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So why couldn't all debt just be written Off?

Seems to be a doable concept - I wouldn't have a problem with that happening. After all its just numbers



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Federal Reserve wants their interest

on their created paper money.

Isn't it to bad you can't start a business printing on paper and collect interest from it.

Federal Reserve bankers will never give up debt (their slavery gig) without a fight.

Do we want to protect the Federal Reserve dollar or not?

I made the suggestion that perhaps the U.S. government should tax dollars traded between nations other than the U.S. I realise this is not possible. But it was a good mental exercise. My question now is; do we want the Federal Reserve Note to survive or not? It appears as if some want it both ways. I see dollars that are held in reserve in other countries as worthless to the American economy. So why should we support them. We admit that they are worthless, the Chinese know that they are worthless, in fact every nation knows that they are worthless, and not back by anything. So why should we protect or allow our government to protect the Federal Reserve dollar? They have been scammed just as we have been scammed. Are we the American taxpayers suppose to pay for this one too. We are protecting petroleum in the Middle East so that China can purchase it with the Federal Reserve dollar. This is driving up the price for us, and causing working people to pay for the irresponsible acts of the Federal Reserve. I say let the dollar fall.

Who says we can't pay?

I bet every household in the US has a monopoly game. Do you realize how much fiat money that is just laying in our closets? Don't let the feds know they will be at our doors looking for it.

"We can see with our eyes, hear with our ears and feel with our touch, but we understand with our hearts."

'cos the market for 7 digit

'cos the market for 7 to 10 digit calculators would collapse.

'I always think of all you canvassors and precinct leaders at the front line.
Good luck out there &Thank you. It's appreciated'.-fip -U.K

'I always thank of all you canvassors and precinct leaders and delegates who were at the front line and caucuses.
Good luck out there &Thank you. You're a gift.

post-it notes nearly on par with dollar.

Well, I went to the mail centre today to cash in my left over holiday dollars, to pick up some post-it notes and a new biro. The lady behind the counter said "Keep your dollars. I can let you have a bottle of bleach, a tube of tacky adhesive and a pen for £2. Or I can take the twenty dollars in exchange and that'ill be £1 for the post-it notes and 50pence for the pen." "Bleach is on special offer today at 49p."

'I always think of all you canvassors and precinct leaders at the front line.
Good luck out there &Thank you. It's appreciated'.-fip -U.K

'I always thank of all you canvassors and precinct leaders and delegates who were at the front line and caucuses.
Good luck out there &Thank you. You're a gift.

Republicae's picture

Under a Fiat Monetary

Under a Fiat Monetary System, which totally relies upon debt for its creation and substance, the circulation of money, thus the growth of the economy depends upon debt and the expansion of that debt. If you pay down the debt or "write-off" the debt that contracts the money supply proportionally and contracts the economy proportionally. In other words: ULTIMATE CRASH!

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"We are not a nation, but a union, a confederacy of equal and sovereign States" John C. Calhoun

Question????

When China uses U.S. dollars to purchase petroleum from Iraq, does the Iraq government pay American taxes? What would prevent the U.S. government from putting and exchange tax on all dollar exchanges between foreign countries and not spent in the U.S.?

The U.S. would not be able

The U.S. would not be able to enforce such a policy. Also, the U.S. has no jurisdiction over these other nations. I believe other countries would have a HUGE problem with this.

...

well, maybe I am missing something

but after we give them dollars, we don't own them anymore...and exactly who the hell are we to lay a global tax on other countries for using dollars that they own? Exactly why the hell would anyone pay it? Or use dollars for any transactions? Or do business with us at all? To bail us out?

I must be missing something here. I am all ears.

You sound like Kramer....

:)

I just

could not resist.

Thank you, jeffking

...for yielding to the temptations of levity. There isn't enough of it on this site.

Viva Agora!
Professor Bernardo de la Paz
www.citizenduquesne.org

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

Perhaps the fall of the federal reserve note is a good thing?

From what I understand they did not print any money, what they did was get people, Americans, to borrow credit. The credit they borrowed was turned into dollars spent to purchase goods from other countries, but because these countries held the dollars instead of spending them on American products, these dollars have not returned to the States and there is a shortage of dollars on the American market. There is no shortage of dollars in China or Japan and if they were to spend these dollars on American products, there would be no need to print or issue more credit. Now the good thing is that we did not have gold backing these dollars when markets were opened with China, since they would be holding all the gold, instead they are holding paper. Unfortunately for us, these dollars still have some value, and are still accepted to purchase goods between foreign nations. Petroleum is one of the products being bought up by the Chinese and hence the rise in price of petroleum and other commodities being bought up on the foreign markets. And unfortunately for us they are using dollars and not spending them here on our economy.

I believe

I believe that Congress could mint a coin, denominated 9 trillion bucks or whatever, and hand it to the fed as settlement. It would be worth as much as the Feds FRN's are so they should be 'happy'.

Someone responded below that Congress could print notes like the Fed which is technically correct. JFK signed Executive Order 11110 that authorized the "United States Note" which was exactly like the FRN but WITHOUT the debt (interest) load. He's (JFK) looking at the root side of the grass in Arlington Cemetery instead of the top today as a result. The assassination in Dallas was only a few weeks after he enacted the order. The order has not been repealed as of today which means the chimp could start printing them tomorrow. However, I am sure his masters are telling him he does not want to do that.

Dr. Paul introduced legislation to legalize "competing currencies" such as the Liberty Dollar and others. I am wondering if the USN's would qualify?

Give us clear vision, that we may know where to stand and what to stand for - because unless we stand for something, we shall fall for anything.
~ Peter Marshall, US Senate Chaplain 1947

so you don't mind if the

so you don't mind if the money in your bank account is taken...if you write it off then someone is not paying someoene else etc. etc. so as long as you don't mind not getting paid it would be ok! this is going to happen anyway because the dollar will be worth nothing! so the dollars in your bank account won't buy anything anyway!

Today's moment of Zen...

"It's a write-off for them."
"How is it a write-off?"
"They just write it off."
"Write it off what?"
"Jerry, all these big companies, they write off everything."
"You don't even know what a write-off is."
"Do you?"
"No, I don't."
"But they do. And they're the ones writing it off."

Technically true, but practically false.

It's numbers, yes, but it's much, much more than that. It's also about confidence. As much as I'd love to throw the Fed in jail, abolish the FR/IRS system, and wipe out all public and private FRN debt, some $12T estimated right now (and that might be a low number), it would send the message that we don't value our currency as we could simply wipe it out at a moment's notice. It would cause a global level 9 heart attack.

Nevermind that the whole confidence factor of fiat money is an illusion anyway, and that people give value to whatever barter proxies we choose, be it FRNs, gold, silver, baseball cards, water, tobacco, guns, or food, or even Beanie Babies if you can find someone to agree with you. This is where reality destroys the argument against competing currencies: things have value because WE give them value (one man's trash is another man's treasure?).

The problem with just wiping out the FRN debt with a stroke of the pen is that far too many people (billions) have bought into the FRN illusion and that is one perception of reality that is 99.99% impossible to overcome. Put simply, billions of people would collectively wig out at having their preconceived notions of reality thrown out on its head. Their Matrix would be destroyed and they'd be faced with a "Now what do we do?" panic.

I think that's be a good thing, though, as it would wake everybody up. But that puts me in a minority.

How about sending a letter to the Federal Reserve.

To whom it may concern,
I am currently trying to convince all my friends, family and network of aquaintences to withdrawl all their money from their bank accounts. I am encouraging them to purchase gold for savings and silver to trade with. I want to educate them not to use Credit Cards, Debit Cards and any other means of currency which can provide profits to the Federal Reserve Bank and other banks. I am also encouraging them to allow the bank to foreclose on their home and move in with me or other family members and live more within their means and not borrow from the bank. I know that this will flood you with homes, and you will be required to pay property taxes, maintain and protect these homes. Then when you own all these homes, we will come and buy them back at a large discount to take them off your hands. I hope this gets your attention and makes you think twice about printing more paper notes and not allowing real money to exist.
Your truely,
___________________

No cards us cash.

Cut up your credit cards and debit cards, when you need to pay for something go to the bank and get some cash. It keeps you from over spending and requires the Central bank to print or the Treasury to issue coins. Probably best to get coins, since the middle man (Federal reserve) is eliminated and no interest is paid to the Federal Reserve Bank. Or so I've been told?

Why could not the government

Why could not the government just print the money without the fed? I know we would have inflation but at least we would not have the debt with it. Is that doable if the government takes back the fed?

Printing money without the

Printing money without the Fed would mean that those who own the Fed would not be earning money from it. Yes, the Federal Reserve is actually not part of the government but is a PRIVATELY owned bank.

...

the more you print.. the

the more you print.. the less the money already incircultion is worth.. does not matter if its the government or the fed.. Printing money is what got these dumb asses into trouble in the first place.. you don't keep doing it.. they should have forced a bad recession years ago to clean out all the excess in the market! but no greenspun just Printed more money! now brnanke is doing the same! Notice how we don't hear anything out of greenspun the last few weeks lol.. its his mess!

Congress doesn't have the

Congress doesn't have the power to print money.

You severely misunderstand economics if you think that would be a good idea. To put it simply, think of supply and demand. Imagine there are $1 trillion dollars in circulation, and Congress prints $10 trillion more. Prices will "rise" because there is more money available to spend on things. Printing more money is stealing value from us.

Read The Creature from Jekyll Island by G. Edward Griffin

Congress is given the power of the Coin by the Constitution

Yes, you are thinking right. In fact, the founders didn't intend for us to have a Central Bank. Congress is given all authority over money issues. But we wound up with a Central Bank anyway,then Lincoln got rid of it, and we did just fine. But then another Central Bank snuck in to take it's place, and Andrew Jackson got rid of that one, and then another snuck in to take it's place. The Fed as we know it today. And so it goes, and so it goes.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
-- Jean Luc Picard

Things are only impossible until they are not.
-- Jean Luc Picard

Your Order is Wrong

Andrew Jackson was president during the 1830's, as I recall. Abraham Lincoln was president during the 1860's. So Andrew Jackson was the first to get rid of the central bank.

But first...

Thomas Jefferson got rid of the first central bank and Jackson got rid of the second central bank. The Federal Reserve is the THIRD central bank, and we're trying to get Dr Paul to dispose of that one.

Viva Agora!
Professor Bernardo de la Paz
www.citizenduquesne.org

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

yeah, then you would not

yeah, then you would not have to pay the interest to the fed, which soon will be all your income tax!!!!!

you see, how important rons message is, yeah it´s a screwed up world...

Sounds great for the

Sounds great for the debtors.. what if you're the creditor and people owe YOU money?

Suggestion:

Pay the credit balance off and cut the credit cards. Some retailers don't like them, except their own issued credit cards. Have you noticed the interest in those store credit cards? A lot of them charge you like loan sharks. 20% is loansharking. Cut them up. When I established my credit, I cancelled them all up. I buy cash and I only use overdraft protection in case of emergency. Compulsive buying is one problem people must take control of. It causes a lot of problems. When I go out shopping, I have in mind things that I will buy. Of course I look around, but same thing, my focus is on the stuffs I will buy. If I see something else that I seem to like, I'll just tell myself, I'm coming back for it. Then I'll save up to buy it. Chances are, I might change my mind when I get home and end up forgetting about buying it. A little self-control will go a long way.

"He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it." Confucius

"He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it." Confucius

The FED cut rates .75% today

The FED cut rates .75% today as Worlwide stock markets deflated. They want to increase the money supply because they fear deflation.

Our money is entirely create from debt. If ALL debt was retired in our country, there would be NO money. Deflation is defined as a reduction in the credit/money supply. Everytime a loan is created it increases the money supply. Once that loan is retired, the money that was created is also retired.

This would all be different if the money was actually printed. But only a very small fraction of money created is actually ever printed. Only the money needed to carry our day to day transactions is printed. Near ALL of our money is nothing more than book entries, or today, a computer entry.

Our fiat debt based money system REQUIRES inflation. If you go and buy a house on debt, at first you may have a hard time affording it. But due to inflation your wages increase and after a few years your mortgage payment becomes less and less of a percentage of your income. Same with the government. They borrow, get in over our heads, but they know that due to inflation they're revenues will increase. So this HUGE debt, in theory, becomes less and less percentage of revenue.

Currently the subprime markets are seeing increasing defaults. Remember, when a debt is retired, it decreases the money supply. That computer entry that created the money is now zero. That money is gone. Into thin air, from which it came. Debt can also be retired by default or a debt being forgiven. So massive defaults are deflationary, they take money out of the system.

Lately the FED has lost its control, and Greenspan has openly talked about this in an interview a couple months ago. When he dropped rates to near zero, mortgage rates followed. But recently as rates have been increased, mortgages did not follow. Mortgage rates did increase but not proportionately to the previous decrease.

For those who remember, in 2002 Greenspan was talking a lot about "the risk of deflation" to our economy. This was the purpose of cutting rates to near zero. This was to encourage borrowing. Borrowing increases the money supply. At the same time, for those who remember, Bush issued tax rebates. Another increase in the money supply. Both are only temporary bandaids, and result in a larger problem later on (which is nearing).

So inflation is kept going to avoid deflation. Inflation is a increase in the credit supply, increasing debt. To increase debt REQUIRES 2 things. A WILLING BORROWER and a WILLING LENDER. When the banks lose confidence, they stop lending. When borrowers lose confidence, they stop borrowing. This is what controls the FEDS effectiveness. The FED lowers and raises rates to encourage/discourage lending. But this is their only control, they can't fully control the emotional side, the confidence equation.

In 2001 as the recession set in, the borrower lost confidence in borrowing, as is normal in a recession. Lower rates persuaded borrowers to borrow. Borrowers are not as smart as lenders, and more easy to persuade into borrowing. With lower rates borrowers were persuaded to buy new, bigger houses. They cashed out equity in their homes for consumption. And the money supply inflated, the desired goal.

This time around, as the subprime markets crumble, the Lenders have lost confidence. The FED has been injecting 100's of billions into the credit markets. But the credit markets have still stopped a large portion of lending. They are holding onto the cash as they fear that as this unwinds they may need it to cover their ASSetts. This failure to persuade Lenders to lend, combined with increasing defaults, is resulting in a failure to inflate and leading to deflation.

Bushes Tax Rebates. Bush is borrowing for us, increasing the money supply, to avoid deflation. He is borrowing for us because, well because he can, and we can't. When I say we can't I'm referring to the banks loss of confidence, they have cut back significantly on lending. When deflation rears its head, SOMEONE has to borrow, increase the money/credit supply, to inflate.

Fiat debt based money systems are ALL ABOUT ever increasing debt. Without it, they collapse into deflation through defaults. Deflation results in falling prices, wages included. As prices fall, there are less profits for corporations and corp. debt defaults increase causing further deflation. Wages drop resulting in large defaults in consumer debt further increasing deflation. At this point BOTH borrowers and lenders have lost confidence. Deflation continues to spiral downward until most debt has been cleansed from the system, and someone starts borrowing again. This someone is usually the government and usually to finance a war. The USA has gone though 4 depressions since its inception. Near the bottom of all these depressions you find a war followed by economic recovery. The larger the depression has been, the larger the wars have been.

Note: If the FED starts actually printing all the money, then we're in for hyperinflation, as once the money physically exist, it does not dissappear when a default occurs as it does currently. Germany, before they totally collapsed, was printing physical money so fast the they started printing on only one side of the bill, to speed up the printing. The back side of their bill was blank.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/28347

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence