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Death of the GOP?

I was thinking, and maybe someone else posted this before, but maybe the GOP is gonna die after this year if Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination. Maybe this will trigger all the remaining people except the die hard Republicans, to consider a new party, such as the Libertarian or Constitutionalist party. I for one will never become Democrat, and I am about as sick of the GOP as one can get. I am registered as a Republican (so I can vote for Ron Paul in my states primaries) and I don't see much difference in anything the Dems, or Repubs are doing. I know there are differences, but I mean neither one is really about preserving the Constitution, or less government, and sound currency. So, I am thinking maybe it is inevitable for there to be a party to replace the GOP. Maybe in four years, there will be a dominant Constitutionalist, or Libertarian showing. What are your thoughts? In 4 years will it be a Democrat vs. Libertarian showdown? Will the GOP be the minority? In my mind I sure can see it happening......unless of course we lose all our freedoms in that time, (martial law declared) and there will never be another vote for commander in chief. (I will be dead if that happens of course, because I would rather die for my country than bow to a dictator)

I am just curious to your thoughts

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Border Issues

I am currently registered as a Republican (only so I could vote for Ron Paul). I am going to change my party affiliation back to Independent. I want to register Libertarian and fully support them however I find that hard to do when they are for open borders. Border security is a major issue in this country and the Libs will find it hard to garner support while pushing an open border policy.

Please email the libertarian party and ask them to change their platform on boder security. Securing the nation and its borders is in the Constitution!

'Republican' is a Brand, not a Party - but good news....

The 'Republican Party' is not a party, it is a brand name. The CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) markets its policy under two brands, Democrat (donkey logo) & Republican (elephant logo) - depending on the demographic. Best analogy is the NFL has many brands/teams/logos; they all compete, but the NFL runs the show.

Ron Paul simply is not a CFR party-member. (Thank goodness.) Nonetheless, the CFR allows the use its Republican branding, to maintain the guise of inclusion' but its agenda is not affected by a true supporter of the Constitution. Nor will it ever.

Trying to 'restore' the Republican Party is re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. The ship sunk long ago and is ship in name-only. Let's get over it.

It is my opinion the Ron Paul Revolution's best legacy is to form/support a third party. This election is the perfect opportunity to achieve critical mass. No one like either side's nominee. If we got 10% Republican followers, 10% Democrats followers, 100 Libertarians, 100% Constitution Party, 30% independents, (all realistic goals) we would have a real third party. If not victory this time, our party would become 'king-maker' in that we would decide future elections.

Creating a Constitution supporting party is a legacy beyond a Ron Paul nomination, or even presidency.

As for me, The Constitution Party looks to be the best place to regroup. The name is the platform.

IMHO

the GOP, as we know it, is dead. The GOP platform of the last 30-40 years will be put in a corner to collect dust. The GOP, as a political party, will move forward. But what ideas will they have? Revolutionary ones!

A few years from now many of the ideas promoted by Dr. Paul will be mainstream thinking. Not only will the republicans adopt these ideas, as if they were their own, but the democrats as well. Common sense almost always prevails in the end and good political ideas have a way of rising to the surface. As Dr. Paul says, politicians are very good at putting their fingers to the wind and figuring ought what they need to do to get elected. Right now the wind is gently blowing. You can feel it, can't you?

"dead" ideas: foreign entanglements, federal reserve "blank check", military spending, open borders, trade agreements, nanny state

"live" ideas: constitution, congressional power, local control, state's rights, individual freedoms, non-interventionism, limited government, freemarkets, sanctity of life

"open" ideas: healthcare system, social security, corporate regulations, environmental issues

You heard it here first. ;)

h-daddy

There are alot of good ideas and

comments. What I am hearing is frustration with the gop, no hope with 3rd parties, running independent (no party), and starting a new party. We have made some heads turn in the gop, but those that did, rejected what they saw. Five percent of the vote is indicative of a long and tough battle ahead. Not doable by November to get Paul nominated. Running independent would necessitate much energy in just getting on the state ballots. Not realistic. Starting a new party is costly and time consuming. A possible option for the long term. That leaves us with two choices. Go third party or do write-in/absentee ballot. Third party (Libertarian) is already established. We will not have to expend energy on gaining state ballot acess in more than 5 states. They are still building their party but at this point are basically a grassroots organization (currently hold 439 local positions). This is a good foundation for our grassroots to synergise with. Their website also is loaded with current and former elected officials and Libertarian republicans (state and federal) and earmarks those who endorse RP. With all of us working together,canvassing and interneting, our numbers would be much larger than the 15% needed to qualify for inclusion in the debates. We should consider this and draft RP as the LP candidate for president. He can still win his congressional seat as a LP candidate because his constituents in Texas are going to vote for RP the man, not RP the republican.

God will work with you but not for you - Walter Russell

"Be wary of those who know the truth. Align yourself with those who are questing for the truth." L. Gardner

I will stay in the GOP

and attempt to make it change to our principles. I think this is the best way to reach our goals and allows us to educate all the new voters coming into the ranks. It can be hard to tolerate the neo-cons still around though so I can understand those who wish to migrate to other parties. I think it matters less what party that you belong to than that we all stay true to the Revolution and its principles. I'll vote for anyone, of any party, that will hold to our principles. On this we should be uncompromising and not get involved in ignoring policies for politics and partisanship.

Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both

Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both

My thoughts...

The POTUSA is the Commander-in-Chief of the military; NOT The People. It sounds like a dumb comment, but if you think about it for a minute you'll get the meaning and the importance of knowing that.

If you listened to the words from Ron Paul in his last video to his grassroots you'll know that leaving the Republican Party will get us nowhere, and will only serve to allow the GOP to continue down the path it is headed.

If you missed it, catch it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryMliyeIDp4

The Libertarian Party (LP) has been around since 1971, and in that time has made no significant headway. That is not because the LP lacks quality, but because the Republicans and Democrats work together to prevent third parties from being viable.

We can make all the difference if we stay in the GOP!

You want 3rd Parties to have a chance? Then become active in the GOP to change it into a party that accepts third party challenges "in the spirit of debate." That will get 3rd parties air time.

You want a real chance to have a Constitutionally-bound party? Become active in the GOP and reform it to reflect the values of the true republican platform, which will allow the CP and LP to join the new, and true, Republican Party that can rival even the most established Democratic challenge.

Remember, the Republican Party came about only because they originally wanted to preserve the American Republic. Democrats emerged because they opposed the Republic's Constitution and wanted the US to be more like Rome (a Democracy), where the majority ruled over the minority. That should be the real "issue" now. Do you want to be free, or do you want a group to rule over the minority? Today, everyone wants to be free.

Leaving the Republican Party jeopardizes everything we've accomplished up to this point. Why would anyone want to dilute our resolve by joining a party that hasn't accomplished as much as we have in such a short time?

The GOP fears the Ron Paul Revolution. They fear us only because we are a part of them. They don't fear the Libertarian Party. They don't fear the Constitution Party. They fear us because we are them. They have recently said the Ron Paul Revolution has forever changed the GOP. We've only started!

"Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer."

"Know thy enemy."

Joining the LP or CP is admitting defeat. Actually it's allowing defeat, because WE would have chosen to be divided and conquered by the very system we oppose. That is not the smart way to do this business!

Our business is that of saving the world and it is not a task to take lightly, nor should we be blown into the wind to land in the hands of parties that are not as strong as the strongest of parties we seek to reform, and have already begun to do so with great accomplishment.

The Coming McCain Disaster in November...

will be a blessing for those who make up the Libertarian/Paleo-conservative wing of the party....Maybe for once,the GOP will understand that it will have to nominate people from that wing of the party to win...no more Big Government,Big War Republicans....I plan on voting either Libertarian or Constitution Party this November and I am urging all to do likewise!

Ron Paul'08

Then you are a sale-out!

You should write-in Ron Paul on the ballot.

write in vote not on the

write in vote not on the ballot in my state

Formerly rprevolutionist

That's what I'm doing!

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
- Plato

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors."
- Plato

It seems the GOP top brass doesn't care

I went to my GOP mass precinct meeting today, and I spoke at length with the chairman of my congressional district (the turnout was pathetic). He said "we are a mess." At the local level, GOP veterans recognize the party is in total chaos and that the normally faithful have become completely apathetic. They also seem confused, because they have always thought it best to stand together as a party no matter who the candidate, but now they see that "unifying" is actually tearing the party apart because McCain is just so bad. They openly welcomed us younger (obviously Ron Paul) types, because they were just so desperate for support. But what worries me the most is that, at the top, the GOP clearly does not care that it is bringing about its own death. I told our chairman that I was hanging on to the Republican party by a thread and that, if they didn't take a stand, I would move my support to the Constitution party, and that clearly concerned him. But all I can figure is that the top-level GOP leadership is actually trying to either kill the party or move the whole spectrum to the left. The GOP has one more year with me, and then I will have no choice but to move my support to the Constitution party.

No one wants to die...

that includes the Republican Party. They... we... ARE in a mess. The heads of the GOP don't know what to make of this, so they are inclined to give up this year, regroup in the next four years and give it another go in 2012, when they will fail miserably again.

They will regret their lack of desire to embrace their original platform.

They only seem careless because they are clueless. They seem to be ready to admit defeat only because they have forgotten our platform... thus, we've lost support.

In turn, they feel the only way to beat a Democrat is to glorify the most democrat of the Republicans: John McCain. They think McCain can steal votes from the Democratic party. What they fail to realize is they are actually losing most of their own Republican base by doing that.

Hence, "Republicans for Obama."

If the GOP actually endorsed a real conservative like Ron Paul, their (our) support base would triple instantly.

Unfortunately, the GOP is used to being able to endorse a candidate to "rally the troops" to support him. After Bushes 41 and 43, the luxury of a meaningful endorsement is no longer an option. The GOP hasn't learned this, though, as they are a good 8 years behind the mindset of Americans, only because they choose to be separated from their constituents; they would rather make decisions FOR them, rather than make decision on their behalf.

For example, recall Bush 43's recent chastisement of Congress for bowing to public outcry.

The GOP is going to lose this election. It is not Ron Paul's fault. It is not our fault. It is the GOP's fault. In 8 years, they will start to think what WE are thinking now.

I do not believe going to the CP will help anything. It should be very evident that the GOP needs not only reform, but fresh blood to revive its thinking skills and bring into alignment its view with the view of The People.

That is sad

It is sad to see the Republican party support someone like McCain who they know will hurt the party as a whole. I wonder if the GOP even had a say in this, if maybe something, or someone of a higher source made them do this for some reason. I wonder if maybe the GOP is thinking that if they were more left, then they would get more following? If so, then that backfired horribly on them?

I think I am gonna go back to the Constitutionalist party myself, that is if Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination......which I still fight, and have hope for.

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)

Maybe no party at all.

What are the pros and cons of organizing as a political party?

Maybe infiltrating the political system as independents, republicans and democrats is the way to go. Paulites of all persuasions!

The basic problem with the "revolution" right now is that it is attempting to begin at the top rather than at the bottom. If this tactic fails then a new strategy of asserting ourselves locally may be the way to go. Every political corner will have a Paulite lurking about.

A while back, Angus King was elected as governor of Maine as an independent. No party affiliation whatsoever. He got things done, the state functioned and it could easily happen again.

h-daddy

political parties do not necessarily

last forever. Kevin Phillips described the republicans as having become America's first theocratic political party and I don't think he is far off. The repubs are now terminally dominated by a financial elite who gain electoral power by bagging religious folks, whether they be Christians or "conservative" Reagan hero worshipers.

I think its important to recognize that it is the REPUBLICANS who offer Ron Paul only 5% of their votes. The party is gonna die without nominating Ron Paul? The party pisses on Ron Paul.

The republican party will survive, but I think in time it will be recognized for what it has become and the youth will turn away, as they are turning to Ron Paul today. Establishing a new party will be difficult but not impossible, but I think within 8-12 years the time will likely be ripe for a renaissance of either major party or a charismatic "independent" leader of some sort...god forbid.

New third party

It's my opinion that the GOP is dead and we should just let it go. Unfortunately, the LP has never been serious about winning elections, and the CP is never going to gain broad support due to the religious language in its platform; so I don't think either of them will do as an alternative. Thus it's my opinion that we need a new, fresh start. We're already operating like a third party within the GOP as it is.

Check out the following article regarding how a new third party might be formed:

***

Time to Go: the Case for a New Third Party

“Can two walk together, except they be agreed?” – Amos 3:3

With Super Tuesday behind us, and John McCain’s straight-razor express belching smoke with a new vigor, I think it’s time that we conservatives and libertarians were honest with ourselves: the Republican Party can no longer even nominally call itself the home of limited government ideals.

It’s dead, Jim. Stick a tag on its toe and wheel it down to the morgue. And given the way it treated Ron Paul, his ideals and his supporters, I say “Good riddance!”

For awhile, many of us thought that it might be revived. There was hopeful talk among conservatives and libertarians to the effect that, “The spirit of liberty isn’t totally gone yet in the GOP – we can still bring it back.” The patient was in critical condition but seemed to have a faint heartbeat (brain activity is another matter).

Well, I’m now convinced that the heartbeat we were listening to during all of that time was our own. It’s a situation akin to a doctor hovering over a deceased patient, but with the stethoscope pressed to his own chest, all the while muttering, “He’s still in there. I can save him!” We conservatives and libertarians were the heartbeat of liberty in the GOP all along, and it’s time that we realize this and leave the corpse to rot in peace.

But what options do we have if we leave?

Among existing third parties, the Libertarian and Constitution Parties seem the most congenial for homeless conservatives and libertarians of the Ron Paul persuasion; at least ideologically speaking. In reality, however, the Libertarian Party is sagging under the weight of negative perception baggage, and it never has seemed serious about winning elections; whereas the Constitution Party, for all of its commendable points, will probably never have broad enough appeal to be successful, due to the religious language in its platform (and I say that as a Christian).

Consequently, I think the best path forward for homeless Ron Paul revolutionaries is to form a new third party. Now I’m aware that this is not going to be a welcome idea in many quarters, due to the fact that third parties have become virtually synonymous with political futility and kookery. But Americans are unquestionably looking for alternatives, and I can’t help but wonder if perhaps all of those failed, previous efforts might not teach us something about how to do it right.

Here’s what I have in mind:

Read the rest here

Robert Hawes
rhawes73@gmail.com
http://jeffersonian73.blogspot.com
Author: "One Nation, Indivisible? A Study of Secession and the Constitution"

"You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from [the king's] table that you've missed your God-g

I like this idea

I would be for a new party! By the way, that is a great article of yours, and I will spread the word.

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)

Thanks!

Glad that you're interested. Every little bit helps! The RP Revolution has certainly proven that.

Robert Hawes
rhawes73@gmail.com
http://jeffersonian73.blogspot.com
Author: "One Nation, Indivisible? A Study of Secession and the Constitution"

"You're so concerned with squabbling for the scraps from [the king's] table that you've missed your God-g

Your Welcome

Every little bit does help, without the individual, there would be no majority.

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)

Public self-destruction by the MSM

The MSM has publicly self-destructed, as well.

Suicide of the Republican Party

We have two choice: Take over the Republican Party (unlikely, as the Council on Foreign Relations has invested heavily in its leadership. This would require purging the entire leadership of the National Republican Party), or signing up for either the Constitution or Libertarian party.

The reason we have never been able to make much headway is because there has always been divisiveness in our ranks. Much of this is because everybody wants to interject their pet conspiracy into the program. I am sure that there have been agents provacateur who have purposely created dissention.

To be successful, we need to operate like a military organization. We need to follow the agenda that comes from headquarters. We need to exercise economy of force. An army of two hundred thousand individuals, each determining where they will fight, and which weapons to employ is not much of a threat to a well organized enemy. We need to concentrate our efforts where they can do the most good.

For example, three of the hottest issues in this nation are the undeclared wars, illegal immigration (which includes the North American Union), and the economy (which includes our monetary and our foreign policy). When people get wrapped around the axle on the 911 truth conspiracy, or the chemtrails, or any of the other diversions that our enemies have created, we accomplish two things, neither of which is good. We take ourselves out of the battle, and we alienate potential allies by looking foolish.

We need to expose the enemy where he is most vulnerable. It is the job of our leadership to make that determination. If we all go off in our own direction, nothing will be accomplished.

It is very difficult for people interested in freedom to accept someone elses direction, but unless we do, we can't hope to defeat an enemy who has unlimited money (ours!) to work with, and who has control of the Old Media. We need to expose our enemies agenda, utilizing the new technology of the Internet.

Our enemy means to enslave us, to destroy our nation, and make us a part of a world government. The North American Union, like the European Unions is a step in that direction. It's called "an end run around national sovereignty", and you can read about it in the Council on Foreign Relations magazine, FORIEGN AFFAIRS.

We are losing our freedom. Many Americans have bought into the lie about giving up our freedom for security. The "War on Terrorism" is just as phony as the wars on poverty and drugs. They are just an excuse to increase the power of government, at the expense of our freedom.

Time is short. We need to organize. We need to expose those who would enslave us.

You have a good head on your shoulders

You make solid points, and I cannot argue at all. I just want to know how we can organize all of us together? Would it be best for us to join the Libertarian, or Constitutionalist parties, or fight for the GOP? I mean if we fight for the GOP, and as you say, and I agree, "the Council on Foreign Relations has invested heavily in its leadership." It is gonna be a tough battle. However if we join one of the other two parties we could build on existing parties that are almost free of corruption ( I am sure there has to be some corruption in the other parties). Getting enough people to make one of the other parties a contender may be a tough challenge, so as you say we need to we need to "operate like a military organization." We have to start somewhere, so where do you suggest?

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)

Do they care?

It is fairly obvious that the rise of McCain is not setting well with the base of the party. I, honestly, cannot see a good reason for this ploy except to give the win to the Dems. What I can't figure out is the WHY?

Give us clear vision, that we may know where to stand and what to stand for - because unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything.
~ Peter Marshall, US Senate Chaplain 1947

the two party system is a myth

Hillary Clinton is the next logical choice to continue the Bush/Clinton regime started in 1980 with the election of Ronald Reagan. Winning presidential candidates are decided upon years in advance, and these "elections" are staged to make us believe we actually live in a democracy and have a choice. Sorry if that sounds too much like a conspiracy theory, but it's the only thing that makes enough sense to explain it.

Correction........

We have NEVER lived in a "democracy" at all. And thank goodness, too! We live in a representative Republic (...and to the REPUBLIC, for which it stands...). If we were a democracy then Al Gore would have won in 2000. There would be no Electoral College. In fact, if it WERE a democracy, the vote would be decided upon by the 90% of the people that barely know who the candidates are! Not by those of us that pay attention and make a concerted effort to KNOW what's going on. In a Republic, like ours, the delegates (who ARE people that pay attention) actually decide. And, they can never be decided years in advance. They might WISH it could be, but variables can easily come into play to affect such a thing.

You are 100% correct

A Republic is a three vote system, whereas a Democracy is only a two vote. I myself do not want to live in a democratic country, I am proud of our Republic.

"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)