Seriously - about 9/11
"Truthers" are not some militant group of crazies. There is no organized group. We are all just people. Do you subscribe to "group think"? That "truthers" are a special group of people, different from everyone else, people who's support of Ron Paul is not welcome?
Why don't we really try and spilt up into groups - those that accept Jesus Christ as their savior for example, and those that don't. Then let's ask Ron Paul which he accepts. Anyone who doesn't FIT, let's exclude. We must only accept those groups who think like we do ! F@%k freedom !
But seriously, folks, I'm so angry and sad tonight after reading through some of the recent threads. There's a serious lack of tolerance here lately.
Why are truthers being attacked, or, worse, patronized?
I've held my tongue happily, I've ignored many threads regarding 9/11, as so many people here have all along, in the interest of trying not to alienate potential Ron Paul supporters. You people that are attacking "truthers" today, are you aware of how many Ron Paul supporters there are who have seen through the 9/11 lie and yet stay quiet about it, don't post about it, for the good of the campaign?
What some people call the Truth Movement is just people, people just as diverse as Ron Paul's supporters. There is no more peaceful or well educated group of people out there, from my own experience. These millions who, 7 years after the fact, refuse to give up, simply want to know WTF happened, want to know what's really behind the justification being used to hurl the US toward h@ll in a handbasket.
People say, 'where's the evidence?' There's a ton of it. Please don't shake your head, please read what I have to say, it's mercifully short... Steven Jones' x-ray spectrometry results on WTC debris and dust show conclusively that Thermate was used to demolish the trade towers. Beyond any reasonable doubt. The elements and their percentages that are present on the samples are not only consistent with Thermate use, but are a perfect match. There is no other rational explanation for the sulfur and other residual elements present in the debris, nor for the presence of molten iron at ground zero. The controlled demolition/Thermate scenario is the only explanation which fits the evidence - and this is actual scientific evidence - despite the fact that it has been ignored, quelched and ridiculed.
WTC7 was not even addressed in the FEMA report. A 47 storey building, 100 yards away from the trade towers which was not hit by a plane, collapsed into it's footprint at free-fall speed (6.5 seconds) at 5:20 that afternoon. Fact. The US media barely reported the event. BBC news reported it though, 23 minutes before it happened ! In fact, BBC's New York correspondent stood there talking about the WTC7 collapse on camera while the building still stood mockingly behind her left shoulder in the background (until the link went dead, right before the building ACTUALLY collapsed). Why is this not news??? I just want to bash my head against the wall.
A group of professional pilots submitted a FOIA request for the AA77 FDR (black box) files and got them. They slaved over the data for months, analysed every file string, double and triple checked the results. AA77 didn't, couldn't have, hit the Pentagon - not according to the official black box data files. The plane was on a different course, could not have struck the light poles, and was too high to have hit the Pentagon. ALL of the independent files corraborate the same results. This is official data. Not news. No one cares.
But it must have been bin Laden, because president Bush said so. Because the FBI found the passport of one of the hijackers in the debris of the WTC. Fires so hot that structural steel core columns turned to rubber, yet a paper passport flew out of the pocket of a hijacker and floated to the street, incriminating the "hijackers" (patsies who recieved financing from Pakistan - oh, sorry, that wasn't news either).
Oh, I watched Loose Change. Oh, I read the Popular Mechanics debunk. Truthers are nut-jobs. Please, Loose Change was made by 3 kids - 22 year olds. They woke up a lot of young people, put some questionable info into the water, and, unfortunately and predictably, succeeded in polarizing people into camps - "truther" and non-truther. I have mixed feelings about the film. As for the Popular Mechanics debunk, common. What if (Hearst Corporation owned) Popular Mechanics has an agenda? (Hearst Corp. has a long history of using news to make war, going back to the Spanish/American war.) What if 9/11 was really what these "truthers" have been saying all along, the murder of 3000 American citizens to justify agressive wars in the Middle East and Central Asia - where the US is determined to assert its hegemony in order to control oil exports and crush rogue states which have long rejected western fiat-based Central Banking as per Islamic laws against usury?
I'm not posting this to be divisive, rather, in an attempt to convince those who reject these alternate theories of what happened on 9/11 that many "truthers" are in fact very serious about their research, and are in fact dedicated simply to addressing the issue empirically, to try and understand what this 'war on terror' is really based on. ...But these are just seeds for thought. The real issue is Ron Paul. The Federal Reserve is the head of the beast, as all "truthers" who have done their research understand. We support Ron Paul - we support him and this movement so much that, (with the exception of this long-winded post lol), we are happy to keep our mouths shut about 9/11, to not wear our 9/11 T-shirts to the rally in Washington - if it will increase the chances of finally getting an honest statesman into the White House. That's how deeply we who do not believe the official account of what happened on 9/11 support this movement to take back America from the corrupt characters presently in power (and I don't just mean the Bush administration).
Sound too "kooky"? I think the fact that the PATRIOT Act and the Military Commissions Act of 2006 are law is pretty kooky. I think the idea that the US government allows private bankers to issue the nation's currency at interest is pretty kooky. I think THIS WHOLE DAMN WORLD is pretty kooky.
Ron Paul isn't kooky though - he's a true hero, the kind that only comes around once in a century. I know it, any "truther" worth his salt knows it. That's why we're here.
Give us a break. We are all patriots. Regardless of what we all think about 9/11, we all know one thing - we are losing America, time is running out, we need to take back this country. We are all united behind Ron Paul.
If you support Dr. Paul
You will stop these threads.
Unify
truthers
well said
Common Ground
For the record, I don't think anyone was trying to exclude Truthers from the march, I really feel that the Truthers were being pleaded with to make the voluntary choice to only carry signs proudly touting all of the wonderful principles Dr. Paul stands for that brought together such a diverse group of supporters in the first place. We were asking for the 9/11 conspiracy topic to be put on the back burner for this one particular event (the July 4 march) to show solidary in all the things we agree on in the movement. That's all. Think about how many new supporters would become curious based on seeing this march? And we all know once they start researching the good doctor, 90% will walk away a supporter just by virtue of common sense and becoming awakened.
I agree but
don't associate this movement with RP, its only bad for his image because people this 911 truthers are looneys (which isn't the case but thats the perception).
That said, bear in mind that 911 was a measly 3000 deaths compared to an ongoing war thats killed over 1 Milllion. It makes sense to worry more about terror at home but the lives of americans are no more valuable than anyone else's.
A "measly" 3000 deaths...
which have been used to justify all the million plus others. 9/11 is the foundation for everything that has come from the Bush regime since, including the illegal, unconstitutional legislation which has stripped us of our constitutional rights and the illegal, unconstitutional wars. I suspect you wouldn't call it a "measly" 3000 deaths if one of them had been someone you loved.
according to polling data,
according to polling data, that is not the perception. It may be your perception.
Most people now question the official version of 9/11.
A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for James Madison.
Some people have a difficult time to digest advanced truths
Some people have a difficult time to digest advanced truths. They are probably not ready for it yet. I need to remember this when I am addressing people in a public forum like this. I don’t want to make Dr. Paul look bad by making people think I am a “conspiracy kook”. With that said, you must understand that: 1. The Bible if full of conspiracies, like when the Hebrew midwifes had to hide Moses in a basket in the Nile since the Pharaoh was trying to have the Hebrew children killed. There is a similar story involving Herod trying to get rid of the Lord Jesus. There are many other conspiracy stories in the Bible, so when you say there are no conspiracies, you would basically have to say that the Bible is a myth or a lie. 2. You have seen the MSM steal the election right out from under your collective noses, and conduct a media blackout of Dr. Paul, which continues to this day. You would have to be an ignoramus not to realize that this is a conspiracy.
I believe in conspiracies since I have been a small part of the Liberty/Freedom Movement, apart from Dr. Paul, for many years now and I have seen these things happen over and over.
You would have to be completely unaware of history not to see some sort of pattern with governments using provocations to enter wars. It has been done at least since the time of Julius Caesar and probably before that. I am sorry if I have offended anyone or made anyone look bad.
I guess I was just venting, but there is a grain of truth to the things I have said. I like Dr. Paul, he is a very intelligent and kind man and he would make a great President. A derelict off the street would easily be better than what we have now. I am older so, I have a lot of life experience and I have certain ideas that I know are true. I have my faith in Jesus Christ that I have a right to proclaim. Freedom of religion means I have the right to exercise my religious beliefs. It is not freedom from religion.
I remember RP in a debate
I remember RP in a debate saying something like, "you can't blame them (Truthers), when there is gapes and holes and a lack of transparency in government, it leaves room for questions."
I don't remember exactly.
I agree with your post, There is no reason to group ourselves and discard people based on beliefs, religion, skin color, ethnicity, etc...
That is racism. Plain and simple. The core of racism is fear and misunderstanding. If we hold these way of thought, we can't call ourselves RP supporters. We have to end racist thoughts and believe that as a free society, as long as our beliefs don't infringe pain and suffering and jeopardize the freedoms of another, we are aloud to believe and think what we choose.
Mathew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Why won't you take Dr. Paul's advice?
He said in the last debate that you 9/11 truthers are hurting his movement and that you should be quiet about conspiracy theories.
Yet you guys keep on going with it (as above) and damaging the campaign. If you want to be part of Paul's libertarian revolution then by all means do so. But don't talk about the 9/11 conspiracy theories. They have NOTHING to do with Dr. Paul or his beliefs. This is what Paul has asked of you.
Hey, I agree with you - but also the Dr. didn't rule it out
And neither have I.
"Walls are stronger than the men that defend them."
Ghegis Khan
"Walls are stronger than the men that defend them."
Ghengis Khan
You should never rule
You should never rule anything out. Anyone who suggests otherwise is afraid of something and wants to squelch critical thought. I recoil at anyone who wants to keep information from me, and so should you. (One of my dreams is to read every book that has been banned throughout history.)
That said, Dr. Paul has clearly stated that certain elements are damaging to the campaign. I happen to agree with him, but whether or not you agree, as a supporter you should accept his assessment and not do anything that might harm this movement (which is separate from those other movements, even if they may share some elements).
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Liberty for Dummies
Truthers are brave!
I'll tell you what, for all the bashing, and labeling, and mocking as kooks the truthers have to endure, and yet they still stick to their beliefs and openly question the government... these people are brave!
I've seen the evidence, and I know there was much more to it than the 2 planes hitting the towers, and I reserve my public comments because I don't believe this is something you come at people cold with. But once they've seen the truth about the Fed, and about Iran, and about a whole slew of other things, 9/11 is much easier to approach with them.
But for any of you here who are bashing the truthers claiming they will "make us all look like nuts", you should be so brave. Have you all learned nothing? Are you seriously going to post on this forum that you're concerned that WE all may be painted in a bad light by the media? Are you all delusional? How could you possibly think that we are going to get ANY worthwhile attention from the MSM?
The blimp, and money bombs, etc. All of it was done to get MSM attention. Well, we learned 1 thing from all of this... the MSM isn't going to help us at all. We need to educate people on the ground. Period! So stop worrying about this march, and how you feel certain groups are going to paint us in a bad light. You're dreaming if you really think this march is going to do much of anything to help our cause. No offense to the campaign, but this should have been billed as just another rally. Nothing more. Becuase that's what it is, a rally.
I'm done with this march BS. We've got much more important things to be focusing and working on. If you haven't done it yet, join to become a precinct leader and get the hell out into your neighborhood and start making a real difference for this movement.
If you're here bitching about this march and you're not a registered precinct leader already (or haven't offered your assistance to the leader of your precinct) then shut up! Enough freakin' talk already!
Sorry about the negativity, but this has really gotten ridiculous.
That's All Good - The Oligarchy Does Control Us
Remember, a quality life is only 2 principles:
Go look and see for yourself. (genchi genba)
Forget everything you know. The fifth ring of the Samurai Spirit. The Void.
Personally, I can't say, and I cannot judge, but the statistical probability is near 1 (3 buildings imploded, 2 airplanes hit, never before has a building collapsed from an airplane strike in history and it has happened, round hole with no wing marks in Pentagon, Japanese government did not conduct investigation for lost citizens on aircraft and in towers [trust me, they love to investigate for years and years], central bank oligarchy in Japan, Mount Sinai on Japanese 1,000 yen, secret hand signals (eagles head on back of US 1 dollar), transposed eye and pyramid on Japanese 1,000 yen, eye and pyramid on back of US dollar, hand signal from dollar used by Huckabee, Clinton, McCain, and Obama (since joining CFR October '07), central bank of US secures loan with taxes for the oligarchy, War profiteering, Zionism, Manufacturing Consensus, Censoring, ties to Hitler, murder of Stanley Mayer (make car run on water), CFR coverage in the media, no wing debris outside Pentagon buildings round hole that penetrates through the building even though the plan did a 180 degree turn before it hit (supposedly), fear mongering, brainwashing, lies, cheating, stealing, darkness....
But it is my job to solve problems. I already figured out the US is controlled by oligarchy with a statistical probability of 1, but there is still some small doubt about 9/11 as I have no facts and the 9/11 investigation did not mention the collapse of the building or HOW anyone died, only that they died. I think the JURY is still OUT!
"Walls are stronger than the men that defend them."
Ghengis Khan
"Walls are stronger than the men that defend them."
Ghengis Khan
Do not allow any of them to bring you down
I hate labels, this is what has been used by the people calling the shots to divide us. So what is this "truthers" stuff, we are all on a search for truth or we would not be supporting Ron Paul, we know we are being fed lie after lie about almost everything. On the subject of 9/11 who did it, how I do not know, but I do know that the 'Patriot Act", a war, and our rights being taken away at an alarming speed under the guise of "war on terror' was all waiting in the wings. Some day all of the facts will come out, in the meantime I really do not understand the attacks to peoples views on this site. I have never been to a gathering of Ron Paul supporters so I am being led to believe by some of these comments the so called "truthers" are going to cause so much disruption that it will ruin the rally, I really don't think so, we are grassroots, meaning we are diverse and the one thing we have in common is support for Ron Paul and I have not heard anyone here say they are going to act in any matter to take away from that focus, so why the name calling and hostility?
That
was such a great post.
"we are grassroots, meaning we are diverse and the one thing we have in common is support for Ron Paul..."
Ditto.
Agreed.
What happened or did not happen at 9/11 is a SYMPTOM... not the root of the problem. You cannot treat a symptom... you use it and other symptoms to determine the underlying problem. Our underlying problems are HUGE... so we need to focus on that.
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
Exactly.
Exactly.
That is something we can all agree on; it needs to be our primary focus. All our various concerns will be addressed if we "legalize the Constitution."
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Liberty for Dummies
Not really (to "There is no organized group")
You said "There is no organized group".
Actually, that isn't true, there are groups and meetups, they have meetings, they hold events, organize, communicate, try to act as a group, try to influence others as a group.
http://www.wearechange.org/
http://www.911truth.org/
etc etc etc etc etc
I know, I've been to meetings, as soon as Ron Paul is elected I might just join those groups further and push like hell for the truth. Meanwhile, since Ron Paul espouses the official version, when I'm talking to someone about Ron Paul, I do not talk about my personal theories about 911, unless pointing out to them that Ron Paul would disagree with me on this.
I want to acknowledge this, a great point: "... are you aware of how many Ron Paul supporters there are who have seen through the 9/11 lie and yet stay quiet about it, don't post about it, for the good of the campaign? "
There are
so many "groups" and theories I can't keep track!
You are correct though, there are indeed many groups out there who are trying to solidify the "9/11 truth movement". It's sort of like hearding cats though :p
Anyway, the Ron Paul r3volution is WAY more together and unified than the "truth movement" IMO, I guess that was my point.
Thanx for pointing that out and for the links.
People say, 'where's the evidence?'
The people who say this aren't looking for the evidence. Because it's as easy to find as anything has ever been.
Just my $.02... I'm no demolistion expert, but I am a mechanical engineer who understands the laws of physics. And there is absolutely, positively, 100% no doubt in my mind that building 7 was demolished with explosives. Period! And I've seen the sites that try to debunk this idea, and they aren't believable at all. Not when you have an inherent understanding of physics. Not everyone does, and that's why these sites gain some credibility.
If people still can't see this 1 event (of the many that don't add up from that day) as proof that, at the very least, the story we were told by the 9.11 commision is incorrect, then you're just in denial.
All this exclusion rhetoric
All this exclusion rhetoric is going to do is get people's backs up and make any perceived problem worse. This march needs to be entirely inclusive, not exclusive, to succeed.
Great post
Good stuff.
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
Can we drop this?
Let's focus on the immediate task at hand.
There are lots of believers out there, this is not the place.
It is easy to start a blog...go ahead and do it.
depends on who you mean by "we"
"we are happy to keep our mouths shut about 9/11, to not wear our 9/11 T-shirts to the rally in Washington - if it will increase the chances of finally getting an honest statesman into the White House."
I don't doubt that you will do this. But I bet there are enough bad apples there to make us all look crazy.
I've been saying there needs to be 2 separate words.
Kinda like with Christianity. I have no problem with someone who believes in the bible and Christ. I am an atheist, but someone else's belief, in and of itself, isn't a problem.
What I do have a problem with is the subset of all Christians called "bible thumpers" (for lack of a better word). These people not only believe the same things as above (the bible, Christ, etc) but they have this need to work it into EVERY conversation with me. After I consider their point of view and still come down on the atheist side, they just cannot accept this and keep trying over and over again to the point that I never want to talk to them about ANY topic, because I know where it will lead.
So if "truther" refers only to what someone believes re: 9-11, maybe there should be a new word for people who believe 9-11 was an inside job and also cannot stop trying to convert others.. even in venues where it may not be appropriate or actually counterproductive.
Agree totally
So if "truther" refers only to what someone believes re: 9-11, maybe there should be a new word for people who believe 9-11 was an inside job and also cannot stop trying to convert others.. even in venues where it may not be appropriate or actually counterproductive.
Cudos for the thought!
I'm what some would consider pagan (Native American) so I totally agree with what you are saying... I've a belief system, so do you.. but the difference is I don't try to cram it down your throat. I believe the word you are looking for is ZEALOT.
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
Yes
The ones who are overzealous seem to be the ones that folks have issue with.
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
So let's make a new word
Should "truther" be used in the same way as "Christian"... as in the master group of all people who believe 9-11 was an inside job, regardless of whether they cram or don't cram?
In that case we need a equivalent of "bible thumper"/Zealot-truther... something catchy.
Or we could use "truther" to just be the zealot-type subset and we'd need a new word to refer to all people who believe 9-11 was an inside job, zealot or otherwise.
truther
Truther is really not a nice word, it has a very negative light.
I think we need a nice word for the average person who doesn't let the government cram its ideas down our throat, 9/11 or fed or otherwise.
How bout Libertarian? Naa, they are crazy too! :) HAHa
Serious. anyone have any ideas ;/
I agree that
the word ~Truther~ has negative connotations... let's figure out a better word!
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
Something to think about today
Agreed again.. ;)
And for the record, there has to be something fishy about the 9/11 deal.. I'll go on record with that. However, I'm not going to make it a focal point of every conversation, the first thing I think about in the morning, or what drives me every day. There are HUGE issues we are facing in America today.. that should be a small subset of what is really happening to us as a country.
I think the 9/11 deal should be put in context, is all.
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~