Pastor Can't Vote for RP Because of Libertarian Views on Abortion
I receive a monthly newsletter from a Pastor John Torell, who I think has a good grasp on bibical scripture and he understands well the NWO propaganda. In his latest newsletter is an article regarding the presidential campaigns and how they are rigged, etc.. He even mentions Ron Paul, but says he can't vote for him because of Ron's "Libertarian views on abortion and homosexuality..."
Here's part of the article here:
WHAT QUALIFIES A PERSON TO RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY?
In order to qualify to run for president of the United States, the candidate must be approved in advance by the Corporation. A man or woman cannot suddenly become “Israel friendly,” they must have a proven track record. A candidate must also have been active in the party for which they run, and that means that for many years they have nourished political friendships and collected IOU’s (I owe you). A candidate must have access to millions of dollars, since it will cost more than 100 million dollars to run for president. That means that a candidate must have sponsors, who will expect favors if their candidate is elected.
In order for the American people to be fooled, the Corporation will field a number of candidates from each party, and each candidate is supposed to put on a good “floor show” in order to make the six o’clock news. Juicy gossip and dirty ads will lead the public to believe that there is a real “race” going on here. Just like those fake wrestling matches are rigged, so is every election in the United States.
The Corporation doesn’t mind if a candidate is morally corrupt, been divorced a number of times, or if they are atheists or Christians; all that matters is that they are willing to take orders from the Corporation and implement its plans. After that is done, the candidates have all the freedom to champion their own causes, as long as they are not in conflict with the policies of the Corporation. All the major candidates this year have the approval of the Corporation except Congressman Ron Paul (right). With his grass root successes, the Corporation is using the media to slander and ignore Paul so that the masses of Americans will reject him. As a Christian, I cannot support Paul because of his Libertarian views on abortion and homosexuality which he thinks should be left up to each person, doing whatever they think is best.
Abortion and homosexuality are of no interest to the Corporation in this election so each candidate has the freedom to do what they want in these areas.
The entire article can be read here: http://www.eaec.org/newsletters/2008/vol_2/are_american_elec...
I couldn't let it pass and had to email him. I praised him for his report on the rigged elections, but had to explain that he misunderstood Ron's views on abortion and our freedom to live however we saw fit was protected by our constitution.
I pointed him to this article by Ron concerning Life and Liberty:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/life-and-liberty/
and then this one concerning Federalizing Social Policy:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/85/federalizing-social-p...
In his newsletter, he didn't indicate who he voted for, other than not for Paul or Romney (Mormon). But I think he needs a bit of educating. He's in California, so he voted for what he considers the lesser of evil. I sort of shamed him for voting that way, he ought not follow the propaganda of the media, which he speaks out against in his article, yet is following it.
I think a few emails are in order to help guide him back on the path of the strait and narrow. You'll understand when you read his article, which is quite good, other than the conflicting views regarding RP.
Pro-life Libertarians
www.l4l.org
These libertarians have the right view of the Constitution.
Davy C Rockett
http://liberty-central.blogspot.com
http://screamfreedom.blogspot.com
http://cystic-fibrosis-symptom.com
http://medical-definitions.com
Your Pastor is Wrong
Abortion was not illegal until the 1890s in the US, so I guess every candidate before that was disqualified.
Abortion was common in Biblical times and Jesus Christ did not condemn it. Guess Jesus Christ is not qualified to be the head of the Church.
Maybe your pastor wants to make it a law that all citizens should accept Jesus Christ as their savuor since he has no respect for free will of the individual. God made a mistake, great your pastor is here to correct it.
This country is going to hell because of clueless Christians like your pastor.
Google "Chuck Baldwin" and "clueless Christians" and you should find a good article on this topic.
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"Walls are stronger than the men that defend them."
Ghegis Khan
"Walls are stronger than the men that defend them."
Ghengis Khan
Gibson
Paul being an OBGYN, has stated life begins at conception, so he would definitely not hold the majority libertarian view of abortion.
Paul is a Republican anyway!
Davy C Rockett
http://liberty-central.blogspot.com
http://screamfreedom.blogspot.com
http://cystic-fibrosis-symptom.com
http://medical-definitions.com
Ron Paul is a
Republican not a Libertarian.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
So does that mean it is ok to slaughter every man, woman, child?
So does that mean it is ok to slaughter every man, woman, & child in town after town as was done after the exodus from Egypt just because the bible says so?
The bible says a FINE is the punishment for the loss of a fetus... that doesnt sound like it is that same as MURDER even in the BIBLE...
The Old Testament provides most of the information on God's view of life before birth, since it gives us the law. The law specifically addresses the issue of taking the life of a fetus in the book of Exodus:
"And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life." (Exodus 21:22-23)
Nonsense
this pastor doesn't seem to understand Paul is for life.
Libertarian view would be pro-choice for women, not the child.
For being a pastor i'm surprized he hasn't done his homework.
Davy C Rockett
http://liberty-central.blogspot.com
http://screamfreedom.blogspot.com
http://cystic-fibrosis-symptom.com
http://medical-definitions.com
Under Roe vs. Wade abortion
Under Roe vs. Wade abortion is legal everywhere. Dr. Paul is offering to let each state make their own laws. In essence the pastor is saying "no" to less abortion.
Nifty....
Having a hard time
with believers who say they want small government - yet, they want
a president to pass laws that cater to their specific ministry philosophy...
(and those morals are Biblical) however, if you are going to follow the
Constitution - these decisions would have to be left to the states.
I have spent many years in the past voting based on these family issues -
for a guy I thought was pro-life etc... I see we are in a time now where
these are still important issues - however, there are equal important issues
to the church and the US things like the NAU , the Real ID , Codex ,
this particular stupid unjust war - and everything else related to these...
and on and on... Gary Bauer, James Dobson and others are very good
leaders for family values - yet they seem to just ignore other important issues for the issues directly related to their ministries. To have states
decide wouldn't necessarily mean same sex marriage and abortion
would become legal. Wouldn't it be cause for people to be inolved in
whether or not such laws would pass?
Final thought - taking comfort - God is in control
of the whole deal - and He has the whole thing figured out.
I Agree
Eventually any religious rights will be lost if this present corrupt agenda has its way.
Religious Freedom is a Right given by the Constitution, not the North American Union.
Religious Freedom is one more thing that they'd love to snuff out. I guarantee it.
Some of these people don't see that the Constitution is God-Given.
Just A Thought
What could he possibly see in the rest of the group of candidates is beyond me. He ought to do some soul searching! Ron Paul is the absolute most honest of the bunch.
I have some minor problems with some things that Dr. Paul says, don't you, but giving the abortion argument to the States is not nearly as bad as it sounds. The people of the States can decide their own laws in multiple cases. Isn't this what States want, Freedom! States do want Freedom!
Wasn't there huge arguments during the writing of the Constitution about States Rights.
No....this thought does not hit the nail on the head but I'm not gonna dig into it.
This "Pastor is an idiot and here's why...
He said...:
"As a Christian, I cannot support Paul because of his Libertarian views on abortion and homosexuality which he thinks should be left up to each person, doing whatever they think is best."
He is exposing his Huckabee/CFR/Trilateral agenda. Same as GodTube and Dobson, all CFR! Look what I found on Lew Rockwell's blog...
"On January 22--the 35th anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision--Ron Paul was the only presidential candidate who spoke at the March for Life in Washington DC. Huckabee did speak at a Right to Life rally in Atlanta, but said: "The logic that each of the states can come up with their own definition of how to respect human life is the logic of the Civil War." This is a slap at Ron Paul, who, although he strongly opposes abortion, believes that it should not be the concern of the federal government. Huckabee, like every other current and former presidential candidates (except Ron Paul), thinks that the solution to everything is a federal government solution. Could he explain the concept of federalism without consulting a dictionary? More proof: When asked last year if he would sign a bill to outlaw smoking in public places, Huckabee replied: "I would, certainly would." A Huckabee administration would be a big brother, nanny state--a religious big brother, nanny state.
I can't even debate this it is so stupid...Like George's mother said..."I CAN'T, I CAN'T"
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West
"This used to be a government of checks and balances. Now it's all checks and no balances." (Gracie Allen for President 1940)
Please repost
Please repost this tomorrow after 4:00. That's what time my boyfriend gets home from work, I just know a lot of first shifters that are missing this now would LOVE to see it tomorrow. (never mind, I bookmarked it.)
.
purpose driven liars
purpose driven liars
T.
Hope you read this
Don't feel like one thing you say will convince him...have faith and take your time. Let him know about all of the Christian groups supporting Ron Paul.
http://christiansforronpaul.com/ - Ron Paul does support defining life as beginning at conception - but in the short term, he would turn the issue over to the states: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66jpPCIzza8
I imagine there are other reasons your pastor doesn't "get" Ron Paul...move slowly, but find out what other issues are standing in the way. (like the "war")
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These folks must of got a
These folks must of got a bad batch of stupid pills. Ron Paul's Ideals of constitutional government and states rights will prevent more abortions then trying to hold out for a fascist constitutional amendment that will never come.
Precisely because it will let states decide just like they do on every other crime of violence. Some states will outlaw abortion. Right now no states have that option. What the hell is wrong with these people, they would rather have abortion on demand nationwide rather then at least outlawing it in some states?
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SIMPLE ANSWER
"I cannot support Paul because of his Libertarian views on abortion and homosexuality which he thinks should be left up to each person"
tell him he is wrong...that ron paul does not leave it up to each person but up to each STATE. he has been reading too much huckleberry propaganda.
That's right...
Ron Paul does not say that he would leave it up to each individual, but rather up to the states (because the Constitution says all rights not explicitly granted to the Federal government are reserved for the states or to the people) to decide if abortion would be legal there. I think he would support an Amendment to the Constitution but realizes that it would be a long time for that to come about. The quickest way to get the federal government (including the federal judiciary) out of the picture here, is to send the issue back to the states.
Ultimately, people who want the procedure would either move to or travel to the states that allow it. But remember, even though something might be illegal, it will still happen, and probably with more damage than if it were legal.
all the best,
j
John Bernard
Your pastor needs an education both secular and biblical.
The idea he can only support a Constitutional Amendment suggests that he is a fascist. I can guarantee you Jesus in NOT a fascist. Your pastor has the same problems most pastor in America have they teach apostasy.
Your pastor clearly does not have the qualifications necessary to preach, he is another fraud. Leave his so called church a.s.a.p. I say this because the Bible is very clear about not using government to force religion or beliefs on people.
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Unrealistic
Presidents can only set a standard, they cannot be in control of everyone's morals. This is a huge mistake in the far right Christian movement. It goes both ways.
It is completely unrealistic to think that the president can do something with all these issues. I mean Bush was against abortion and while he put in anti abortion judges they didn't overturn Roe vs. Wade. So I mean what is the deal? Why is it that everyone expects a president to be perfect and just like them on everything?
Answering marhlfld's Actual Question
When I encounter fellow Christians who take issue with Dr. Paul's stands on these issues, I respond...
"Almighty God saw fit to grant humans free will, knowing what we would do with that freedom, and trusting that we would seek Him to follow the path of righteousness and the plan He had in mind for us all along.
"Are we to place ourselves in a higher category of telling people what to do than God Himself does?"
That usually gets their minds and spirits chewing it over.
[NOTE: This is in answer to marhlfld's question and to anyone who knows Christians. To readers who are not Christians, please understand that there are thousands of well-meaning Christians out there who have been soaking in MSM, truly believe that by supporting Huck that they are furthering Christianity, and just need gentle convincing to invite them over to become Ron Paul supporters. An easy nudge goes farther than demeaning differing beliefs. We want to increase our numbers, not alienate potential supporters]
The Christian position
On abortion and homosexuality is the same for someone on the federal level.
It is of no consequence to anyone on the federal level. The UNCHRISTIAN and dishonest position is to attempt to have the federal govt usurp powers it was never meant to have and have some say on marriage and/ or crimes. A Christian view is an honest, constitutional one. And the Constitutional postition is that crimes and punishments (abortion) and marriage are set at the state or even more local level.
This "pastor" should not be a pastor at all. It is one thing to vote privately for the "lesser of two evils" but to defame and declare it is wrong to support the only man that biblically you really could support is extremely sinful.
My pastor actually mentioned Dr Paul from the pulpit just this past Sunday for the very first time. He said something of the idea as he was preaching on God's law and govt that "Every person running for office could not care less about the constitution. Every one except Ron Paul."
I can see a pastor being
swayed by the Focus on the Family position that government is there to prevent chaos, but Christians are called to submit to the law of the land. What kind of chaos ensues when we don't even submit to the Constitution?
Defend Liberty!
Ohhh this is what gets people in trouble.
"Christians are called to submit to the law of the land." Any scripture taken out of context or mis understood because of language translations is a path to Hell. This is the problem with 98% of so called Christians today. They USE scripture to do as they please and control others.
I understand you are making a point but using any scripture by itself is incredibly dangerous.
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Are American Elections Rigged?
Is water wet? Is the sky blue?
Problem is they let
stupid people vote.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
http://youtube.com/watch?...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8JESZiLpBLE
A fox news story from Sep. 2006. I do not watch fox anymore. I gave it up but this is worth a look. It is 3 minutes long.
guess what i saw?
a bear sh#^^ing in the woods.
voter registration forms are included in with yearly renewals...
voter registration forms are included in with yearly renewals...
for food stamps here in Los Angeles!
a friend of mine works in the garment industry (a patternmaker) and remarked that the industry is loaded with illegals who all are rhapsodizing about Hillary and think she's their savior....who will give them free stuff.
btw, today I got an out-of-the-blue call to come work for a high paid West LA immigration attorney I'd worked for 2 years ago. H1-B applicants have to now sign up for Biometrics.
*ugh*
Rally or ride
http://bikeronpaul.com/
joez