Justin Raimondo is Right!
Submitted by laura_cf on Wed, 02/13/2008 - 19:46
Why are we trying to save the Republican Party when we need to save the country?
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No Justin Raimondo is NOT right.
He is stabbing in the back like he always does.
He has completely overlooked what is happening in favor of what he "thinks" is happening.
He, like many, is treating this like a presidential campaign.
Yes, many of the supporters were here for the campaign. And yes, many will drift away. Don't need people like that anyway.
Raimondo wants this movement to go away and he is trying to usher it out the door.
Dr. Paul has been getting pissed on in congress for 10 terms fighting for Raimondo's rights. This guy can't shine Dr. Paul's shoes.
I am amazed at how quickly people write this off. I am impressed at how few actually LISTEN when Dr. Paul addresses us.
My mind is blown that someone could involve themselves in this movement and then walk away.
The United States of America is in a desperate situation. If you have listened to anything Dr. Paul you will know this and realize what has been achieved in the last 11 months. You walk away now? Have you read HR1955?
Raimondo has subtly and politely insulted Dr. Paul and belittled everything that has been achieved by all of us.
Betrayal? What?!
Media coverage?! What!?
Raimondo has twisted it all to split us. Study what he says and how he says it..................shill.
Unify
That's not fair at all
He does not always stab in the back. That's total nonsense. He wrote a very lengthy and thorough defense of Dr. Paul about the New Republic/newsletter issue. You obviously don't go to Antiwar.com or read Raimondo's columns to say he wants this movement to go away - in fact, have you read ONE? He can be a bit capricious sometimes maybe.
I think there are arguments on both sides as to whether a third party run is good or not and basically think that the GOP have to be WIPED OUT for them to come to their senses. They have to be so desperate they will give up empire - THAT'S desperate.
Obama will wipe the floor with McCain - great. I wish he could have wiped the floor with Romney instead - now they will blame it on running a liberal Republican (as though they aren't all liberal now).
"What does conservatism today stand for? It stands for war. It stands for power. It stands for spying, jailing without trial, torture, counterfeiting without limit, and lying from morning to night."
Lew Rockwell
Oh c'mon...
... how much of Justin Raimondo have you ever read? Just because he has a different opinion about what Ron Paul should do doesn't mean he's a secret operative trying to take Dr. Paul down.
Justin Raimondo is one of THE top libertarian commentators and founder/editor of www.antiwar.com .
So what if he has a differing opinion.. doesn't make him evil.
Sheez....
In 92'
In 1992 Ross Perot took 18% of the popular vote via a 3rd party candidacy. Today, we have an unprecedented amount of Independents. The time is right for a break from the "2 party" system. Ron Paul appeals to many people outside of the GOP, and many primaries and caucuses were closed!! In my opinion, we will miss out on Ron Paul's maximum potential, if he does not ultimately run 3rd party.
fs
We're not trying to save it, we are using it as a springboard.
I don't think it's really an issue of us trying to save the Republican Party as it is trying to work within the system in order to change the system. In truth, many of you who believe that a third-party candidate would be viable are just naive. We are using the Republican Party because our entire system is biased against third parties. The media ignores third parties, third parties go through hell just trying to get their candidates on the ballot, and the average American will never bother to research a third party candidate, let alone take them seriously.
I would like to see the two party system fall, and I would love to see a period of realignment and shifting in the existing parties. But it doesn't happen overnight, and though we should work towards the day when the two party system breaks, that day will not be today. I am not being negative, I am simply being a realist.
Our only shot during this election is to use the Republican Party. It also makes sense because the conservative values that Republican Party professes to hold (though no longer practices) are the views that Ron Paul stands for in word and action.
This does not mean that we should not continue to spread the message and show people that issues matter more than party affiliation. But we are too far behind in that area to even entertain the idea that a third party run would be successful.
I will support Ron Paul if he runs third party, and I would even be curious to see if the outcome is greater than I had imagined. But I agree with the doctor when he says it is not a realistic solution. The only way I see him changing his mind is if he loses his seat in the House of Representatives, and I would rather that not happen.
But
The media ignores us now, so what the hell? And I don't see much of a change in the Republican Party anytime soon, so...................
They ignore us, but in many
They ignore us, but in many polls, especially on the internet, Ron Paul remains a selection, even if they do not mention him otherwise. He is invited to some debates. MTV gave him airtime, Facebook and MySpace have paid attention to him. I assure you that no third party candidate gets such luxuries.
And YOU might not see much of a change in the Republican Party anytime soon, but I've been watching change taking place, slowly but surely, all year thanks to Ron Paul and his message.
I don't see any significant
I don't see any significant changes yet. Yes, there have been some comments here and there, but overall they seem to go right back to the same old, same old. The good news is some like minded people are running for offices under the Republican label and that is change. But, today, the other parties have more legitimacy, and people might be more open to them. In this campaign alone, we have seen the discontent with the status quo. And since more young people are more aware today, I think there is a chance they would embrace another party. Btw, I am an oldster, and I have seen what OLD PEOPLE do. They stay with the same old message, but young people don't. Ron Paul will have name recognition by the time he could launch a 3rd party run, and certain media will give him time.
I agree.....
A key quote: "His appeal is to younger, non-Republican independent voters, not to your typical GOP primary goer: he cannot realize his full electoral potential without running as a third-party candidate".
fs
Yeah
I am kinda leaning 3rd party, also. If Mcinsane gets the nomination, and I think he will, then Huck's people will be left with no one to vote for.And Huck, of course, can't run 3rd party.....no one wants him. Ron has been invited. If RP would run 3rd party, he stands a chance of taking the evangelical votes, since he is the only one left that fits their agenda. And Ron takes all the unhappy conservative republican voters, who think Mcinsane is too liberal. Don't think for a moment that Mcinsane can't get the nomination. He has the name recognition for all the clueless voters. These people will not listen to any negativity about him....I know a few in my family....they are this way. And if by chance, this doesn't work, and the democrats win......well....they would anyway with Mcinsane as the only alternative. It's not like we would throw the vote their way. It would happen anyway,imho. So this strategy would be the way to further our message. And who knows.....more people than not might be ready for a change from the stagnant 2 party rule.
Get up and march!
Ron Paul has always said that it is our movement, we need to stop looking for a solution and become the solution. All he is asking for is for us to get up from our couches and computer desks to march for our freedom and the lives of our children.
Justin, it is you who is disappointing. Stop pointing to all the ways it could fail and imagine all the ways it can succeed.
Remember, this is the perfect way for the movement to see their true numbers. If we are not enough than forget about the GOP, Third Party, and the American experiment all together.
We will march and we will march proud, we are not few, we are many. Let us show our true numbers.
Whats the worst that can happen, blisters? Lighten up and lets have some fun!
-Canadian Friend
But betrayed by whom? The GOP or incompetent campaign staff?
And which actually damaged us worse?
Seriously, think about it long and hard.
Most RP Supporters are Fading Away
And with Basic Media, Inc. we'll be able to do an end run around the MSM.
I hate to see all this potential go down the tubes! Is there any way to get Ron to change his mind? Is it too late? I didn't sign up just to make a few changes to a platform no one follows anyway.
What is..
... "Basic Media, Inc."?
Ron knows what he is doing
as he has been at it a few years longer than we have. We have to stick with the republican party and burst it wide open and then have it rise again like a phoenix purified by the fire. And that is what Ron wants to do. Stop second guessing him.
We have a long way to go.
We have a long way to go. Time is on our side, yes it is....
well its not so much save
as trying to steal the brand.
I keep going back and forth on this one. The one main reason to stay with the party is the number of people that vote republican regardless. If you take the party, you take this huge voter base of people who decide at the last minute, plus the republican access to the MSM. Both powerful things. This is a more conservative approach, and one that I am not surprised RP chooses.
On the other hand, who cares if you finally get to drive the car two minutes before it runs out of gas. Justin has a point, the RP revolution had many independants, that may not really care much for tradiational republican values, and will be independants. Given the shrinking nature of the republican base, maybe now is the time to start pushing it towards the abyss with a third party. That's what happened to the Whigs.
Anyway, I need to think about it more.
I'm staying IN the GOP to raise some ruckus NOW...
And after the whole thing IMPLODES this fall (McCain's fall is gonna make the House of Usher look positively *rosy* by comparison -- he's gonna reduce the GOP to a minority party throughout the states both united and individually)... well,
THEN, next year, with all of the McCainiacs either leaving in shame or banished out of revenge, with the FEW remaining conservatives, we can possibly "steal the brand" and remake it in the image that WE want. (I tend to think of it as a ship, on which the captain and officers will have committed suicide, and most of the rest of the crew jumped overboard -- the ship itself, in the form of the "legal" party and all of it's accoutrements, will still be in tact. THEN we can take the proverbial ship's wheel in hand and change the course 180 degrees and take her on her long journey home. Anyone else left aboard can start shoveling coal.)
Heck it's worth a try -- definitely less of a Quixotic venture than this last year has been -- and without Snyder, Moore & Co. to screw it all up, well it just might succeed!