The Bush administration has fully fractured The Christian Right!

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The proof is in the pudding as they say. You have;
1.) Pat Robertson publicly supporting Giuliani
2.) James Dobson publicly supporting Huckabee, and then there's
3.) John Haggie publicly supporting John McCain.

Who knows where the rest of the big names stand on this issue? I have only one thing to say to all of them, maybe they should all GO BACK INTO THEIR PRAYER CLOSETS, and this time humbly ask God who’s His choice for the US Presidency is!

It is obvious they are NOT all hearing from the same God, but who knows which god anyone of them really serves. I’m so disillusioned with the entire Christian Right Movement. Ron Paul was, is and has been the answer to all their prayers, and they have thrown it away.

My only comfort in all of this is that God Almighty is still in control, with or without The Christian Right.

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We got Chuck Baldwin

He is the guy to have not the corp. shills

Mark twain

I thought I would post this short story by Mark twain:

The War Prayer
by Mark Twain

It was a time of great and exalting excitement. The country was up in arms, the war was on, in every breast burned the holy fire of patriotism; the drums were beating, the bands playing, the toy pistols popping, the bunched firecrackers hissing and spluttering; on every hand and far down the receding and fading spread of roofs and balconies a fluttering wilderness of flags flashed in the sun; daily the young volunteers marched down the wide avenue gay and fine in their new uniforms, the proud fathers and mothers and sisters and sweethearts cheering them with voices choked with happy emotion as they swung by; nightly the packed mass meetings listened, panting, to patriot oratory which stirred the deepest deeps of their hearts, and which they interrupted at briefest intervals with cyclones of applause, the tears running down their cheeks the while; in the churches the pastors preached devotion to flag and country, and invoked the God of Battles beseeching His aid in our good cause in outpourings of fervid eloquence which moved every listener. It was indeed a glad and gracious time, and the half dozen rash spirits that ventured to disapprove of the war and cast a doubt upon its righteousness straightway got such a stern and angry warning that for their personal safety's sake they quickly shrank out of sight and offended no more in that way.
Sunday morning came -- next day the battalions would leave for the front; the church was filled; the volunteers were there, their young faces alight with martial dreams -- visions of the stern advance, the gathering momentum, the rushing charge, the flashing sabers, the flight of the foe, the tumult, the enveloping smoke, the fierce pursuit, the surrender! Then home from the war, bronzed heroes, welcomed, adored, submerged in golden seas of glory! With the volunteers sat their dear ones, proud, happy, and envied by the neighbors and friends who had no sons and brothers to send forth to the field of honor, there to win for the flag, or, failing, die the noblest of noble deaths. The service proceeded; a war chapter from the Old Testament was read; the first prayer was said; it was followed by an organ burst that shook the building, and with one impulse the house rose, with glowing eyes and beating hearts, and poured out that tremendous invocation.
*God the all-terrible! Thou who ordainest! Thunder thy clarion and lightning thy sword!*
Then came the "long" prayer. None could remember the like of it for passionate pleading and moving and beautiful language. The burden of its supplication was, that an ever-merciful and benignant Father of us all would watch over our noble young soldiers, and aid, comfort, and encourage them in their patriotic work; bless them, shield them in the day of battle and the hour of peril, bear them in His mighty hand, make them strong and confident, invincible in the bloody onset; help them to crush the foe, grant to them and to their flag and country imperishable honor and glory --
An aged stranger entered and moved with slow and noiseless step up the main aisle, his eyes fixed upon the minister, his long body clothed in a robe that reached to his feet, his head bare, his white hair descending in a frothy cataract to his shoulders, his seamy face unnaturally pale, pale even to ghastliness. With all eyes following him and wondering, he made his silent way; without pausing, he ascended to the preacher's side and stood there waiting. With shut lids the preacher, unconscious of his presence, continued with his moving prayer, and at last finished it with the words, uttered in fervent appeal, "Bless our arms, grant us the victory, O Lord our God, Father and Protector of our land and flag!"

The stranger touched his arm, motioned him to step aside -- which the startled minister did -- and took his place. During some moments he surveyed the spellbound audience with solemn eyes, in which burned an uncanny light; then in a deep voice he said:
"I come from the Throne -- bearing a message from Almighty God!" The words smote the house with a shock; if the stranger perceived it he gave no attention. "He has heard the prayer of His servant your shepherd, and will grant it if such shall be your desire after I, His messenger, shall have explained to you its import -- that is to say, its full import. For it is like unto many of the prayers of men, in that it asks for more than he who utters it is aware of -- except he pause and think.
"God's servant and yours has prayed his prayer. Has he paused and taken thought? Is it one prayer? No, it is two -- one uttered, the other not. Both have reached the ear of Him Who heareth all supplications, the spoken and the unspoken. Ponder this -- keep it in mind. If you would beseech a blessing upon yourself, beware! lest without intent you invoke a curse upon a neighbor at the same time. If you pray for the blessing of rain upon your crop which needs it, by that act you are possibly praying for a curse upon some neighbor's crop which may not need rain and can be injured by it.
"You have heard your servant's prayer -- the uttered part of it. I am commissioned of God to put into words the other part of it -- that part which the pastor -- and also you in your hearts -- fervently prayed silently. And ignorantly and unthinkingly? God grant that it was so! You heard these words: 'Grant us the victory, O Lord our God!' That is sufficient. the *whole* of the uttered prayer is compact into those pregnant words. Elaborations were not necessary. When you have prayed for victory you have prayed for many unmentioned results which follow victory--*must* follow it, cannot help but follow it. Upon the listening spirit of God fell also the unspoken part of the prayer. He commandeth me to put it into words. Listen!
"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle -- be Thou near them! With them -- in spirit -- we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.
(*After a pause.*) "Ye have prayed it; if ye still desire it, speak! The messenger of the Most High waits!"

It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said.

Yes, they have been the Christian Wrong.

Imagine, a religious movement able to see the hand of God in the machinations of the son of George Bush and the grandson of Prescott Bush. God help us all.

These two kingdoms are different

The Bible refers to the principalities of this world. Our power structures are worldly concepts that God allows to exist, but they are not of God.

It could be God's will and to the Glory of His Kingdom that we all live in something like communist China. If someone's a Christian in communist China, you know they aren't just saying that to fit in at the local country club.

Taking over the government has never been a Christian goal. To enforce morality at the point of a gun turns every act of obedience to God into an act of survival and then how can I offer my obedience as worship?

Defend Liberty!

Well

The Christian right is just like all the rest of us. They have bought into the whole global thing and been swayed by the media. All the churches are members of World Council of Churches or whatever WCC stands for. That is basically one world religion going there. That is under the thumb of the same one world order group. It is bigger than the Bush administration that has fractured the Christian right. The Bible clearly says this will happen. If you are disillusioned, read the Bible more closely. It is a very, very difficult subject. I mean look how conservative the neocons sound. It is very hard to know where they stand unless they mention their preferred presidential candidate and the same is true for the Christians. They are basically neocons. Conservatives who have "lost their way." I just thank God for opening my eyes to Dr. Paul.

Other Gods

As troubling as it might be to many so-called "Christians", the churches today are devoid of the true spirit of the Living God. I was led out of the church system many years ago, but I consider myself a true Believer and Follower of the True Christ of God. It is no surprise to me that the so-called "spiritual leaders" are leading many astray with their brand of Christianity. The true believers are those who have been told by the Spirit to "take up the cross and follow me". They are nobodys, nothings, persecuted, reviled, slandered, chastened and afflicted daily, and are left with nothing but our faith and trust in our Heavenly Father. But we know, that if we suffer with HIM, we shall also reign with HIM. And at the present time we are hearing, "Arise and shine, for thy Light has come, and the Glory of the Lord has arisen upon you".

"Nothing is as it appears; everything is smoke and mirrors"

America is over.it is over.

I like Ron Paul 100 percent as an american and as a christian. I am a christian, and I just have to say: Its over. The Christian churches are very watered down, commercialized,materialistic, and they have their own bubble of "music" and its all materialistic and it copies the secular counterparts. I see the churches as institutions of "popularity" contest anymore.....the churches which use to practice what they preach are too few and disappearing rapidly as the younger generations try to act like the secular counterparts(musicians acting as if they are rockstars on stage of church platforms during service)....the writing is on the wall. The christians have chosen to ignore the ideals of being free, they romaticize the idea of dying peacefully,and truthfully the book of revelations says we will be under tyranny. There is no romanticizm to our generations fate.....we are going to face the ugliest dictatorship the world has ever been under.Our country is over,and I am bitter towards everyone who shut their eyes when they had a chance to stand against evil.

"Stop paying lip service to the Constitution,and OBEY IT!"-Ron Paul

What

our country has had tough times before..no way is it "over"..and it's no dictatorship or sites like this wouldn't exist....churches don't bother me because I don't believe in god

Karl Rove is the one who decieved

them into believing the President can use policy to direct Christian principles, such as pushing a marriage amendment, nominating Supreme Court judges who are against Roe v Wade, and faith based initiatives. Of course it was only window dressing, because Rove knew it was impossible to pass a marriage amendment, but when 9/11 happened, Rove told them the Muslims desired to take over and eliminate Christianity, so we must stop this action. Then when things were getting bloody in the war, and Christian leaders started to speak out. Rove reminded them, we are going to nominate Christian Supreme Court judges, to end abortion, and fight the jihad. All the while they had the leaders such as Hagee and Parsley conecting Bible prophecies with ancient Muslim jihad, Sadaam (Nebakanezer) and the next war, with Iran. This deception has brainwashed the evangelicals into supporting war against Muslim jihad, and all the while, these are getting richer, building lavish mega-churches, and now believing the federal govenment will do their bidding for them. We have got to start waking these people up by using New Testement verses, where Christ was steering away from Old Testement aggressions.

Yes

And I think its well worth pointing out that he got the judges and Roe v Wade stands. Despite the court balance and the ending administration, I suggest that that particular ruling is likely to stand unchallenged for longer than a christian might expect. It makes for a great repub campaign issue that is gonna be hard to let go.

Christians, ask yourselves...

i'm a Christian, and i would like everyone to answer the following questions...

1- Who would Jesus bomb just because they will not do what we want them to?

2- What sovereign country would Jesus invade that has not attacked the united States of America if Jesus Christ was a united States citizen?

3- Doesn't the Bible teach that "vengeance is mine saith the LORD"...so why would a "Christian" President such as GWB claims to be...take vengeance out on Saddam Hussain?

3-Would Jesus attack a sovereign nation for control of oil?

4-Where in the Bible does it say that it is alright to cheat and steal by altering weights and measures (this includes money)?

5-Read this parable of Jesus Chris. Ask yourselves where do the Muslims and Islamics fit in to this parable?

Luke 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Luke 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
Luke 10:29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
Luke 10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
Luke 10:31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
Luke 10:32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
Luke 10:33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
Luke 10:34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
Luke 10:35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Luke 10:36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
Luke 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

ask yourselves this question too...is George W Bush and the department of homeland security acting in the manner of the parable above when they are removing our God given Constitutional rights? example...is it right that your wife gets frisked in an airport for "security" reasons and treated like a criminal with no human dignity just for having a pair of hair trimming scissors? Ask yourselves...is it "Christian" for the government to treat people with no Dignity so that the police and federal agencies, like the ATF, HOMELAND SECURITY, County,State, and Local Hosing Code officers can break the IV (4th) amendment whenever they feel like it,

Do you remember the days when police officers needed to have "probable cause" to arrest you, search your home or pull you over in your car? Then why are road block "Safety Checkpoints" legal(other than the border ones)???

Can our government bodies ever pass and enforce enough "Safety laws", ie.,seatbelt laws to smoking bans...to ever truly make us safe?

Do we not trust in God anymore for our safety?

Who will keep us safe from our government?

Why are not lawsuits enough in safety cases?

Why has our government dethroned and taken God's place?

Why has the government taken over our schools?

Why has the government taken God, and Christian things of any sort out of our schools when the parents who are paying for their schools demand it to be taught?

You do know that most schools were first held in local Churches until the government took them over?

Why does the government violate the 1st amendment in establishing an official public religion, called evolution (yes it is a religion...for you have to believe it...for it has never been proven...no one has ever seen a dog produce an offspring other than a dog), and force it's teaching in our public schools?

How come Christians don't live by Biblical convictions anymore and stand up for what is right instead of blindly accepting everything governments and society throw at us?

please ask yourselves these things ...you will see that there are so many things amiss these days that we have to stand up for the Constitution and what is right. For our Constitutional liberties and it's rule of law came from the wisdom found in the Bible, God's Holy Word.

"if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything..."

2Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Ive said it once,ill say this again

Jesus would have made a whip and whipped out the thieves in the white house,and the congress,and the bankers(federal reserve) . Jesus would never consent to bombing someone just to make them follow his teachings,its ludacris.

"Stop paying lip service to the Constitution,and OBEY IT!"-Ron Paul

yes

Pope John Paul came out and said the Iraq War was wrong. He is not some lefty pantywaist. He said it because it's true.

This is perhaps the most disappointing thing about the Bush administration to me - not so much what he is doing (they all want the maximum amount of power they can get) - it's how so many Christians have been supporting this man and still support him and these appalling Christians United for Israel types, putting on the yarmulka and dancing round like a bunch of nutjobs, frankly. Go watch Tom Delay interviewed at this event on Youtube - he gave a speech there. It truly BOGGLES THE MIND.

And now they will vote for McInvader, as someone here called him.

It's not good enough to kill gazillions of people for an idea - JUST WAR THEORY is very old - two seconds worth of thought and people would see how evil the whole thing is.

I am quite pro-Christian for a non-believer but this really disgusts me A LOT.

"What does conservatism today stand for? It stands for war. It stands for power. It stands for spying, jailing without trial, torture, counterfeiting without limit, and lying from morning to night."

Lew Rockwell

there is a difference...

it is one thing to attack a sovereign country but quite another to defend yourself. Israel does have the right to defend itself. i'm not saying mistakes have not been made by Israel, for they have. but when a gazillion arabs want you dead and they are less than 35 miles from your door you tend to react quickly for your own self preservation.

remember that Yasser Arafat was not even born in Palaestine but was a Egyptian with a sole purpose of ending Israel. As are most Palestinians. what do Egyptians, Syrians,& Jordanians have to do with Palestine?

2Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

?

Sorry but I am not quite sure what you are talking about here. You are talking about something else I think. I mentioned CUFI as they are Christians who seem to think we should take Israel's side in a fight that is not ours. The Pope was criticizing the Iraq invasion, not Israel. I am saying these churches don't seem to associate 'thou shalt not murder' to what is happening or to know anything about Christian just war theory.

They can think what they want about Israel and dress up how they choose and put their own money and blood into it but it is not okay that they have so much influence over people like Delay and Lieberman and plenty of others. And it's not okay that they think they can push the US government to interfere/take sides. No way.

Maybe Israel is entirely in the right. Maybe it is in peril. I don't know. I don't need to know as I am not an Israeli. I am not saying 'I don't care' just that it is not my business. And Christians who push this are going to be more and more despised and rightfully so imo.

"What does conservatism today stand for? It stands for war. It stands for power. It stands for spying, jailing without trial, torture, counterfeiting without limit, and lying from morning to night."

Lew Rockwell

At the end of the church service about two months ago

the minister asked if anyone had any announcements. No one said anything for a few moments so a young man stood up and said "I have an announcement that is separate and apart from the church but it is important information for Christians to understand. Since we're all free to leave now you may do so and I'll share with those who stay."
The congregation all quietly waited.
The young man continued: "There is a person running for President that upholds Christian ideals and only tells the truth. From my observation this person is the only Christian running, and though he was baptized when he was 14, he also understands the separation of church and state. If you wish to speak with me privately I'll give you information about him later."
The congregation then went into the usual chatter as they slowly edged to the exits. The young man waited alone for about three minutes before he was overwhelmed by the response of half the congregation. He passed out slim jims and answered questions. No one was offended and a door had been opened to let people know that there is one good man still standing for all Americans.

Did you just make that up????

Like asking the banker in another post about "rules and policies"? Or maybe it was a dream that you had. Or maybe is was at Huckabee's church-or maybe you're talking about Huckabee? Either way, it's still unbelieveable.

The young man was me.

As a Christian I never lie or swear. Please extend the same courtesy to Ron Paul, myself, and all other children of God.

Sorta the same...

I did something similar via e-mail (someone sent a church e-mail encouraging the congregation to watch Huckabee preach at a local church adding that they would be greatly blessed). I replied to "ALL" that they should reconsider Huckabee and his ethics problems as well as his CFR affiliations (One World Government) and instead consider Ron Paul. I included his statement of faith and resume' links.

One guy said "Thanks, it really helped him decide."

Better than nothing, I guess.

“The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.” Ron Paul - The Revolution

I tell all my Christian friends

to check Huckabee's record in Arkansas out .
www.judicialwatch.org

Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips

But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers

There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer

Having been "part of" the christian right

I realized in the early to mid 90s just how brainwashed, snookered, most of them are. There are a few free thinking religious rightists, but most are of the Pat Robertson "whatever the GOP does is right" mindset. I used to be right in the thick of the religious right for a number of years, heavily involved with them, and so many times they completely ignored obvious truths in favor of following the party line.

RP2012!

The Bush adminstration...

has fully fractured the Republican Party, and the USA.

True

Who knew-I guess some people did, but I didn't-that George Bush and daddy are total elitists who care nothing at all about the people in the US or the US either, for that matter. Impeachment is the least of it.

Chuck

Chuck baldwin!

It's the people that have fractured themselves from God

How could the Christian Right, made up of millions of Americans, support borrowing trillions from China, banking in fiat money, enslaving inflation, IRS taxes on earnings and capital gains..., consumption? They also sacrifice their sons and daughters in foreign wars, statist education systems, and on and on. The Christian Right have been so wrong. God have mercy. Christ have mercy.

I added a Proud Supporter of Ron Paul button to my homeschool "McGuffey" site!
http://www.mcguffeysonlinetutor.com/public/main.cfm

May God have mercy

The church doesn't want to hear from a true prophet - they want a king. (the people
of God rejected Samuel too, and got stuck with Saul , one of their worst kings)

in answer to Christopher X's questions: 1) no 2)Only God 3)because we have lost respect for God's Law we are stuck with 10,000 of man's laws 4) It hasn't, it just seems that way, God is Still on the throne 5) Because Christian parents abdicated their God given responsibility to the state 6) Because this is no longer a Christian nation at least not governmentally, it has been taken over by radical secularists. 7) yes
*8) Yes, I knew that , you can't even teach Intelligent Design (don't even try to mention God's creation.!) 9) Christians are not taking the time to study to show themselves approved,so they don't know what a Christian mindset is, and there are those who don't want to know and are not real Christians in the Churches as well.

Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips

But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers

There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer

The so called 'christian'

The so called 'christian' right has abandoned the word of God, just as our nation has abandoned the word of our Constitution.

Trust in God, but tie your camel tight.

"Socialism needs two legs on which to stand; a right and a left. While appearing to be in complete opposition to one another,they both march in the same direction." - Paul Proctor

ah,

yup...

“The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.” Ron Paul - The Revolution