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Murray Sabrin: What do we really know?
Submitted by patriotfilms on Tue, 02/26/2008 - 09:40
I live in NJ and there is much discussion for and against Murray Sabrin within the Ron Paul revolution. Makes me wonder if he is the real deal or an impostor holding on to Ron Paul's coat tails. I was emailed the following article: http://lastfreevoice.wordpress.com/2008/02/12/murray-sabrin-... Any thoughts? » |
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Do you trust Ron Paul? Ron
Do you trust Ron Paul?
Ron Paul endorsed Sabrin in person. I've seen the video. If you trust Ron Paul I believe his endorsement deserves equal trust as well.
...
Let's remember that Sabrin's
Let's remember that Sabrin's website has probably been around for about a month and the campaign is not well-funded enough to spend tons of resources on the web site and issue statements. It was not until late into Paul's campaign that he was able to hire the staff to write position statement that went up on the website. Anyone who knows Sabrin, KNOWS that he is a consistent libertarian and will do all in his power to reduce the size and scope of the federal government. That he has not written up all his positions and uploaded them onto the website should not be a reason to not support him.
Check out his YouTube...he speaks clearly about the importance of our Bill of Rights.
www.youtube.com/murraysabrin
Sabrin for Senate
www.murraysabrin.com
Sabrin for Senate
www.murraysabrin.com
found a working site for sabrin
That main site doesn’t work, I found this one: http://www.sabrinforsenate.com/default.asp
Is this the official site to support him?
Get With the Game
lets not forget, that it is Murray running for office, not Ron Paul. There is only one Ron Paul. they have different races with different circumstances. also, we learned alot about campaigns during RP's run.
like it or not, there is a system, club, game..that we have to play or we will never gain ground. first...RP has alot more freedom in what he can say, he is a 10 term congressman, he has clout. Murray is trying to break into this club. he cant come out yelling "ban the fed" and "end the war"...not in a Republican primary..perhaps if he makes it to the general, but not now.
i was there in iowa and NH and all i heard from people was "End the War"..."End the Fed"...and a few other fringe topics. I agree 100% that these are issues needing to be addressed, but in a Republican primary you MUST appeal to the base...or...you dont win. if Murray is to run a campaign just like Ron Paul, he will have the same results. we know what that is.
We need to get liberty minded, limited government, free market candidates into office and to do that we have to play thier game. otherwise we do not move forward.
i have met Murray a couple times now, seen him speak and i believe he is a candidate that reflects the principles of a libertarian republican. WE NEED MURRAY IN THE SENATE.
Hey, xntrk1...
I totally agree with your "no compromise" approach to supporting politicians and the belief that this "party adherance" crap is getting us no where. I am interested in hearing your thoughts on Ron Paul NOT running third party to continue this movement. I for one am incredibly disappointed by his insistence that the Republican Party can be saved and is indeed worth it.
He himself says repeatedly that time is of the essence, and if we don't make radical changes to this country SOON, we may not have one worth saving. Incrementalism is a path to nowhere.
As far as Murray Sabrin goes, if he is in any way going to be implicit in supporting McCain he is a wolf in sheeps clothing, or at best a "soft" Ron Paul Republican, with the emphasis on both soft and REPUBLICAN.
Next?
"Luctor et Emergo" - Struggle and Emerge
Libertarians are welcome, but
Fortune Favors the Bold
Why not have libertarian candidates, AND Republicans running for office? Better to build a coalition, no?
Fortune Favors the Bold
Expand, please.
What do you mean, exactly? I totally agree that there should be more than two parties (or is that really one??) with viable efforts/candidates.
I personally like the chances of reforming/streamlining/energizing the Libertarian Party with the Ron Paul movement better than being the ugly stepchild hidden under the stairs in the current Republican Party. "Honey, did you hear something? Under the stairs.....a mouse?" "Oh, that's nothing."
Ron Paul is the percieved leader of this revolution, whether he actually wants to be or not. It would be much more effective if he used his momentum to create "outside party" viability.
I hate to say it, but 6 months from now, America will be talking about Ralph Nader and we will be back to square one...............
"Who is Ron Paul?"
Doesn't exactly have that catchy ring to it after all we have been through, huh?
"Luctor et Emergo" - Struggle and Emerge
I am from Jersey, and supporting Sabrin
Fortune Favors the Bold
He is not my ideal candidate. And he is more of a politician then Paul, by a long shot. However, not all Ron Paul Republicans will have the exact same issues. You have to understand New Jersey. A pure Ron Paul type couldn't win here.
He is, however,
A non-interventionist
Wants to restore Civil Liberties
Wants to kill the FED- This is the big one. Untill we get rid of the central bank, everything else will be like hacking at branches and limbs.
Fortune Favors the Bold
Does he still have ties to
Does he still have ties to Hal Turner?
I live in NJ
AND OUR GOVERNMENT SUCKS!!!!
We have been destroyed by the state level government. Absolutely crushed with corruption. Now we have a Govenor that WON'T cut anything. No. His plan is to raise tolls by 500% and sell our highways. Property taxes are out of control. A decent one bedroom apt. runs for $1000 per month plus utiliites. Car insurance is outta control. Traffic gets worse wevery day. My town is a friggen city now.
I would love to move but I have my family here.
Anyway, I saw Murray speak for the Doc at a Straw Poll. Anything is better then the Dems. They are ruining this state.
Does my burka make my butt look fatwa?
When's the primary anyway?
When's the primary anyway?
_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels
Let me show you nj...
This was a in a recent article. Ya ready?
Corzine set aside $60.9 million to place hundreds of people living in psychiatric hospitals and institutions into community housing, state officials said.
We are going pay to house insane people in our own communities.
Then this is in the delegate selection rules
."..prior to the Tuesday next after the first Monday in February in any year."
NEXT AFTER THE FIRST? Sorry. I do not understand that. Just like I do not understand this state.
Does my burka make my butt look fatwa?
Agreed. this place is choking on its own corruption
Fortune Favors the Bold
Fortune Favors the Bold
Lol
Yeah, but things aren't any better here in NY.
And all those insane people now in your community will be voting, presumably for Corzine. Although I'm sure many will wind up on the subways in NYC.
_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels
Why Did Sabrin Endorse?
Admittedly, I don't know much of anything about this person (except I somehow got on a mailing list of his -- don't know how this happened; was the RP supporter mailing list sold? -- and am now receiving tons of email from his campaign). I've skimmed through the comments below, but haven't seen this question addressed:
Why did Sabrin endorse anyone at this point? Did he have to? Did he, in fact, endorse McCain by name, or did he say he would endorse "the Republican nominee"? Why lay any cards on the table this early if you don't have to? Does publicly supporting McCain help Sabrin in campaigning in his neck of the woods?
My attentions have been more directed toward supporting Paul, so although I've seen the name Sabrin bandied about (and popping up in my email box like so many meerkats), I am not yet educated on him, and feel like I've just walked into the middle of a soap opera's convoluted plot...
He said he'd support McCain
He said he'd support McCain (by name) if he got the nomination. Not the worst thing in the world, but certainly not as principled a response as Ron Paul would make. If I lived in NJ I'd certainly vote for him, but I haven't decided if I'm going to send him any money due to reservations that have also been expressed by others . . . Anyway, yes, the thread has become a soap opera. You ask a valid question, and my opinion is that at this point you're better off investigating him elsewhere.
_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels
McCain by Name...but, Why Endorse At All?
Thanks, xntryk1 and DC. Still...I don't see any reason why Sabrin felt he "needed" to endorse any one individual at this point. Who knows -- Romney may yet dip his toe back into the candidacy waters.
Was there some suspicion Sabrin might endorse, oh, I don't know, Hillama, or maybe even Nader? I would think that a D would support the D nominee, and an R would support the R nominee, without having to overtly state such allegiance.
Ah -- unless it's because Sabrin is being colored as a "Ron Paul" Republican...and since RP said he wouldn't support McCain...ohhhhhhhh...
Still, Sabrin could merely say that he would support the eventual Rep. nominee, without naming names. Keeps the Reps happy; keeps his options open.
: shrug :
yes
that is essentially what he said...its not an endorsement at all like when he actually endorsed Ron Paul. All he is saying is that he will support John McCain if he receives the Republican nomination. Probably a good position to take when in the republican party seaking its nomination.
Technically
Fortune Favors the Bold
According to RNC rules, you are suppossed to support the candidate who gets the nomination. Like i said, Sabrin is a politician, and he wants to win. He doesn't want to get blacklisted by the New Jersey State Party.
Fortune Favors the Bold
I've met and talked to
I've met and talked to Sabrin three times and HE IS THE REAL DEAL! He would be such a wonderful person to have in the Senate.
To me, Sabrin winning this senatorial race would be the ultimate (other than an RP presidential victory) victory for the Ron Paul revolution.
PLEASE DONATE TO HIM!!! HE IS FRIGGIN' AWESOME!!!
SIGN UP NOW for the RON PAUL THANKSGIVING!
Nationwide Grassroots Food Drive!
http://ronpaulthanksgiving.com
Sign up and INVITE ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS. Get your meetup groups involved.
In 2004, Ron Paul was asked on live TV
if he would be endorsing Bush for re-election. Ron's answer was not a quick and decisive "No way!", but rather he said "Oh, I don't know. Maybe if he called me and we could talk about my possible support". He then said he was pretty sure that GWB wouldn't even want Ron Paul's support though.
The point is that not everything is black and white. There are some grey areas.
RP2012!
we know
Ron Paul would have an ally in the Senate.
Holy crap people!
Are we going to nitpick every candidate to the point where he has to adhere to some impossible ideal standard? We might as well pack it in right now. (In fact, I wonder if that isn't the intent of some of the critics in this movement.) If YOU think you're ideologically "purer" than Sabrin then get off your behind and run for office. Maybe I'll vote for YOU or contribute to YOUR campaign.
The fascist globalists have been winning for almost 100 years by using the "divide and conquer" strategy. Don't you see that fighting over emotionally inflammatory but endless "no win" issues like abortion, flag burning, gay marriage, etc. is playing into THEIR hands? THEY would love to see our movement fragmented over issues like that.
******************************
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."
I agree 100%
We need "like minded" individuals in this fight, not "exactly alike" minded. Ron Paul is one of a kind. Rare, and almost impossible to find. We will have variances in our candidates, but the foundation of the constitution and their individual interpretation of the constitution is vital. There is always room for change, open discussions and debates. This is what freedom is. It is the blatant ignorance and CFR motives that we fight, we can not turn this fight in on itself. We will need tolerance.
Look at Kucinich, he is a democrat, but he stands by Ron many times over in congress. Do I agree with him? No, but he is a vital role in our fight.
Mathew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Murray could stop....
....S 1959 if he gets in the Senate.
If I lived in NJ
I would vote for him in an instant.
Quit attacking folks who we need to support.
What, do you want to keep closing the tent down smaller and smaller?
Fools, Sabrin is on our side.
_________________________________
Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
He's the best GOP candidate
He's the best GOP candidate running in NJ, and he has a reasonable chance of winning against an ancient Frank Lautenberg.
I'm going to vote for Sabrin in June, unless he does something stupid.
He's a different breed of libertarian than Ron Paul. This is true. He plays party politics a little better. What he isn't is a Rockefeller Republican, or a neocon, and that is what makes him a great candidate.
----
Registered Republican
Federalist Society Member
REAL Conservative for Ron Paul
Who's Attacking Him?
I have yet to see an "attack" on this thread. We're discussing him. Are we supposed to just blindly follow anyone who wants to tap into the Ron Paul voter pool? Chill out, he's got to prove himself like everyone else.
_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels
xntryk1
That's who.
Shit, the guy is running for a GOP nomination and says he would support McCain over the democrat. I'm not voting for McCain, and think he's an idiot, but Sabrin wouldn't lose my vote for making such a statement probably needed within the political reality of NJ or any state for that matter to get enough votes to win a GOP senate nomination.
It is one thing to do research and think within your own mind, it is another to spout off in a manner that will potentially kill votes and support in a public forum.
One thing I would say many folks lack on DP is a virtue called tact.
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
OK
You will never build a coalition by alienating every last person to the point of you sitting alone in your own room thinking you are the most principled individual on earth.
YOU are playing right into the "masters" hands by not doing what it takes to build a coalition of relatively like-minded people. Attacking Murray Sabrin is DEFINITELY NOT the route to go unless you ARE a complete loon.
One reason the liberty movement has often failed to gain traction is because it is like herding cats. Everyone is inherently more concerned with principle and whatnot. Look, to be successful in regaining control of our own lives, we need to be willing to coalesce with people who may be 90% perfect in our eyes, but who are much better than the 50% and lessers that now inhabit D.C.
BTW, I ain't trying to drag you no where other than the tactical spot of actually achieving some goals. Thinking that using wise tactics is somehow a bad thing is just plain ignorant on your part.
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity