BREAKING! Panamanchurian Lawsuit Filed! 3-11-08
Let me preface this by saying explicitly, the lawyer who is filing this suit, while he lives in my town, is *NOT* me! And I don't know him at all, either!
This turned up in this morning's Riverside Press-Enterprise print edition, front page, top and center. Web version reproduced here. After a long day and feeling ill, I unfolded the paper and my jaw hit the floor.
Reference http://www.dailypaul.com/node/37509 for those who for some reason have no idea what this is about.
Then check this out!
http://www.pe.com/localnews/politics/stories/PE_News_Local_D...
Inland man queries McCain's eligibility status
Does the candidate, born outside the U.S., fit the Constitution's 'natural born' requirement?
Download story podcast http://pe.robocaster.com/download.mp3?http://www.pe.com/loca...
10:00 PM PDT on Monday, March 10, 2008
By RICHARD K. DE ATLEY
The Press-Enterprise
A Riverside man wants a federal judge to settle the constitutionally murky issue of whether presidential candidate Sen. John McCain is a "natural born" United States citizen.
McCain was born Aug. 29, 1936, in the Panama Canal Zone. His family lived there because his father, a Naval officer, was assigned to the U.S. territory. McCain's citizenship is not in question.
The challenge is whether he conforms with the "natural born" requirement for president.
"An actual controversy exists," says Andrew Aames, a worker's compensation attorney in Riverside who filed the lawsuit on his own behalf.
Article II of the U.S. Constitution specifies that "No person except a natural born Citizen" can be president.
"It's an odd phrase," said Karl Manheim, a constitutional law professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles.
He said the 1787 language was probably created to keep the British from gaining the presidency. It has never been clarified by a legal challenge.
The issue rose last month when it was revealed that McCain's campaign was investigating the legal issue. McCain, the Republican Party's presumptive presidential nominee, has said he believes the issue is already settled.
"It's very clear that (the idea that) an American born in a territory of the United States whose father is serving in the military would not be eligible for the presidency of the United States is certainly not something our founding fathers envisioned," McCain said.
Ames said he is not a supporter of any particular candidate at this time.
"Nobody put me up to it," he said of the lawsuit. "I hope to get it resolved in the federal courts. It's for the best of the political system. The whole world is watching."
Aames also said he worked briefly for the re-election U.S. Rep. Loretta Sanchez, an Orange County Democrat.
In 2003, he filed a state court suit to stop the special gubernatorial recall election that removed Gov. Gray Davis from office and replaced him with Arnold Schwarzenegger.
In that lawsuit, which court records show Aames eventually withdrew, he claimed California's encouragement of voter registration for non-English speakers violated the state constitution.
The McCain lawsuit, he said, "has nothing to do with Gray Davis, nothing to do with Loretta Sanchez."
Aames' lawsuit names as defendants the United States of America, the Office of the Federal Register, the electoral college and the inaugural committee.
The lawsuit, filed March 6, was assigned to U.S. District Court Judge Stephen G. Larson. No courtroom dates have been set.
'Credible Arguments'
Aames' lawsuit most likely will be dismissed as premature, Manheim said.
"There is no case or controversy yet. There won't be unless or until McCain is elected president in November," Manheim said.
Still, "it's a serious issue, and I think there are credible arguments on both sides," Manheim said. "That being said, I can't imagine the Supreme Court of the United States, where this would certainly wind up, denying McCain the presidency of the United States if the majority elected him."
Manheim said he believes the court would be unlikely to overturn McCain's election based only on ambiguous language in the Constitution.
The question of McCain's status was investigated during his 1999 try for the presidency. Officials in McCain's campaign confirmed last month they had asked legal scholar and former U.S. solicitor general Theodore B. Olson to review the matter again.
McCain said he did not personally ask for Olson to be consulted and that he was already certain the issue was settled.
The "natural born" matter is not unique to McCain. The late Arizona Republican Sen. Barry Goldwater was born in the Arizona Territory in 1909, three years before statehood.
Questions were raised about his status during the 1964 campaign, but ended when Goldwater lost the election to Lyndon Johnson.
Timing Issue
Aames says in his lawsuit that Congress passed a law in 1953 specifying that persons born in the canal zone of at least one American parent are U.S. citizens.
But, he said in the lawsuit, there is a question of timing -- does citizenship from the 1953 act meet the requirements of the Constitution's Article II?
Ames also said it is unclear if a person who qualifies for U.S. citizenship under the 1953 law is also a "natural born citizen," within the meaning of the U.S. Constitution.
Reach Richard K. De Atley at 951-368-9573 or rdeatley@PE.com
The Associated Press contributed to this story
Needless to say I'll be forwarding my stuff to him!





















What's with all the old
topics being brought back today?
I just noticed
at least 3 old posts brought back by the same poster: matthewandruth!!!
Berwick, Columbia County, Pennsylvania
Ron Paul 2012 - The People's Choice
rEVOLution SuperPAC: http://www.revolutionpac.com/
WTP Federal Lawsuit to BAN ALL ELECTRONIC VOTING
http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2011-07-26...
I wonder if Judge Napolitano would comment
He is a Ron Paul advocate and faux aside , may have insight into the Constitutional bearing of un-natural born McBain.
4RonP
I wonder if people/groups
I wonder if people/groups will begin to challenge McCain being on their state ballots based on him not being a natural born citizen... That would be a lot of lawsuits and a lot of news for the MSM to try to cover up!
...
Beats me, but I wish it would happen
It would tie his campaign in knots and further drain his resources and even cause a meltdown. Not to mention the PR damage.
Cool! I know Karl Manheim! Quoted Above
Karl is a neighbor of mine and helped us fight our city's unconstitutional sign ordinance in Culver City, California!
IMissLiberty
IMissLiberty
I'm surpised he didn't know about the Jay origins...
...of the term, though.
UPDATE McCain is Eligible so we can drop this!!!!!!!!!!!
By the power of the one ring (the one ring that bind all others) I award the lollipop Paulites a big bag of Hobbit Weed!!! *joking*
Seriously though, McCain would-have been born here had his Dad not been stationed there. You are grasping at straws and you need to find a better fox to hunt the dogs have lost the scent.
It will be worse to put Ron Paul's name on this one then the 911-truthers!!!
I think a better avenue to pursue is to become a delegate, I'm now a delegate -- oh and to continue precincting. My precincting has changed a bit, I'm focusing less on RP paraphinalia and focusing on Constitutional and Civil Libertarianism as the basis for Republicanism.
We need to get as many RP Republicans and Libertarians in office as possible and focus on strategy going into 2012!!!
McCain will not be elected, he cannot beath Obillary.
Octobox
Wisdom is the anticipation of consequences!
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Another wrong answer
That's a What-if scenario that has no basis in the What-is reality.
Further, Dr. Paul's name is not on this in the slightest. The lawyer in question is a diehard Democrat.
As for delegates, of course that avenue should be pursued, and done so full speed ahead.
And I have said before, I'm only reporting here what someone else has done. Take any gripes up on that with Mr. Aames.
How can we get a competent
How can we get a competent attorney to sit 2nd chair for this case. Since this is going to court it would be nice to know that this battle is actually being fought as opposed to the case being brought and then fought with a lackadaisical approach. The latter would only ensure a McCain victory.
Of course... do WE really want to challenge whether an individual born to American solders is actually a 'natural born' citizen?
This isn't about that at all
Again, take up the lawyering issues with Mr. Aames.
The concern over challenging individuals born to American soldiers as being natural born is a red herring designed to spark emotive reactions devoid of rational thought, based in the fallacious idea of not supporting the troops. That dog doesn't hunt.
Tannin are you sure you
Tannin are you sure you weren't the one who filed this? You were really prepared for this argument...
Positive.
As I said a long time ago, I'm no lawyer.
Besides, Mr. Aames is a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat. I'm a Libertarian.
Hot Dog!
This is awesome news!
Now, as to this...
"Aames' lawsuit most likely will be dismissed as premature, Manheim said.
"There is no case or controversy yet. There won't be unless or until McCain is elected president in November," Manheim said."
...I should think that if one is clearly ineligible to be the President, then one should be barred from running for President. Otherwise, let's let 12-year-olds run for office!
It seems to me
That if he's not eligible then he should not be on any ballots as a candidate, and that he cannot have any pledged electors running on his behalf for the Electoral College in November should he be the nominee.
If
McInsane gets by with this then he paves the way for the Terminator to be his VP and eventually President Schwarzenegger.
"Freedom is a right that can never be won in war,only by each individual "
They would love to make it so
anyone could run after all they have big plans for the California Governor.
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
Once again... (sigh)... this
Once again... (sigh)... this would have NO EFFECT on foreign-born persons, only people born to American citizen parents.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
Absolutely correct.
This would not do anything for Ahhhhhnnnnoooold one way or anther.
Persistence
Let the Big House Rule,
"Tannim", your will is a fine example of un-wavering integrity towards a cause. What ever the black robes dissent, your effort will not be forgotten. Thank you....
What you believe to be true, is true to you... "until you change your mind"
Thanks
But again, I'm not sure I had anything to do with the lawsuit. At least, nothing that I know directly of.
But I did express mail a copy of the Panamanchurian Candidate to Mr. Aames today.
Hey this is the www!
I know.
Remember the past as you look forward to today...
What you believe to be true, is true to you... "until you change your mind"
For me...
It wouldn't feel good to win based on a technicality. The man did serve for this country, after all, and he's American. His lack of sense should be what makes him ineligible for the presidency. That being said, I think it's great for us to report news like this that happens in our respective locales. Keeps the Revolution network going :) Just wish it were more obvious to the masses what a clueless choice they've made in John McCain.
"Nothing is so powerful as an idea whose time has come*
That's what this thread is for--the news
The argument is covered in the other thread.
You guys are dreaming
if you think the courts will find for anybody but McCain.
Dreams can come true.
So can nightmares. I prefer to work towards the former to prevent the latter. I'm sorry you cannot seem to share in that optimism.
Spreading
Hit the Australian news services already:
http://news.sbs.com.au/worldnewsaustralia/query_over_mccain3...
and the Canadians as well:
http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=w0311124A
Also seeing notes in Ballot Access News, Houston Chronicle, RawStory, Seattle Times, Minneapolis Star-Tribune, and elsewhere.
Here we go again!
His parents were citizens
His parents were citizens therefore he is a citizen. It is very plain and simple.
Myself and my wife are citizens
My daughter was born overseas on an Air Base. She is a dual national. She is not allowed to run for the office of POTUS, according to the consolate there.
So you are quite wrong.
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
But he doesn't 'act' natural
But he doesn't 'act' natural born. ;)
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore