This isn't the first election in history. People have been voting provisional for many years.
And not having cameras in a polling place (which could record other people voting) isn't about Ron Paul -- he didn't even know you were a Ron Paul supporter.
Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to make sure that my experience is documented. My neighbor and I tried to monitor the vote process in our precinct on Super Tuesday and were very frustrated by what we witnessed. Here is the story:
We went to go vote near downtown Los Angeles for Ron Paul on tuesday. Our polling location was for 3 different precincts combined. The first table near the door was staffed by a teenager who asked us our address to determine which precinct table to go to next. my neighbor's info was on their list, but mine wasn't because for some reason they changed my polling place just a few days before the primary.
I went to a second table where i was asked my name and party affiliation. I wasn't asked for i.d. The person handing out ballots tried to give me a democrat ballot. I told her I wanted to vote Republican, and that I was registered to that party. All the people at the table started staying "republican. republican" and looking around for the ballots. it was like they had never heard the word before. When the lady finally got it together, she handed me two republican ballots stuck together.
We had the Inkavote system which is a paper/computer voting machine. You mark your vote on a butterfly ballot with ink on the paper. then, you walk over to this "inkavote" machine, insert your ballot, and supposedly the computer scans it. There is no receipt or proof that the computer scanned your vote correctly. A poll worker reads something that tells whether you overvoted or didn't vote. but there is no reassurance that your vote was recorded correctly.
Before leaving the precinct, my neighbor asked the poll workers how the votes were counted. they all just stared at her and said they don't count the votes. Then a lady, who was the poll inspector, said that they would be counting the votes after 8pm when the voting closed. My neighbor asked if it was open to the public and the lady said no. When my neighbor persisted, the lady said that we could watch, but we couldn't participate.
At 7:40 we went back to watch the vote counting process and videotape. Nobody knew if we could videotape and they were all running around trying to find out. One poll inspector came up to us and said rather defensively "i saw you two in here earlier", to which i responded, "yeah, we were voting." This guy was hostile and couldn't give us a reason why we couldn't videotape (except to say that it compromised voter anonymity), but he did say we could film outside in the parking lot if we really wanted to. Then he walked away, and the lady we had talked to earlier was left standing there. We asked her a bunch of questions and got some interesting information.
When we asked about poll watchers and what they did, she said that some people come to look at the voter rosters, get the names of the neighbors and then go to their doors to see if they're voting or something. i wasn't clear on what she meant. She said that special interest groups, like ACORN (a subsidized housing advocate organization), bussed in groups of people from their housing projects, after telling them who to vote for. There is a lot of subsidized housing in this part of los angeles, and apparently the organizations who benefit from this are lobbyist for government programs. The poll inspector explained that this was all good... because of course people should vote for the organizations that get them housing, right?
This poll inspector also told us that they had allowed many people to vote democrat who were actually registered republican. She said that she thought the government was automatically signing people up as Republicans when they became new citizens, so she was allowing them to vote democrat if they wanted to. I don't know if she required them to use a provisional ballot, or if she just gave them a real one.
After talking to this lady for about 5 minutes we asked again if we could film. she told us that we could film once the poll was closed, while the ballots were counted. then she quickly changed her mind and said no we couldn't film while they were counting. it was really strange. so we made sure we could watch the counting and pulled up chairs next to the tables to watch the action.
Since our location was divided into 3 precincts, each different precint had their group of people counting the ballots and dealing with the equipment. It was controlled chaos at it's best. The Inkavote machines that scan the voted ballots sit on top of a heavy duty plastic container that stores the votes, with a hole on the top large enought to reach into. the first thing that was done after closing the polls was to print the long receipts from each of the three machines. Each one printed about 4 or 5 receipts. The poll inspector looked over the receipts without saying anything, then passed them around to her poll workers and asked them all to sign them. This was purely symbolic, as none of them had any idea what they were signing and didn't actually examine the receipts or compare them to the real ballots.
Then, the Inkavote machine was disassembled, and the votes were dumped out on a table. The pink, provisional ballots were separated. The poll inspector told us that provisional votes are not counted at that time because they need to be verified.
We watched as they put the ballots into piles but it seemed too chaotic to get an accurate or valid count. Ballots were falling on the floor and being tossed around the table between several people who didn't seem to have a clue. it was a bunch of poll workers who didn't know what they were doing taking direction from one poll inspector who kinda knew what she was doing. She said with a sigh that it would be great if she could just send the vote results in via satellite rather than count them. it was really crazy. at different times, they would lose things, put things in the wrong bag, put things down carelessly, make random piles.
While we were watching them deal with the ballots it became clear that they weren't going to actually count the votes... just the number of ballots. The poll inspector told us that votes get sent to two other locations after this. Apparently, the poll inspector takes all of the votes in her car to a high school in the neighborhood. After that, we were told, the votes are then all transported to a third location in Norwalk, CA (city records) where they are supposed to count a percentage of the ballots to make sure they match up to the computer, or something like that. Most likely, none of the actual votes are counted... they are just boxed up. The computer receipts are the only thing they look at.
Throughout the evening, my neighbor asked repeatedly if they could tell her the vote totals for her precinct. She was denied multiple times and told to call the county office if she wanted to know the answer. We just wanted to know if there were at least two votes registered for Ron Paul in our precinct, but they wouldn't tell us. They did say that the total number of ballots counted did not match the number recorded by the Inkavote machine. This didn't cause them to blink twice though... they just shrugged, like of course they don't match, what are you going to do?
The poll inspector was rushing everything so she could leave. The other two precinct inspectors were taking longer, and the guy who was hostile to us earlier was taking the longest... fiddling with provisional ballot envelopes for over an hour. he seemed to have quadruple more provisional ballots than the other precincts, but I don't know why.
Throughout the entire process, it felt like there was the possibility of tamper, fraud, or mistake by humans or computers at every possible step of the voting process and the way in which the ballots were handled. i felt like the machines could be broken or rigged easily and no one would ever know. i felt like the poll workers were uninformed and the process of it was not set up for them to understand anyway. i feel like there is too much leeway given to the poll inspectors who are in charge of handling the votes and transporting them.
we should really have a transparent system for counting our votes. how do i know that my vote was actually counted?? I don't.
...and I registered Republican. When I got the registration confirmation card, it had "DEM" as the party affiliation.
I called the number on the card, and the lady said that my affidavit definitely had "Republican" marked. She tried to tell me that the cards must have been sent out before they got my new registration. But that was impossible, because I've never been registered in CA before, and I've certainly never registered as a Donkey anywhere!
She said she would fix the problem and send me a new card. It all worked out, but I always wondered how many people wouldn't be able to vote because someone made a "mistake" on their registration. My wife didn't check the party affiliation on her registration confirmation until after I noticed that mine was wrong.
Based on what I've seen, I would blame these problems on incompetence of our government workers and inefficiencies of the leviathan (state). I had to send in my registration change in Santa Clara County twice before it took; once in early Aug, then again in late Sep. I also, in Sep., registered to vote by mail; after calling them a month later they said that I was NOT registered to vote by mail, but was registered as Republican. I gave up on the vote-by-mail and was able to vote in person.
Bear in mind that government is not run like a corporation. Once you are in, you are in for good. There is little to no incentive to make any real improvements; you won't likely get any recognition or a raise for good/honest performance, nor are you likely to get fired for exceedingly bad performance. Doesn't help that the avg. intelligence of these people is typically, roughly equal to that of a baboon.
My GF and I changed our registration from non-partisan to Republican early Jan. When we went to vote we weren't on the roster...they were about to turn us away when one poll worker suggested someone look at the supplemental blue pages appended to the roster. And there we were! Those people get about $150 a day to work the polls and they don't know what they are doing half the time. I had a postcard with my voter ID on it...and it didn't occur to anybody to actual make a call and verify it...or do something a little more sophisticated with it...
Submitted by saywhat5959 on Fri, 02/08/2008 - 01:46.
I swear to god my mom told me the same thing. We all live in Orange County CA. She is a registered Democrat. She A: didn't have her ID checked and when she went to vote no # to input and she was able to vote for all cadidates.
My older brother went to vote later that night. Same deal registered Republican. No IDs checked. Could only vote for Republicans.
Submitted by Ronpaulusa on Fri, 02/08/2008 - 00:17.
I took 3 of my friends to vote and the same thing happened. I live in new york by the way. They wanted to see ID and then made us fill out a card with our information on it. But, we were still able to vote using the regular old fashion machines.
Voting provisional is NOT new to this election
This isn't the first election in history. People have been voting provisional for many years.
And not having cameras in a polling place (which could record other people voting) isn't about Ron Paul -- he didn't even know you were a Ron Paul supporter.
slpashot who is paying you
slpashot who is paying you and how much do they pay you?
Sorry this is so long, but I
Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to make sure that my experience is documented. My neighbor and I tried to monitor the vote process in our precinct on Super Tuesday and were very frustrated by what we witnessed. Here is the story:
We went to go vote near downtown Los Angeles for Ron Paul on tuesday. Our polling location was for 3 different precincts combined. The first table near the door was staffed by a teenager who asked us our address to determine which precinct table to go to next. my neighbor's info was on their list, but mine wasn't because for some reason they changed my polling place just a few days before the primary.
I went to a second table where i was asked my name and party affiliation. I wasn't asked for i.d. The person handing out ballots tried to give me a democrat ballot. I told her I wanted to vote Republican, and that I was registered to that party. All the people at the table started staying "republican. republican" and looking around for the ballots. it was like they had never heard the word before. When the lady finally got it together, she handed me two republican ballots stuck together.
We had the Inkavote system which is a paper/computer voting machine. You mark your vote on a butterfly ballot with ink on the paper. then, you walk over to this "inkavote" machine, insert your ballot, and supposedly the computer scans it. There is no receipt or proof that the computer scanned your vote correctly. A poll worker reads something that tells whether you overvoted or didn't vote. but there is no reassurance that your vote was recorded correctly.
Before leaving the precinct, my neighbor asked the poll workers how the votes were counted. they all just stared at her and said they don't count the votes. Then a lady, who was the poll inspector, said that they would be counting the votes after 8pm when the voting closed. My neighbor asked if it was open to the public and the lady said no. When my neighbor persisted, the lady said that we could watch, but we couldn't participate.
At 7:40 we went back to watch the vote counting process and videotape. Nobody knew if we could videotape and they were all running around trying to find out. One poll inspector came up to us and said rather defensively "i saw you two in here earlier", to which i responded, "yeah, we were voting." This guy was hostile and couldn't give us a reason why we couldn't videotape (except to say that it compromised voter anonymity), but he did say we could film outside in the parking lot if we really wanted to. Then he walked away, and the lady we had talked to earlier was left standing there. We asked her a bunch of questions and got some interesting information.
When we asked about poll watchers and what they did, she said that some people come to look at the voter rosters, get the names of the neighbors and then go to their doors to see if they're voting or something. i wasn't clear on what she meant. She said that special interest groups, like ACORN (a subsidized housing advocate organization), bussed in groups of people from their housing projects, after telling them who to vote for. There is a lot of subsidized housing in this part of los angeles, and apparently the organizations who benefit from this are lobbyist for government programs. The poll inspector explained that this was all good... because of course people should vote for the organizations that get them housing, right?
This poll inspector also told us that they had allowed many people to vote democrat who were actually registered republican. She said that she thought the government was automatically signing people up as Republicans when they became new citizens, so she was allowing them to vote democrat if they wanted to. I don't know if she required them to use a provisional ballot, or if she just gave them a real one.
After talking to this lady for about 5 minutes we asked again if we could film. she told us that we could film once the poll was closed, while the ballots were counted. then she quickly changed her mind and said no we couldn't film while they were counting. it was really strange. so we made sure we could watch the counting and pulled up chairs next to the tables to watch the action.
Since our location was divided into 3 precincts, each different precint had their group of people counting the ballots and dealing with the equipment. It was controlled chaos at it's best. The Inkavote machines that scan the voted ballots sit on top of a heavy duty plastic container that stores the votes, with a hole on the top large enought to reach into. the first thing that was done after closing the polls was to print the long receipts from each of the three machines. Each one printed about 4 or 5 receipts. The poll inspector looked over the receipts without saying anything, then passed them around to her poll workers and asked them all to sign them. This was purely symbolic, as none of them had any idea what they were signing and didn't actually examine the receipts or compare them to the real ballots.
Then, the Inkavote machine was disassembled, and the votes were dumped out on a table. The pink, provisional ballots were separated. The poll inspector told us that provisional votes are not counted at that time because they need to be verified.
We watched as they put the ballots into piles but it seemed too chaotic to get an accurate or valid count. Ballots were falling on the floor and being tossed around the table between several people who didn't seem to have a clue. it was a bunch of poll workers who didn't know what they were doing taking direction from one poll inspector who kinda knew what she was doing. She said with a sigh that it would be great if she could just send the vote results in via satellite rather than count them. it was really crazy. at different times, they would lose things, put things in the wrong bag, put things down carelessly, make random piles.
While we were watching them deal with the ballots it became clear that they weren't going to actually count the votes... just the number of ballots. The poll inspector told us that votes get sent to two other locations after this. Apparently, the poll inspector takes all of the votes in her car to a high school in the neighborhood. After that, we were told, the votes are then all transported to a third location in Norwalk, CA (city records) where they are supposed to count a percentage of the ballots to make sure they match up to the computer, or something like that. Most likely, none of the actual votes are counted... they are just boxed up. The computer receipts are the only thing they look at.
Throughout the evening, my neighbor asked repeatedly if they could tell her the vote totals for her precinct. She was denied multiple times and told to call the county office if she wanted to know the answer. We just wanted to know if there were at least two votes registered for Ron Paul in our precinct, but they wouldn't tell us. They did say that the total number of ballots counted did not match the number recorded by the Inkavote machine. This didn't cause them to blink twice though... they just shrugged, like of course they don't match, what are you going to do?
The poll inspector was rushing everything so she could leave. The other two precinct inspectors were taking longer, and the guy who was hostile to us earlier was taking the longest... fiddling with provisional ballot envelopes for over an hour. he seemed to have quadruple more provisional ballots than the other precincts, but I don't know why.
Throughout the entire process, it felt like there was the possibility of tamper, fraud, or mistake by humans or computers at every possible step of the voting process and the way in which the ballots were handled. i felt like the machines could be broken or rigged easily and no one would ever know. i felt like the poll workers were uninformed and the process of it was not set up for them to understand anyway. i feel like there is too much leeway given to the poll inspectors who are in charge of handling the votes and transporting them.
we should really have a transparent system for counting our votes. how do i know that my vote was actually counted?? I don't.
I live in Santa Clara county
...and I registered Republican. When I got the registration confirmation card, it had "DEM" as the party affiliation.
I called the number on the card, and the lady said that my affidavit definitely had "Republican" marked. She tried to tell me that the cards must have been sent out before they got my new registration. But that was impossible, because I've never been registered in CA before, and I've certainly never registered as a Donkey anywhere!
She said she would fix the problem and send me a new card. It all worked out, but I always wondered how many people wouldn't be able to vote because someone made a "mistake" on their registration. My wife didn't check the party affiliation on her registration confirmation until after I noticed that mine was wrong.
I live in Pasadena. I
I live in Pasadena. I registered Republican about a month ahead of time. I was not on the list and I had to vote provisional.
Same thing in NJ
The same exact thing happened to my girlfriend as well. I am 100% positive she had done everything before deadlines. I made sure of it myself.
This exact thing happened to my girlfriend
And my brother's registration was never processed. He sent it in months ago and never got any word back.
_________________________________
Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
Anecdotal evidence...
Based on what I've seen, I would blame these problems on incompetence of our government workers and inefficiencies of the leviathan (state). I had to send in my registration change in Santa Clara County twice before it took; once in early Aug, then again in late Sep. I also, in Sep., registered to vote by mail; after calling them a month later they said that I was NOT registered to vote by mail, but was registered as Republican. I gave up on the vote-by-mail and was able to vote in person.
Bear in mind that government is not run like a corporation. Once you are in, you are in for good. There is little to no incentive to make any real improvements; you won't likely get any recognition or a raise for good/honest performance, nor are you likely to get fired for exceedingly bad performance. Doesn't help that the avg. intelligence of these people is typically, roughly equal to that of a baboon.
Incompetence is right!
My GF and I changed our registration from non-partisan to Republican early Jan. When we went to vote we weren't on the roster...they were about to turn us away when one poll worker suggested someone look at the supplemental blue pages appended to the roster. And there we were! Those people get about $150 a day to work the polls and they don't know what they are doing half the time. I had a postcard with my voter ID on it...and it didn't occur to anybody to actual make a call and verify it...or do something a little more sophisticated with it...
incompetence
is built into the system for a reason
WIERD..
I swear to god my mom told me the same thing. We all live in Orange County CA. She is a registered Democrat. She A: didn't have her ID checked and when she went to vote no # to input and she was able to vote for all cadidates.
My older brother went to vote later that night. Same deal registered Republican. No IDs checked. Could only vote for Republicans.
I took 3 of my friends to vote
I took 3 of my friends to vote and the same thing happened. I live in new york by the way. They wanted to see ID and then made us fill out a card with our information on it. But, we were still able to vote using the regular old fashion machines.
I SAID THIS BEFORE!!
There are......
wayyyyyyyy toooooooo mannnnnnyyyy
stoners there for Ron have lost!
its all just sum riggied BULLSHIT!!!!
AMERICAN NEEDS!
Ron Paul!
AMERICAN NEEDS!
Ron Paul!