called out on their loyalty.)
Jesus is the saviour of the WHOLE WORLD, "As in Adam all die, so too in Christ ALL shall be made alive." (ICor.15:22) All means all. The pagan 'hell' of literal fire & eternal torment is a lie and is SPIRITUAL TERRORISM. http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/blog
Absolutely
Particularly the military donations thing. If it was a close run thing that would be a compelling argument, but the fact that he has more donations from active and retired military than all the other candidates COMBINED is pretty powerful stuff.
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Live Free or Die - Amen to that
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Live Free or Die - Amen to that
Numbers Wrong
On the precinct leader page the phone numbers I printed out were about 80% disconnected. Try just using a phone book. AND BRING HIM TO FORT HOOD.
abt the foreign policy
abt the foreign policy aspect, try to keep it as simple as possible...reduce it to some simplified examples such as...who is more likely to incite aggression...the peaceful guy who is friendly to his neighbors or the violent guy who keeps attacking them....also try and differentiate between islamic terrorists and peaceful muslims...99% of muslims in this world are peaceful... neo-con rhetoric has made it seem that anyone who is against the war in iraq is against national security and is weak on terrorism...that, IMO is the essential point where u have to break through the rhetoric...hope this helps!