Ron Paul SOCIALISTS: a great article Paul supporters who don't like the MSM should read
Submitted by Noelle on Fri, 02/08/2008 - 12:57
"Distancing Myself From The Ron Paul Socialists: http://www.nolanchart.com/article1625.html
I too am tired of the socialists slant among some Paul supporters.
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bumptastic
bumptastic
I think this issue has corrected itself 100 times over...
The people who came to this site, and others, advocating a "lawsuit" to force the media into giving Ron Paul fair attention were shot down by those of us who understand that by doing something like this we'd be just as bad as the establishment.
Discussions on this have seemed to right the ship in making those who advocated such actions see the inconcsistency in their thoughts. How the author of that article seems to think it's become a major issue is beyond me, because if there have ever been a more logical group of people, the Ron Paul supporters are them.
i couldn't have written my
i couldn't have written my thoughts better!
The Slant against Ron Paul in MSM is again a currency issue.
The USA is *already* socialist, for a number of reasons. Ever hear RP talk? He talks *as if* the USA is socialist and "it doesn't work" - but that truly free markets and a Constitutionally limited government *would* work.
But it is (and moving towards more) by stealth and deception and by fraud...and by gradualism.
In regards to the media - 6 Corporations (see stopbigmedia.com) own most of the MSM. This could not happen in a true free market economy, where competition eliminates monopolies, and government is not allowed to subsidize, bail out, or grant privilages to.
But is government doing this directly to mainstreme media? Perhaps on some level. However the biggest fraud is the banking system - and there is a connection to the MSM: Banks can and do create credit out of thin air and charge interest on it. That interest on created money, money they didn't have to work for - gives the major stockholders of these banks, and especially the big banks, an ENORMOUS advantage in buying corporations(or controlling stock thereof), including the media corporations. These positions of leverage give power to employ editors and spin people that will get the message *they* want heard over the airwaves.
Many people (most, in fact) - do not understand the banking system, and how, through it, banks quietly control the power centers of society, with money gained by fraud - taken from you and me.
*This* is one of the bigger things that Ron Paul is up against, and the powers that be will do their best to not let it happen. It is one of the bigger reasons he is demonised, marginalised, not given the air time other candidates do and laughed at by people staffing the MSM.
When Jefferson said: ""If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
He was thinking mostly of property (think eminent domain) - but - it should be remembered here than in our age this includes the property of your *mind*. They need to control what the masses think, and in order to do that, they need to control what the masses turn to for information, and entertainment, where ideas can be planted slyly. Whether that be television, newspapers, movies, people of influence in universities etc etc.
You can bet that major privitisation of the internet in some form or another, or major regulations regarding it - will be a push to influence again, the information you are able to access - and that it won't be for the reasons you are told (internet porn, how to make explosives etc) - those will be the reasons held up for the larger agenda of controlling what people think by limiting their access to cheap and easy information.
To get just a clue on this process, for those who are unaware or new to it - this is a 70 minute speech worth listening to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3TAh1gy6rc
In 7 parts.
If you don't beleive it, try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRkCvubUGCM
or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKbE9qCzQo
I Agree
It's All About The Federal Reserve. The MSM will allow a candidate who would pull out of Iraq immediately get elected. They will fight with all their power one who would advocate abolishing the IRS or, worse, the Federal Reserve.
_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels
I tried to point this out one time but was slammed as a racist
I am not a racist ..... the simple fact of the matter is to look at the PEOPLE controlling the meida who are they? Do your know? Who are the PEOPLE that are right under them? And under them? How are the connected to ISRIEAL? Do your homework it will really open your eyes.
It is Ideology, not Israel.
Bringing up Israel, although they may have influence effectively destroys this topic because many people immediately get turned off by some "jewish conspiracy" - and the reaction to that is that someone who says what I have said is some sort of quasi Nazi sympathiser.
The fact is, the banks do control many industries because they have been given the legal ability to create credit out of thin air and charge interest on it, giving them tremendous advantage in the marketplace to buy up corporations. This is what Jefferson tried to warn the American people about long ago.
But the banking "establishment" *IS NOT* limited to a particular people or a particular faith. It is not a "jewish conspiracy" or a "corporate conspiracy" or a "zionist conspiracy" -
It *IS* an ideological conspiracy. One of power and ownership - and controlling the masses "for their own good". It is also driven by greed and monopoly. These vices aren't limited to subsets of people. They are universal to the human race. It is power that corrupts. And it is fear that power may be taken away that drives men to do immoral/unethical and illegal things to keep that power.
The people in power not only want to keep it because of the influence it weilds - but because they actually believe they are entitled to it. Just examine these Gems by Rockefeller:
"We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."
-- David Rockefeller at the Bilderberg Meeting in June 1991 in Baden, Germany, as quoted in the 1991 issue of the Hilaire duBerrier Report
"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."
-- David Rockefeller, Memoirs, 2002
Rockefeller and other elites feel it is their job and right to rule the world.
Licensing ..
The media monopoly is created by the government soley for the productive use of that government .. lately employed in the use of supporting consumption and war.
The airwaves were intended to be free and not subject to licensing requirements. In the end the entire concept of "the people airwaves" has been swung on its head and the airwaves are now used as a weapon of mass distortion against the very citizenry who are its rightful owners.
To right the problem, once again we do not need MORE regulation but much less .....
Who seriously advocates LAWSUITS?
Noone I have heard from ...
What media monopoly?
There is not a monopoly. A monopoly means there is only one provider.
Can you say Rubert Murdock???
Can you say Rubert Murdock???
How can you ask that?
The monopoly is in the issuing of the licenses.
Many need not apply. Success in the licensing process requires that certain "criteria" be met.
You might notice some redundancy in the outcome of that process, Would you conclude that redundancy is the result of coincidence?
No license required
You don't need a license unless you broadcast on the air. Cable news, such as Fox, or news on the internet, or sattelite requires no license.
"conspiracy theory"
The one whereby there exists a monopoly on the marketplace of ideas whereby debate on the North American Union, for example, is labeled pejoratively as "conspiracy theory."
What is your position on the North American Union, Noelle? Do you believe there has been enough public debate prior to enacting the plan to end American Sovereignty?
"We don't have to start a brand new revolution...All we have to do is restore the original Constitution." -Ron Paul
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
Monopoly on ideas?
That's even more absurd. Of course there's not a "monopoly in the marketplace of ideas." There are all sorts of contradicting ideas throughout the media.
I don't understand what you think the NAU has to do with this.
what is the point
Since you cannot or will not answer a direct question, (i.e. what do you think about the range of public debate on the North American Union), what is the point of carrying on any sort of discourse with you?
"We don't have to start a brand new revolution...All we have to do is restore the original Constitution." -Ron Paul
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
range of debate
the range of debate is NAU = Good, from everywhere, with a few token "this guy doesn't like it" to maintain the facade of impartiality.
NAU
There are people that favor the U.S. giving up some of its sovereignty to economic regulatory bodies external to the U.S. government in order to coordinate and manage trade. What do I think about it? I don't like it.
I think you're proving her point
You've taken a completely unrelated post and made it about your wacky theory. Are you this one-dimensional in person?
The post was about the MEDIA, not your theory of the mythical "NAU".
your true colors are showing...
Well, I guess you'd agree with the Corporate Military-Industrial Government-Media's smear campaign then, "slapshot," that Ron Paul is a "fringe" candidate, since Ron Paul openly opposes the "wacky theory" of the North American Union and the NAFTA Superhighway.
So, you're supporting Ron Paul even though he argues against the "mythical" NAU?
"We don't have to start a brand new revolution...All we have to do is restore the original Constitution." -Ron Paul
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
One reason I love Ron Paul
is that he attracts a very diverse crowd. There are a lot of libertarians, of course, but there are also a lot of disenfranchised Republicans and Democrats, former Romney and Huckabee supporters, pro-lifers, pro-gunners, anti-CIA folks, the hands-off-the-Internet crowd, Christians, Agnostics, Atheists, Anarchists, young people, old people, and yes- even some Socialists.
There are plenty of RP supporters who don't agree with him on every issue, and that's FINE. This is what is so great about RP's campaign! It's a big tent under which a huge and diverse group of supporters has gathered.
I have seen a lot of people on this site being dismissive, intolerant, and downright abusive toward other points of view. This needs to stop. We need to be WELCOMING everyone who is lucky enough to have heard about RP. We need to build each other up and encourage each other; not alienate one another. Polite argument is fine, but it doesn't have to be hateful.
Let's focus on building our ranks, becoming delegates, and helping RP win!
And don't forget-- be excellent to each other.
I agree that socialism
is not RP's credo, but the article you site is not, in my opinion, a good place to start making that argument. When people ask for fair treatment for Dr. Paul, they are recognizing that FOX, for example, has signed an agreement with our government to meet certain conditions. It is a contract that, if ignored, can be nullified.
It makes sense to me that Dr. Paul can be the compromise candidate of someone who believes socialism has merit. As a way of organizing society Socialism has a lot to offer. The evidence is that lots of people willingly chose that sort of system. I think the definition of Socialism, as stated in the first sentence of the article, is incorrect.
h-daddy
What What Whaaaa?
(think South Park)
"As a way of organizing society Socialism has a lot to offer. The evidence is that lots of people willingly chose that sort of system."
please tell me you're joking.
I don't disagree that a lot of people chose that system. I do disagree that that is "evidence" that is has a lot to offer. Socialism is popular, but offers nothing.
I'm not joking at all!
The poster below gave a very good answer. Think about it.
Your last statement makes no sense at all. If socialism "has nothing to offer" then why would anyone opt for it? Also, lots of governments/societies have socialistic aspects to them. "Socialized" medicine being an obvious example. In the good old USA we have lots of government programs federal and local - than are derived from socialism. I'm not saying they are all good, but, our democracy, such as it is, has chosen them.
h-daddy
I don't belive in socialism either
I don't belive in socialism either, Evan42
But one of the hallmarks of a free society is you may establish socialistic communities that are organized according to socialistic ideals. And there were many attempts to establish socialistic communities in the early USA, I once read. But they failed and disintegrated after a while. It is well to remember that you will, in general not be able to establish a capitalistic community that is organized according to capitalistic free market ideals in any kind of socialistic society however. So socialists supporting Ron Paul, is not all that strange, I think. Rather it is a compliment to the kind of society he (and we) stand for.
No you can't:
"But one of the hallmarks of a free society is you may establish socialistic communities that are organized according to socialistic ideals."
In a free society if I am the lone holdout resisting a socialist agenda, the only way for it to happen would be for the others to assume the right to go ahead against my wishes to keep my right to property individually. And this type of society is NOT free.
Against my wishes to keep my right to property individually.
In a free society if I am the lone holdout resisting a socialist agenda, the only way for it to happen would be for the others to assume the right to go ahead against my wishes to keep my right to property individually. And this type of society is NOT free.
Agree absolutely Evan42! But wouldn't that be against the constitution Dr. Paul and most people here, are fighting for?
So, if a limited government can be established. I wouldn't worry too much about socialists supporting dr. Paul. Their historic track record in the US isn't all that impressive, as can be seen here:
History of the socialist movement in the United States
I'm very much more worried about the present corporacracy, than about socialists supporting Dr. Paul's limited government.
And I realize that I should have pointed out that what I had in mind was voluntary sosialistic communities and not local revolutions of the proletariat :-)
...
1) No, allowing a lone holdout wouldn't be against the constitution at all. I don't see where you allow for socialism under the constitution, properly read (granted one could mis-interpret either the commerce clause or the supremacy clause and say that it allows communism/fascism/or anything else).
2) The socialists got everything the wanted, just not via candidates with -S after their names.
Compare the Socialist party platform of yesterday with what the Republicans and Democrats have all taken as a given today.
I would say the socialists are very happy with their progress... maybe just a little upset they had to sneak it though via the major parties, not their own. But they got what they wanted nonetheless.
3) I would in no way support any movement that sided with socialism as the "lesser of two evils" against "the evil media". Sorry, but that's where I, and several others, check out. You and Alex Jones are on your own. Freedom ain't worth giving up just to beat "them".
Wrong
Fox did not sign any contract with the government to meet certain conditions. It is a private station.
All broadcasters are licensed by the FCC
and the terms of the license are a contract. The license can be revoked.
h-daddy
Untrue
That's only if you broadcast on the airwaves. Fox is on cable. You don't need an FCC license to be on cable.