Someone please explain this!
In another post, this is what another stated about Washington's numbers and delegates. I ask about this further below (below the dotted line. Some one please read all this and please answer my below question(s). Thank you!
The straw poll numbers have NOTHING to do with DELEGATE counts. You can have a precinct that has 20 people… and 15 are for McCain and 5 for Paul… and only 3 delegate slot… Let’s just say Paul gets ALL 3 delegate slots… what you will see on MSM news outlets will be McCain-15 …. Paul-5. However Ron Paul has ALL 3 delegate slots… THAT IS WHAT MATTERS!
i had to call and get this straightened out as many of us were going nuts over these numbers online… THEY ARE ONLY STRAW POLL NUMBERS…. NOT DELEGATE COUNTS.
The person i spoke to at the RP headquarters said to spread this far and wide so we all know what these numbers are.
Remember we also have about 2000 uncomitted - these are all Ron Paul people.
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Ok, this is where I am a bit confused by these numbers?
On February 10th, 2008 www.ronpaulrevo... says:
Ok, suppose that it results in the exact way that you describe.
20 people show up and there are only 3 delegate slots available.
Ok, McCain has 15 delegates.
Ron Paul has 5 delegates,
Well, here is where I am confused. If McCain has 15 delegates - that is, "3 times" that of Paul - then how could Paul get all 3 delegate slots like that? I mean if he gets completely blown away by McCain by 3 to 1 (15 to 5) then how in the heck does Paul get anything? Let alone all 3 slots? I mean don't get me wrong, I want RP to win and I want this all to be true - as much as possible! Please explain because this sure has me confused anymore.
Confusion
Here is where people get confused. Delagates are free to do what they want.
This means - this:
Even if McCain got most of the states delegates --- IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THEY WERE ALL McCain SUPPORTERS or NOT. John McCain coud've walked away with 550 out of 600 delagates but so what?? Those 550 people are free to change their mind & vote whoever they feel like voting for. Actually every single 600 delagates are free to vote for Ron Paul if they so choose.
All Dr. Paul has to do is make sure he has enough delagates to qualify. As far as delagates go...as far as we're concerned they all want to vote for Ron Paul!
IT IS NOT A HARD JOB. IF YOU HONESTLY WANT RON PAUL IN THE WHITE HOUSE; BECOME HIS DELAGATE. IT IS PLAIN & SIMPLE. BLACK & WHITE.
Obama = O.ne B.ig A.ss M.istake A.merica
Delegates in WA
It could happen easily enough. Many of the McCain supporters are not passionate and, although they came to the caucus, they might not be willing or able to spend more time at the district and county conventions - this is what they're required to do as delegate. Generally speaking, the Ron Paul supporters here are more than willing to go to the district convention. So they nominate themselves and get voted in as delegate for the precinct.
So, the outcome can be effected by who is willing to spend more time down the road.
BTW, I'm a delegate to the WA State 45th District convention!
So are we!
My husband and I are delegates
to the 45th District convention too.Small world!
Waiting to hear
I'm waiting to hear some Alaskan style news from Washington.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/36385
So, what is the deal with the "uncommitted" votes?
Some are saying those were RP people. That makes no sense. Can you give some insight?
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." - Romans 12:18
Brilliant article that explains why we love Dr. Paul:
http://lewrockwell.com/orig12/farber-r1.1.1.html
Some people vote uncommitted because
they don't want anybody to know
they are for Paul so they will be
picked as a delegate.If you are in a room full of McCain people
you can't say you are for Paul
and expect them to vote for you.
It's a game.
Are you saying...
that everyone knows who you vote for? This is a public vote? I thought all straw polls were secret. You make your choice on a ballot and throw it in a box.
How is it for WA?
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." - Romans 12:18
Brilliant article that explains why we love Dr. Paul:
http://lewrockwell.com/orig12/farber-r1.1.1.html
WA really wants you to
WA really wants you to declare a canidate first.
I was told at my meeting before hand that PEOPLE WHO SIGN IN MUST MUST MUST DECLARE A CANDIDATE.. and someone asked "What if they are uncommited?" and the speaker said "They must declare a canidate unless they are uncommited."
So essentially in WA they must declare one .. unless they don't declare one. lol some logic ehh?
The straw poll vote is taken from the sign in form so everybody can see it. (I did not know this would be used for the purpose of a straw poll btw) You fill it out when you arrive.
The Caucus chair (normally the PCO) can decide how to conduct the caucus vote. This is done via voice vote, hand vote, tally marks, open paper ballot, or secret paper ballot.. whatever the chair and caucus members decide on doing.
Ties are resolved by flipping a coin, paper rock scissors, or whatever people choose but they must be resolved.
It is usually very social and free form and plainly clear who a delegate is supporting.
Sure.
Sure. I will just repost what I posted in a different thread:
When you walk into the caucus room, you sign in. At that time, there are several columns (name, address, etc). One of those columns is "Presidential Preference". You are free to write in whatever you want here: a candidate still in the race, someone who has dropped out, or "Uncommitted" if 1) you really are uncommitted or, 2) you would rather not reveal who you support. They tally up this column for EVERYONE that attended the caucuses. This is source of the straw poll numbers we're seeing.
Later, at 1:30 we voted for delegates. These delegates are really what matter, because they'll have a say next month in the District convention (and then the WA state convention).
Some Paul supporters went into their caucuses and wrote down "Uncommitted" in the preference column/straw poll. They did this because they wanted to be a delegate, but perhaps they were in a strong McCain precinct - somewhere where a Paul supporter would not be elected as delegate. In this sort of situation, since they had written specified they were Uncommitted, they could have nominated themselves as delegates to the district convention.
So it is a strategy in maximizing the number of delegates Dr. Paul would end up with. As has been mentioned before, the straw poll is meaningless - it is the position of the elected delegates that matters.
Edit: P.S. This strategy was suggested by the official campaign in their Washington state caucus packet. This information was emailed to many people here in Washington (including myself) before the caucuses. So it makes sense why we see so many "Uncommited"s in the results.
OK... more questions...
Thank you for the insight. I am still trying to understand. We just had our Presidential Preference Poll and conventions in Alaska. Our "straw poll" or popular vote did matter because it determined the number of delegates that would represent each candidate at the state convention. We had a majority of RP supporters as delegates, but they would be "bound" to vote for the candidates that were determined by the preference poll vote.
In WA, it appears that the straw poll is for fun only? The delegates are actually what "counts" towards votes for each candidate? So, whoever has the most delegates wins the state? That doesn't sound right. Please, clarify the process for WA state.
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." - Romans 12:18
Brilliant article that explains why we love Dr. Paul:
http://lewrockwell.com/orig12/farber-r1.1.1.html
It is a little funky, I
It is a little funky, I agree.
However, everyone is aware of your presidential preference before voting you in as a delegate. Or, at least, they're comfortable with your being "uncommitted" and that you will choose some candidate down the road. In other words, people DO know what they're voting on. Your presidential preference is public knowledge.
The delegates that were selected today will take part in district conventions. At these conventions, a similar process will take place, and delegates will be sent to the WA state convention. It is here that 18 of the WA state delegates are selected.
19 other delegates will be selected and allotted proportionally after the Feb 19th primary poll. If Ron Paul were to get 20 percent in the primary, for example, he would probably get 4 delegates plus whatever he got from the caucus results.
Finally, I believe there are 3 more delegates that Washington State gets, but these are selected by the current state GOP leadership. My guess is they'd give those to McCain but I really have no idea there.
Edit: It is possible that I am completely misinformed and what I've posted is incorrect. As far as I know, this info is accurate - but if someone sees something I got wrong, feel free to correct me!
So the vote that actually COUNTS
is coming up on Feb. 19th? Everyone in the state comes out and votes AGAIN on a presidential preference? Why is the MSM making a big deal of these numbers if they are not official? Will the vote on the 19th designate delegates for the candidates?
I am going crazy trying to understand if RP can still pull a WIN in WA!!
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." - Romans 12:18
Brilliant article that explains why we love Dr. Paul:
http://lewrockwell.com/orig12/farber-r1.1.1.html
No no no :)Half (18) of the
No no no :)
Half (18) of the WA state delegates are allotted based on the caucus results (today and the upcoming conventions). The other half (19) are allotted based on the results of the upcoming primary election - on the 19th.
My understanding is that Paul supporters (if you include those who specified "Uncommitted" as their presidential preference) have a plurality of delegates in WA state! That is very good news. I would translate that as meaning Ron Paul won the WA state caucus. We'll have to wait for word from the official campaign to see if that is really the case.
So, the caucus results will be posted Monday...
and the straw poll results today are truly meaningless?
This is a crazy process.
I hate the MSM.
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." - Romans 12:18
Brilliant article that explains why we love Dr. Paul:
http://lewrockwell.com/orig12/farber-r1.1.1.html
The straw poll is taken from
The straw poll is taken from the sign in sheet. Yes, it is meaningless.. and caucus goers and workers as far as I can tell were not told that the poll would be used at all. (perhaps nobody higher up even knew) We knew we had to report the results extra early to the press this year, but we did not know exactly what we would report.. I assumed it would be the delegate count, but apparently they used the sign in form as a straw poll.
WA has a very confusing but solid and fair caucus system, but it does not translate very at all well into immediate results.
They elect precinct delegates, that elect district delegates, that elect county delegates, that elect state delegates. So they continue to shave off numbers..
They also hold a public primary that anyone from any party can vote in. The only bad part about this is they do it partly on Diebold optical scan machines (and mail in ballots).
You also need to take into account that this is the first year in a LONG TIME that WA has even been a target of the national press. WA moved its primary up from April(?) and it takes days for the results in.. far as I can tell nobody outside the state has ever really cared much about the WA state caucus before.. I'm not sure the GOP knew what exactly to give the MSM..
To be honest, I'm not sure
To be honest, I'm not sure if the WA State GOP will post the delegate totals on Monday. In their press release/post, the GOP could just be talking about the straw poll totals (which really don't matter, but are better for a TV news sound-bite). I think I saw a post stating that the Ron Paul headquarters in Seattle would post info once they had it all aggregated, though. We'll see.
Don't worry about it. And don't expect the media to pay attention if Paul wins. They haven't up to now, and it would be a big surprise if they decided to start. But I'm still very proud of how my state did today!
Honestly its because people
Honestly its because people are dumb and lazy. Many people that go to their caucus don't even know what the delegate stuff is all about, and will nominate the person who is the best speaker, best leader etc. Other people are lazy and dont want to attend.
This is actually quite common. Just look at the Maine Results.
At my caucus today in Spokane we had 6 paul supporters, 2 Romney, 1 McCain, 1 huckabee supporter, and an uncommitted (Paul supporter).
We had 2 Paul supporters elected as delegates and one Romney Supporter (who leans towards Paul). I was elected with 10/11 votes which means that I had the support of the Huckabee person and Romney people. I dont think I got the McCain vote (:
Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.
Well...
Not all states are "winner take all."
So, in most states if a candidate receives, say, 20% of the vote, he gets a certain number of delegates automatically, regardless if another candidate gets 75% of the vote.
Not sure if the guy wrote that correctly
If McCain brings 15 people to vote for McCain delgates and Ron Paul brings 3 people to vote for Ron Paul delegates then McCain wins.
Not sure how he is getting that math
Because each delegate slot
Because each delegate slot is voted for. If 15 McCain supporters show up and no one wants to be a delegate to the county convention. Then all the RP supporters nominate themselves to be the county delegates. Then McCain gets none even though he's polling at 75%.
Otherwise you get situation like this one I encountered today. 2 McCain supporters and 1 RP. The McCain couple wanted their vote to count, wanted to elevate their guy, but didn't want to be delegates. They only took the delegate slot to maintain control on behalf of thier boy. The RP supporter got teh alt slot anyway although i'm not sure how and I don't care. The point is what matters is the presidential preferance of the elected delegates. Not the exit/straw poll results.
After that it's who are the alts and do the primary delegates have the will to go to the next stage?
What we need to be doing is taking the list of regestered voters. Eliminate teh democrats. Cross referenced that list to RP supporter/doner list and RP supporters removed. Effectively isolating Republican non RP supporters. Then target them for conversion by way of education.
"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."