Alert: Due Diligence now labeled as bad
Submitted by Hard Work on Wed, 03/05/2008 - 12:33Our society is really in trouble when people who do their due diligence in terms of being educated about what is going on are consistently called "kooks" and basically everybody goes along with it.
Educating yourself and questioning government is absolutely CRITICAL to the success of any society.
Our society is in DANGER because critical thinking is being labeled as "fringe".
Let's instead all herd together and accept everything that is told to us officially without question. That should lead us in the right direction. (sarcasm)
Critical thinking is the life blood of individual and group success. Many Americans have been led to reject critical thinking for whatever reason. For the sake of our country's future as well as the future of you and your family, do not join forces with those who ignorantly attack critical thinking.
Thanks.
Whenever dictators come into
Whenever dictators come into power, their political enemies and intellectuals are the first to burn on the woodpile. Nothing new to see here.
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"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
Seperating conspiracy theory from conspiracy fact
Fortune Favors the Bold
I realize this post is going to get flamed. However, I felt the need to adress this issue. I consider myself an intelligent, discerning, informed person, not a "true believer" in any sense of the world.
The New World Order is a real thing. It is not the illuminati, or satan worshipers, or shape shifting aliens.
It is simply bankers, corporate leaders, and politicians. They believe in a global economic and political structure, lead by "enlightened" elites, whose decisions are made privately and whose authority supercedes that of "auto-determination." Even if their intentions are noble, we have learned from history that centralized economic planning doesn't work, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The Constitution is a document that understands history. There are checks and balances to prevent any one group from acquiring too much power. By ceding representative authority and checks and balances to groups of self-appointed elites, we are sure to lose freedom.
The new world order isn't really new. The rule of the aristocratic elite is very old. As Ron Paul says, liberty is new. And it requires constant vigilance. We have allowed our nation to become pacified. Our healthy skepticism of those in power has been replaced by cynicism and snarkiness. The true danger of the New, or really, Old World Order, is that now the level of technology will extend control to every aspect of every individual's life. With a one world government, be it official, or simply unannounced but still for all intents and purposes the true authority, there is no competition, either economically or politically. Even with technology, such a system is not flexible enough to the chaotic undulations of nature. Nevertheless, it can cause much suffering and death.
Many 'conspiracy theorists" mix up fact and fiction. They assume all conspiracies to be true, and don't question their own assumptions with the same rigor that they question authority. They, like the media manipulated masses, choose what to believe before the facts are presented. That said, it is ultimately irrelevant what these individuals believe as long as they support the principles and the fight we are working towards. An effort to purge conspiracy theorists will only create division and diversion, as we need unity to fight against our common enemy. Rather then attack conspiracy theorists, those of us who are of a more rational mind state should simply make our voices heard too, so people not converted to our cause can see there is a diversity of viewpoints in our movement. We can't win by becoming a church.
Perhaps some people are turned off by the conspiracy theorists. I don't believe catering to the cowardly masses will serve our interest. It is our courage and conviction that makes us strong.
I will repost this in a seperate forum i think.
Fortune Favors the Bold
galt please heed the warning they really are the devils we say
Listen to Myron Fagan audio files recorded in the 60's!
He worked for a sitting pres and refused the dirtbag pres do the math you research this guy you will see how i could say such a thing unless ALL
my heart was in it i would not speculate such an obsurd accusation unless i was 99% sure the guy was a JEWISH playright and wrote alot about the new world order before ron paul was still a lad my friend
the most informative peice of information i have ever read and is what taught me about the bankers You are 99% saying what he said but i beg of you a fellow freedom fighter to heed the warning this really is spiritual battle and if you think he is booty then please tell me why because i have been looking into his allegations for over 5 years and it is my foundation of knowledge because of how many truths ring true I honestly think this is all of the info in 1 package ever and would even venture to say RP has probably heard these recording to his philosophy! this guy is as credible as RP to me please listen to it and tell me what you think.it all lines up!
ps he called the war against the musliums 50 plus years ago???????
My first exposure to the "Illuminati"
When I first heard people talking about the CFR and the theories regarding who and what that group is, I decided to do some research. The 1st article I came across was Myron Fagan's speech (transcript) "The Illuminati and The Council on Foreign Relations". On first read, I was completely unconvinced. It sounded to me like he was nothing more than a racist nut. However, after a few months of further research, talking with people who believe, and many hours of soul searching, I re-read it. The 2nd time through it all made sense.
Now, I'm not going to claim that his information is 100% accurate, but I think the jist of what he's saying is correct, albeit he may have some minor details wrong.
And like you said onelove, he DID predict that America would be engaged in a full blown war with the Muslims in the Middle East. It's possible that he could have forseen these circumstances, but even still, it's pretty impressive.
There is something called the black illuminati
Fortune Favors the Bold
who may still be around (italian aristocrats who held the hard assets of the catholic church to help conceal their total wealth), but that's really not important in the context of this, and i think the word "ILLUMINATI" has too many kooky connotations for use in debate
just my opinion
Fortune Favors the Bold
I agree, somewhat
Fortune Favors the Bold
it is certainly spiritual in the sense that it effects the meaning of our lives as free humans. If people believe that their individual scriptures have foretold of things, I have no problem with that. We don't have to agree on all the details to understand the problem.
Fortune Favors the Bold
myron fagan ?
so you are not going to give it a peak???
How does one manage to
How does one manage to misspell "peek"?
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"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
i'll check it out
Fortune Favors the Bold
Fortune Favors the Bold
Well Written, thank you
I see a lot here that I can agree with. And I'd like to point out that something akin to this line of thought was behind the Libertarian movement of the 70's as well. Listen to Robert LeFever's lectures on liberty from the Mises Institute audio collection. One of the things motivating him to spread the libertarian philosophy was a horror at vastly greater destructive power of modern weapons of war. But the atomic bomb is now a 50 year old technology. The ubiquity of computers and surveillance today simply cannot be ignored, we must at least be aware of the possible results of that kind of power if a free society is to survive. We will not be returning to the 19th century.
I also think its worth considering what extent conspiracies play, and to what extent the malevolent results of modern institutions is more a result of the systemic logic of those institutions. I'm sorry if that's not clear, but I mean that institutions like global banking, credit card companies, corporations in general and governments should be thought about in terms of economics, and other such systems of feedback. They may not be so much consciously directed as simply responding to incentives. I think this is worth a lot of deep thinking. On the other hand I'm individual enough not to be scared by the bugaboo word conspiracy. As Edward Griffin says, it is just two or more people making plans together, and you can't write history, understand anti-trust law or read a court docket on an average day without referring to the fact that people frequently do conspire together.
Yes, I agree
This is the "conspiracy of Ideas" that Dr. Paul talks about. many people believe that a centrally organized world would be better. Some for selfish reasons, some because they think like monopolists.
The world will get more linked because of technology, the question is whether it will recognize individual liberty, sovereignty, and free markets, free religion, control of our own bodies, private property, etc. or will it be more centrally controled. Obviously, I favor a Libertarian world.
I favor a REPUBLIC
you know like the constitution anarkists or what ever you are speaking of are not good immegration women right to abortion?we were founded to be free not a gov mandated abortion abomination corperation of the ameraz!
Ron Paul platform or nothing the libertainrian is the real reason people shun RP not the truthers what question came up every day???waiting???
1 are you going to run 3rd party not are you a truther even though that was probably number 2 though(you ran as a libertiarian and the libertairians in AK would not even change their party affiliation to support the only sympathetic ear with the only real shot of the nomination was because of immegration and abortion f them guys they did nothing for us i do nothing for them baby killer allowers!good luck finding a job if you make it passed the vacuum DR. ! I want what RP wants a republic and the gop is going to be our vehicle to get it restored not some lawless maradures some of us like cops and just laws sorry im not such a rebel but i have seen to many people think it is justified to kill people over 1 dollar dice games and the evil here is not the law but the lack of education
so from me living in the asshole of life TRENTON NJ shows me this is not speculation but fact homeboy! t town is the root of corruption and i was raised in the seat of the bull so I have ago history of paying attention to how devils move!
Wow
Best post I have ever seen you make Ironman. How about you roll with this instead of continuously bringing up all the other stuff.
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
So what makes you think
That educating yourself with incorrect information is due dilligence.
It turns out that the people that believe the government is out to get them are infact the most closed minded.
let's look at some examples
WTC 7 - they cannot explain how someone wired the building, cannot provide evidence about who wired the building, or really any credible evidence (complete with chain of custody) that an explosion occured. All they have is "it looked to me like one of them demolitions", and they then ignore any evidence to the contrary.
911 was an inside job - they have no evidence of an inside job, all they have is - "not everything was explained" which may be true, but is not evidence of anything.
Chemtrails - no evidence -
Moon landing fake - look the flag is blowing in the wind ( of course nothing else ever looks like there is wind), and any explanations are ignored, or just added as being part of the coverup.
Each one of these stories are filled with factual and logical errors that you are pretending is due diligence. its not, its stupidity.
Those are all different ideas
Scanner313, I can agree with you that each of your examples is an instance of a poor theory that no-one has any reason to believe, but I can still think that your post constitutes a poor argument.
The problem is, those are all different ideas, and none of them are necessarily related to each other, nor are they endorsed by Ron Paul.
The larger point, is that you seem to be, perhaps inadvertently, implying that all people who accept a conspiracy theory, accept all other conspiracy theories. Or even a grab bag of those which are well known.
In other words, you are not debating an actual opponent, but a straw-man. You are directing an argument against a fictional person who is a pastiche, someone who believes in a random collection of the most easily discredited conspiracy theories.
I realize that you probably don't recognize what's wrong with this because television news commentators and prominent spokesmen do it all the time, but now that I've pointed out the mistake do you really think this is a good tactic to use in an argument?
A humbler, and more defensible way to enter the discussion, if you didn't know which conspiracy theories were being defended as due diligence, was to ask.
Why are you directing this at me?
I didn't post a number of different examples. I stated a direct example (one) to rebutt ironman's statement that if you don't believe WTC7 fell naturally that you are "stupid".
Honestly, you have to be stupid NOT to see the absolute and completely obvious flaw in the official story of how it fell. Period.
I think your reply was actually directed at Ironman, but I couldn't tell for sure. He's the one who tossed out a bunch of consiracy theories and then claimed you had to be stupid to believe them.
Thanks
I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
What a joke!
"WTC 7 - they cannot explain how someone wired the building, cannot provide evidence about who wired the building, or really any credible evidence (complete with chain of custody) that an explosion occured. All they have is "it looked to me like one of them demolitions", and they then ignore any evidence to the contrary."
You don't have to know exactly HOW something happened in order to know exactly how it DIDN'T happen. There is no way that every single column in WTC7 failed simultaneously, and on every single floor. This is IMPOSSIBLE!!! I'm a Mechanical Engineer, so I know what the hell I'm talking about.
If you need further evidence of what a collapse looks like as a result of fire and damage, look at the Pentagon on 9.11. Do you see the entire Pentagon collapse in a single lump? No. Part of the wall falls down and then another. It didn't all come down in 1 piece, straight down, nice little pile, everyone's happy.
So before you come here and start acting like you're smarter than everyone here who KNOWS damned well that WTC7 did not fall due to damage and fire, I suggest you speak with any Mechanical, Structural, or Architectural Engineer. You just might understand why WTC7 is the smoking gun.
read Nists working hypothesis
They are structural engineers.
And even if their hypothesis is not correct, it doesn't mean it was explosively demolished. Nist looked high and low for Demolition, and they could not find it.
Of course, you'll say everyone at Nist is a liar.
The NIST had to study just
The NIST had to study just several pieces from a LOCAL junkyard AFTER all the other materials were sent off to Asia. How does this constitute any kind of "investigation"?
Nobody was allowed to inspect the evidence or the scene before the evidence was toted away.
Question
Did my post make any mention of any of these topics? YOU seem to be the one obsessed with them.
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
A disinformation agent
A disinformation agent has to be proactive about limiting "acceptable" opinion and shutting down debate. The New World Order doesn't want a whole hell of a lot of people waking up now. The FEMA camps (that, quote, don't exist) won't be big enough.
I hope there'll be a "special" prison for disinfo agents when the cause of the true patriots succeeds.
"We don't have to start a brand new revolution...All we have to do is restore the original Constitution." -Ron Paul
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"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
they are simply examples of cases
Where people claim they are doing "due diligence, but are really just deluding themselves. I am trying to explain how one might mistake doing research on these topics as "due diligence".
Yes
There is always that key aspect of separating the wheat from the chaff. That is the diligent individual's job. What I am against is the ignorant criticism of asking penetrating questions in general.
Whether it is via stupidity or ill intent, there are a lot of things that are "taboo" that should not be in a free society.
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
I'll just call your idea stupid
I'll just call your idea stupid and not waste time debating it.
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"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
exactly
people do this all the time, and its good that they do.
Nice
Quality reasoning.
I guess this is why I am saying there needs to be significant DUE DILIGENCE. So folks with that attitude don't elbow out people who continue to ask questions and seek rational, reasonable, fact-based answers.
Calling something stupid is not an argument. It may be a correct statement, but it can never be confused with an argument. There is too much of this right now, which is clearly the problem.
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
click the link...
That's your philosophy, not mine. I was being facetious.
"We don't have to start a brand new revolution...All we have to do is restore the original Constitution." -Ron Paul
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"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
not sure about the moon buddy
not getting into it but we have much proof even some of the parclastice flows with the proof in the dust deposited all around the city
go back to the rock you crawled out of!the biggest crime scene in history dissappeared under julie-annies nose hmmmm?also we dont have to prove our cases the gov must prove to us that is how democracy works didnt you take an oath agent smith?you should know the constitution! drop dead lets speak on the issues how is it you dont have any defense to L silverstein said "pull it"and only popular mechanicis tryed to explain away questions the families had by the way there are 7000 family members in the 1 / 911 truth movement and there are many more in the ny/nj area so what do you have to sayto the families that want a new investigation i mean we gave a military leader (musharuf)10 mill,or was that billion???do you know?anything of substance?If so what do you know about 911 i am well versed in fact and open minded next you will be pushing new age jesus right???
What ? ?
You are incoherent.
A new investigation is fine. Lets see where the government messed up.
But there is not one shred of evidence that this was an inside job.