Regarding Libertarian Party
Regarding the earlier LP email suggesting that it is time to come home:
I'm not ready to jump back home yet. I will wait till McCain crosses the magic number or until after the brokered convention (should Paul not become the candidate).
I think its important to state that I have labeled myself as a libertarian before I came across this campaign. I had not joined their party, and had remained a republican to vote for Dr Paulthis cycle. If the republicans dont support our candidate they can count on me "going home" to the Libertarians.
I think you will find that the bulk of Ron Pauls stances closest to the goals of the libertarian party.
If you havent yet, I would at least suggest you look at their site: http://lp.org/
Check this libertarian magazine as well: http://reason.org
If you agree with Ron Paul, you may find that if this current election doesnt go our way, to at least look them up. If we end up with Clinton vs McCain, the LP candidate stands a good chance and you might find their platform to be the most digestable.
If we could keep our grassroots together their party might be a good home for us. With our time and money we could really make them a viable party.
Please watch your language, lets keep this a respectfull conversation.
I just posted a new thread...
but it would answer this too.
See: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/36810
the GOP is trying to DIVIDE and CONQUER Us! Don't let them!
Stay in the Republican and CHANGE it from WITHIN!
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat pork!
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat meat!
nathalja, you nailed it! THE GOP is trying to DIVIDE and CONQUER
us, and unfortunately, its working, because we are being told by folks like yourself that we have to stay in the republican party and change it from within.
The mistake you are making is that you are advocating giving them your vote, then expecting them to change. WRONG! WRONG!! WRONG!!!
You want the GOP to change as quickly and as efficiently as possible? Then you DEMAND they change by withholding your vote from them and telling them they must change FIRST before they get your vote.
However, that takes the courage to vote for someone who may not win but who does support the principles of limited government. Do you have that courage?
So if it worked for them ..
then why can't the Libertarian party take advantage of the Ron Paul movement inside the Republican party? I think their numbers plus ours become the majority of the party. IMHO the worst case scenario is we lose the presidential election but get every other election our way. All the other elected officials flying the Republican banner would be more like us. If one group is in a position to hijack the Republican party, I would say the Libertarians stand the best chance right now. Don't DIVIDE, MULTIPLY! RP's * Libertarians = New Republican party.
What I am saying is that there is actually an easier way to...
make the Republican Party change: Don't vote for them. There is no need to actually get people who think like us elected. As long as we do not vote for the Republicans, as long as we vote for parties that support the ideas of liberty and limited government (the libertarian and constitution parties), then we will force the people who are already elected to change. We will force them to actually "court" and work for our vote. As long as we stay united, but here's the thing...stay united and NOT vote for them, they (the Republicans) will be forever working for our vote. The mistake is made when you vote for them and THEN expect them to change. It doesnt work that way, it never has. You want the Republican Party to change? Then do not vote for them. Not this year, not ever. As long as you continue to vote Libertarian or Constitution Party, there are only two possible outcomes: The Republicans, in their vain attempt to win your vote, become more like the Constitution/Libertarian parties (which is good), or the Constitution and/or Libertarian parties themselves win, (which is also good).
Duh
This will not work becuase a lot of Ron Paul Support comes from independents who do not ever want to be associated with the Republican Party.
Also, our numbers are hurt because a lot of RPers who switched over never got counted. DO NOT be disillusioned about how many republicans are ron paul supporters -- the numbers are not lyinng.
The sad matter of the fact is that a lot of Republicans are entrenched by other people telling them who to vote for, and the turnout was MUCH higher than the campaign expected, and momentum never built up, and McCain came from nowhere, tractoring a lot of "disillusioned" republicans who THOUGHT he was still a maverick like he used to be.
If we had more time, we might have been able to grab more republicans before the primaries. The fact of the matter is that we didn't. And it's too late in many states. Waiting till the convention is a fool's errand. Running on a third party's infrastructure gives us a chance.
You know, that email made me.....
not want to jump back to the LP......
I, a resident of PA, have not had the chance to vote for RP in the Primary yet...
I thought that letter was totally classless.
How's RP doing in PA?
I think we should have a good chance in PA, but especially in Vermont!
Come on people, let's GO!!!
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat pork!
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat meat!
I agree
Join the GOP, and help move them back to conservatism. Vote for Ron Paul Republicans when you can find them, Libertarians when you can't. Remove barriers to entry for third parties if and when possible.
That's the most practical approach.
Libertarian Vote... Not coming home...Building a Bridge!
I find this to be a shining example of how the rEVOLution will continue to change this Country. "Freedom is Popular" and it's catching on... Here in South Florida from West Palm Beach to Miami, we are transforming our "Meet Ups" for Ron Paul into organised "Republican Liberty Caucuses" http://www.meetup.com/sea...
As well as getting behind our local leaders who are running for State Offices as well as Federal House Representives on the Ron Paul Platform...or the "Liberty Platform" as members of the GOP. Dean Santoro is our guy in District 21 Miami / Dade http://www.santoroforcong... and Alexander Hasler is preparing for a Broward / Ft. Lauderdale run in 2010.... (after we get Dean in). Picture 2 dozen or so "New Liberty Republicans" to learn from Dr. Paul and vote in concert for "Liberty". Let's face it people...this is a generational rEVOLution... The Status Quo of the "Baby Boomers" and their mis-management of this Country...or... Generation X (and below) who are getting stuck with this $54 Trillion Dollar Bill that is past due and gaining penalties. We are coming of age and power and we are having a voice. An effect on the Governments and people around us. Soon we will be the Generation that is in control of the postions of power, as the "Boomers" become ever more dependent upon the generations below them. The Status Quo will not last because, the people afford to tolerate it. Ultimately the "Boomers" are the ones who will get caught in the finiancial collapse of Social Security... And I some how find it fitting.
In the end: I applaud the succeses of Alaska and the rest of the rEVOLution. From the "Guy Falks Money Bomb" to the Austin Texas "Tea Party" ( http://youtube.com/watch?...) . The Victory in Louisana, Nevada and Maine ( in my mind anyway). Texas is still to come and he is a favored "Son" by the State GOP. The infastructure is built... the Questions is what are Ron, Rand and Trevor as well as the rest of the troops going to do now ??? Will Dr. Paul endorse the Libertarian Candidate while staying out of a 3rd. Party run??? How could we possibly vote for McCain ?
Think "Meet Up Liberty Caucus GOP" . Take over your Precint, County and State. Get organised and powerful positions and take BACK CONTROL of your local Governments. Act like Soveriegn States and Organise against the Federal Governments' endless abuse of power. Education, Organasition, Patience and Princapal are our weapons of victory,
Remember...America didn't get here overnight and we will not change overnight either.
Great Article and Information!
From a PCO in Washington State, I agree with you. Like myself, so many of us have never been involved in politics before this revolution began. Our heads are out of the sand, and it's time to take our Country back. We need to get in at the lowest levels, and work our way up. It will pay dividends down the road, sooner than people think. It's important to remember that Libertarians ARE Republicans, and that whether people like it or not, only 2 parties get to be in the debates and get the most serious recognition in the media.
PLEASE WAIT until AFTER the National Convention!!!
I know that there are people on here who are planning to return to or join the Libertarian or Constitution Parties. That is fine, however, please DO NOT leave the Republican Party until AFTER the National Convention.
Listen, we do not know exactly what Ron Paul is planning; however, he has specifically stated on his website that he is NOT going Third Party; that he will ONLY work towards liberating our country through the REPUBLICAN Party.
We will not know until after every single state has had its primary or caucus, just what is going to happen.
If Huckabuck topples McInsane, there WILL be an important CONVENTION, and we need EVERY SINGLE Ron Paul supporter to be registered as a REPUBLICAN so that we can go to the convention and support him.
If you switch Parties, you CANNOT go to the convention!
***
There is no point in leaving the Republican Party right now: All that will do is allow the GOP to say "Hey, none of those Ron Paul supporters were real Republicans anyway - they were imposters!"
Even if you were not a Republican before, please, you must realize that being LP or CP or even Independent, is all but useless with the way the electoral system has been stacked.
The ONLY way we will get our message out is to remain in one of the two Parties.
We must FIGHT FROM WITHIN - just like the NeoCONs did to the Republican Party in the 1970's - they were Democrats who realized that it was easier to transform the Republicans than their own Comrades.
It is high time we kick those evil usurpers out and take the Republican Party back for all true Conservatives, Libertarians and Constitutionalists!
***
Please, stop debating any other path. Yes, I agree that this is very annoying, and quite confusing. As a life-long Republican I have been nearly ripping my hair out, and I almost left the Party myself after I voted last Tuesday. The problem is that if I truly want to make a statement, it must be done ON or AFTER the November election - as mass exodus of registered Republicans, or just a very low voter-turnout (but that means not voting at all, since it is signing in that actually affects how they calculate turn-out; so I hope there are no referendums or important local elections this year, because unless Paul is on the ballot I want my absence to be noticed, since it will be the very first time I will not be voting).
I HATE the GOP!
But, joining another Party will get me nowhere :(
Until the system changes, there is no way to have a real effect except from within.
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat pork!
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat meat!
I received the same email
I received the same email today, and this is the email I sent them in response:
Even so Ron Paul has a better chance of becoming President than any LP candidate. My loyalties are with Ron Paul until the end. I am offended that you would ask me to give up my ardent support after all I have given his campaign. This is not about the LP or the GOP, it is about supporting the candidate who holds true to the principles that I stand for, and I will do this for Ron Paul because he as done the same for me.
Best Regards,
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I think everyone should do the same. Don't let the LP fragment us. This is the LP email address:
info@lp.org
We are going strong
Become a delegate. Signup. Donate. Canvass.
NO
SPREAD THE MESSAGE OF FREEDOM
TAKE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FROM THE ELITES
WE WILL WIN
100,000 RON PAUL REVERES IS ALL WE NEED
WE CAN DO IT
DO NOT TALK OF ABANDONMENT
WHEN THE PEOPLE ARE INFORMED, WE WILL WIN
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
The Libertarian Party has a
The Libertarian Party has a great deal of support for Ron Paul. Same with The Constitution Party. Both appear to have an open invitation for RP to be their nominee.
Dr. Paul has much support from Republicans, Democrats and even the Green Party as well.
If only there was some way to unite us all and get us away from the party lines which divide us....
If we were united, all rallying behind Ron Paul together as Americans, instead of members of particular parties - I believe we would win in a landslide.
Maybe what Libertarian and Constitution party members should be doing at this time is letting their leadership know that those parties should be supporting and endorsing Ron Paul 100%.
Ron Paul is our best chance to win - we should unite to make sure it happens.
...
Behind the curve...
That notification of support was done months ago. Their own rules constrain them, as has been pointed out many times on here.
"Welcome to 2008: The Year of Ron Paul!"
Constitution Party for me
Tonight, I made the choice to move over to the Constitution Party. I have spent part of the night trying to figure out who we can ask to run who will be a serious candidate -- and vice.
I still suppoprt Ron Paul - am so grateful to him and his staff for their efforts.
I see it this way -- Ron has "no" to a third party run.
The Constitution Party and the Lib parties have their nominating in April and May -- so we need to find good candidates.
As the Constitution hangs by a thread -- I feel we cannot afford to lose this election -- too many civil rights -- already gone.
I think with Mike Bloomberg (another cfr) running -- a good fourth party candidate -- who is pro Constitution -- may have a hope.
Anyways -- that is what I am working on.
Probably beginning next week -- I am going through the emotional withdrawls right now -- instead of spending two to three hours a day working for Ron Paul -- I will start hard on the Constitution Party effort.
Please wait until AFTER the Convention!!!
See my post above!
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat pork!
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat meat!
I won't commit to being a
I won't commit to being a member of ANY party in 2009. I am a Republican at least until the June senate primary in NJ anyway. I will re-evaluate at that point.
I won't vote for McCain or for Hillary.
I prefer our movement to take over the GOP. This may not happen. We could easily dominate a third-party IF we ALL agreed to move to one. I don't think that will happen.
The important thing is to stay organized and stay active. We need to keep advocating for liberty, no matter what happens in November.
----
Registered Republican
Federalist Society Member
REAL Conservative for Ron Paul
----
Registered Republican
Federalist Society Member
REAL Conservative for Ron Paul
The Libertarian Party should be the home of this r3VOLution!
People say third parties don't work, and then gloss over the fact that Ron Paul has been in Congress as a Republican for 20 years...and in that time the Republican party has become more and more drunk with the power of the state.
The anti-third party crowd also gloss over the reality that the Republican Party has NEVER, repeat NEVER been a party of smaller government. They have been a party that has paid LIP SERVICE to the ideals of the Constitution (and they don't even do that anymore). Reagan promise to cut the Department of Education and never did. Oh, but wait, the Republicans always said that the problem was that they were the minority party, and if you just elect them, they will shrink the size of the federal government!!! Oh, how easily we are fooled! We elected the Republicans, and what happened? They wasted money worse than the Democrats could ever dream possible!
If you want to keep living in a fantasyland where the Republicans used to stand for, stand for, or ever will stand for, smaller government and liberty, then go ahead. Vote Republican, and while you pine away, hoping that corrupt party will change, those "Republicans" you vote for will be in D.C. living high on the hog...on your dime. At least those of us who vote Libertarian are not saps.
VOTE LIBERTARIAN!!!!!!!!!!!
Its not about about what the
Its not about about what the republican party is or used to be, it's about what we can make it become. The reality is the LP nor any 3rd party has ever managed to present anything near a valid challenge to any of the big two.
It not about party its about principle and maximizing our efforts. One of the reasons I never joined the LP was because of to much party pride and not enough real action. It was always a big argument. And I already am seeing that here from the party loyalist trying to get us to join them.
I don't think we should or should not take over the Republican party because of what it stands for or doesn't, we can change that. I think we should take it over because it is already a viable party and a better vehicle to reach our goals sooner because of it's viability.
If your going to sit here and whine about the RPs past discretions don't waste your time I could care less. I am simply looking for the best vehicle to go from point a to point b. I am not interested in all the LP party virtues vs the RP discretions. I am already aware of them and they are not that important in this particular decision.
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If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. Samuel Adams
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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!
Get Prepared!
hawkiye, the reason I bring up past performance of the GOP...
is because those who argue that this revolution must occur by way of the Republican party will point to the lack of success of the Libertarian Party as proof that the 3rd party route is a bad idea...but then you won't take into account the lack of success in getting the principles of liberty and smaller government enacted by way of the GOP.
So, it IS about what the republican party is AND what it USED to be. If you or anyone else is going to argue that a return to the principles of the Constitution is better accomplished through a current political party, then you are going to have to do more than just merely assert that. You are going to have to provide evidence (which you can provide none of), and I am going to be allowed to contradict your position with actual evidence (which I have done). At no time in the past has the Republican party ever actually done what folks like yourself claim you can make it do: stick to the Constitutional properties of liberty and limited government. ERGO, your case for action through the Republican party is very weak, at the very least, if not outright invalid.
THANK YOU!
We CAN CHANGE the GOP from within!
If the NeoCON Trotskyites could usurp the GOP in the 1970's, we can do the same today!
The time is now!!!
We must learn from the past - Third Parties do not work; changing a Party from within does!
The LP and CP will never come together beyond Ron Paul.
None of the Pat Buchanan true Conservatives will join either of those Parties for 2 reasons - 1) a few picky ideological differences 2) they know from first-hand experience that it gets us nowhere :(
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat pork!
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat meat!
I think the Ron Paul
I think the Ron Paul grassroots machine could make the Libertarian party a viable party if we got behind that. However I think it would take time. I think taking over the Republican party would be a better vehicle that would get us to our goals in the shortest amount of time.
The reason why I say that is because the if w took over the Republican party we would get the mindless voters who already vote Republican because that their party, and we would have a larger voting block sooner.
Making the LP viable would be a longer road because of the stigmas and building a large enough voting bloc to be viable. We would also get some opposition from the LP fundamentalist/purists from within the party and the fake beltway libertarians like those who tried to smear Dr. Paul. The LP need to realize if we come home to them we will be taking over that party just as much as we would the RP. They might not like that.
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If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. Samuel Adams
-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!
Get Prepared!
It didn't work in 1988 - it won't work now :(
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat pork!
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat meat!
It's not about RP running Libertarian
RP is running as a Republican. Period. This does not mean that if he doesn't get the nomination that the RP Revolution shouldn't vote Libertarian. Stay in whatever party you currently are and where you feel you can make the most change. For me that is the GOP (as much as I disagree with most in it) but we can VOTE however we please, and I think that if we don't have a liberty-approved GOP, or whatever, candidate that we all vote Libertarian. Hopefully, RP will name an alternative for us.
Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both
Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both
They are good people, I was
They are good people, I was a leader in my state LP for many years. I have come to the conclusion that many in America a wedded to the two party system.
RP has achieved more media and electoral success for a Presidential run than the LP has achieved in 30 years. In some ways, he bravely stood on the shoulders of a lot of people who have run and educated the masses before.
My opinion is that we should turn our attention to Congressional runs after the primary is done. Here is where we can have influence even more.
Libertarian Party is for open borders
The platform of the Libertarian Party includes opposition to "intiiation of force," which is Randian libertarianism. That principle makes them come to absurd conclusions like to leave the borders open because you would be initiating force against intruders. That's not the kind of libertarianism that appeals to me.
HAHAHA--that's funny!
Come to Denver and see the Platform debate and say that! You obviously have no clue what's going on there. Go research what happened in Portland in 2006, too.
Besides, who follows the bleeping platform anyway?