0 votes

How much should you pay for 90% Silver coins?

I've been researching....can anyone explain face value of the coin in plain english....and how much should we be paying for these? I want to understand this well before plunging in! I've checked out coinflation.com...helpful, but I guess I'm just not getting it...

Trending on the Web

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

I bought 73 "junk" silver dimes for $100 yesterday.

The dealer threw in a few plastic coin vials. I bought dimes because all I had for silver were junk quarters and I can imagine sales where smaller change would be needed. I'll probably buy a few hundred of them.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

90% silver coins

Pre-1964 US silver coins are 90% pure silver. A $1000 face value bag of these "junk" coins contains approx 715 ounces of pure silver and that is the quantity upon which a bag's value is calculated. For example, if you bought 400 quarters, that would be $100 face value and would contain 71.5 ounces of silver.

Depending on quantity purchased, a reputable dealer should sell these at very near spot price, which is the bid price for silver on the exchange. You can find that price at Kitco.com or other sites that track it.

Tulving Co (www.tulving.com) sells these bags of junk silver coins at 50 cents *below* spot price, and that includes shipping and insurance! But you have to buy a minimum of a half bag which at today's spot price is going to run you in the neighborhood of about $7000. I have done a lot of business with Tulving over several years and found him to be extremely reputable and helpful. Shipping is always immediate. If he doesn't have it in stock he will say so (unlike some of the dealers who take your money and make you wait for weeks before your metal shows up).

todays ted butler commentary on silver-bear stearns etc.. please




March 18, 2008

Life After Bear Stearns

(This essay was written by silver analyst Theodore Butler, an independent consultant. Investment Rarities does not necessarily endorse these views, which may or may not prove to be correct.)

Before getting into the heart of today’s message, some specific updates on silver. First, there were no big changes in the market structure of silver and gold COMEX futures, as portrayed by the most recent Commitment of Traders Report (COT). In other words, the historic concentrated short positions continue to exist and even expand.

For positions held as of March 11, the four largest traders hold more than 310 million ounces of silver net short, while the eight largest traders now hold a record net short position of over 400 million ounces. In terms of days of world production, or any objective comparison to any other commodity, the silver concentrated net short position continues to be "off the charts." An interesting development is the recent buying by the raptors (the 9+ commercials), which has the effect of isolating the big 4 and 8 traders (the T. rexes.), this accentuates the uneconomic nature of the concentrated short position. After all, if the short sale of silver was such an attractive trade, why would so few commercials be involved?

Even compared to gold, where the four largest traders now hold a larger concentrated gold net short position than at any point in history, at 17.4 million ounces, the silver short position is unprecedented and, quite frankly, an abomination. I don’t know how the regulators at the CFTC and NYMEX can live with themselves for allowing this obvious manipulation to continue. And it is shameful to think the government regulators swore an oath to uphold the law. (News that the Chicago Merc has formally agreed to absorb the NYMEX, brings another party into the manipulation. More on that in the future.)

As previously written, the epic concentrated short position in COMEX silver is a good news/bad news situation. The bad news is that it explains the depressed relative price of silver and accounts for much of the recent price volatility, as the big shorts struggle to create sell-offs with the hope of buying back some of their positions. The good news is two-fold, that it affords the purchase at today’s subsidized low price and will serve as a powerful source of buying on the upside someday. But when? A better question is what may cause the shorts to retreat?

The most logical circumstance that could cause the big shorts to run to cover on the upside is a physical shortage in silver. Remember, the shorts are obligated to deliver real metal, if and when called upon to do so by the longs. This is the shorts’ Achilles’ Heel, that will doom them some day. It is the combination of the extreme concentrated short position and the potential of a physical shortage that portends explosive price action in silver (as distinguished from gold, where no actual industrial shortage appears plausible.)

Of course, by the time we get clear evidence of a pronounced shortage in silver, it is most probable that will already be reflected in the price. In other words, it will probably be too late to buy silver at "reasonable" prices. Therefore, it would seem logical to conclude that we must look for subtle clues that might suggest a physical silver shortage may be upon us. With the caveat that subtle can also be misleading, I think I see two such clues currently.

The first involves recent sales of Silver Eagles from the US Mint. For the first time in my memory, the US Mint could not keep up with demand for Silver Eagles, or, in simple terms, "ran out" of them recently. There is no doubt in my mind that this occurred as a direct result of the article mailed to IRI clients in November written by my friend and mentor, Izzy, "A Beautiful Idea." http://www.investmentrarities.com/12-03-07.html (There were actually two articles by him, including one about the housing/mortgage market that contains the single best idea I have heard to help ease the pain of the housing debacle.)

After Izzy’s article, the Mint sold more Silver Eagles over the next three months than it ever sold before. Then, sales fell off a cliff in February, only to soar to the highest sales ever in March, although the month is only half over. That pattern and informed sources close to the Mint confirm that the Mint ran out of the silver blanks needed to produce the coins, due to unexpected demand. That demand was, obviously, brought about by Izzy’s article. Please keep in mind, that there was no spike in Gold Eagle sales during this time period, so it is clear that this was a silver-only phenomenon.

While the US Mint running out of Silver Eagles, due to a surge in demand, does not prove a broad silver shortage, it does highlight and suggest tightness in the physical distribution supply lines. And it does seem to add credence to Izzy’s prediction that someday the Mint will stop minting Silver Eagles so as not to aggravate any future silver shortage. After all, if they can’t keep up with demand now, how will they keep up in a future known time of shortage?

The second "clue" pointing towards a possible silver shortage has been the pace of metal deposited in the big silver ETF, SLV. Unlike many, I’ve always thought that SLV was on the up and up. I did doubt early on that this ETF would come into existence because of the obvious impact it would have on price, but I always assumed that, if it came into existence, it would be legitimate. That is, I never doubted that the silver they claimed to own did exist and was held by them. While I reserve the right to change my mind, my thoughts were reinforced when Barclays Global Investors accepted my recent public suggestion that they openly list the serial numbers on each 1000 ounce bar of silver they held. Silver held in one’s personal possession or in storage allocated by specific serial numbers is still the best way to own silver, but for large institutional investors, the SLV was fine. Especially when compared to the alternative, which was unbacked bank silver certificates or nothing at all.

My only concern was that there appeared to be times when, on a short-term basis, the fund did not reflect all the silver bought in share form. In other words, due to the logistics of getting physical silver into the custodian’s vaults, not all the recently purchased shares had full metal backing, but were represented by short sales of the shares. I did not, and still do not, consider this a serious problem, as long as the amounts and time lapsed were not excessive.

So I’ve taken to watching volume and price action in the SLV ETF in order to anticipate the amount of silver likely to be deposited on a short-term basis. Based upon my observations, as unscientific as they may appear, the amount of silver that "should" have been deposited very recently is much larger and has taken much longer to show up than any previous time. If my observations are close to being accurate, the most plausible explanation is that the silver was not available for immediate deposit in London.

Further, if true, it may mean silver in industry-standard quantity is tight overall, since silver is very much a fungible commodity. When silver becomes tight enough that industrial consumers must wait too long for its delivery, the long-anticipated industrial user inventory buying panic may be at hand. Once that starts, there will be no putting out the silver fire until it burns out by way of higher prices. Much higher prices.

I know many were disappointed in the weak price action in silver in light of the extraordinary news concerning the bailout of Bear Stearns and the financial system in general. It is important to remember that short-term price changes in silver (and other commodities, including gold) are almost solely dependent on paper trading on the COMEX (and other exchanges) and not on real world supply/demand fundamentals. It is hard for me to imagine any significant non-leveraged physical silver liquidation taking place currently. It is easy to imagine possible leveraged paper silver liquidation on engineered weak prices.

That brings me to the main point of this article; investment life after Bear Sterns. As most longtime readers know, my prime objective has been to end the silver price manipulation. It still is. Secondarily, I have consistently advocated the ownership of physical silver on a long-term basis by individual investors, AKA, "the little guys." Today, I’d like to direct this silver message to large investors, both extremely wealthy individuals and institutional investors, since these were primarily the types of investors that Bear Sterns serviced and advised.

In fact, this message is only aimed at just a very few of these mega-investors, as there is simply not enough silver that exists in the world to accommodate many of them. Four years ago, I wrote about how difficult it would be for truly wealthy individuals to buy meaningful amounts of silver, in "Bigger Isn’t Always Better." Then, I didn’t even include institutional investors.

Smaller investors have some very distinct advantages over larger investors, as has been brought out by the collapse of Bear Stearns. For one, it is easier to protect one’s investment assets, when there is less of them to protect. Smaller investors can adhere to and take advantage of FDIC bank insurance, for instance, which are unavailable to entities with hundreds of millions, or billions of dollars to deposit. Similarly, smaller investors can convert and remove cash from bank accounts much more readily than very large investors. Likewise, smaller investors can buy silver for personal possession, like Silver Eagles, or bags of old coins, or in small bar denominations. Those with hundreds of millions, or billions of dollars to invest, can’t.

Because of these inherent restrictions on sizable investors, they need to protect themselves in different ways than smaller investors. That’s why very large investors will transfer funds in a heartbeat from a firm that comes under suspicion, like Bear Stearns, to a firm appearing safer. Shoot first, ask questions later.

The problem, of course, is that the universe of safe financial firms to which a large investor can flee is becoming smaller. Compounding this problem is the inexorable movements to de-leverage and insure counterparty quality.

The solution to this compounded problem for very large investors is simple; buy silver. Due to the limited amount of real silver available for investment, for those few large investors who have the foresight and act in a timely manner, silver should prove to be as rewarding an investment for them as it has been for smaller investors over the years.

In addition, silver should prove to be as safe an investment for very large investors, as it has proven to be for all previous investors. That’s because silver, when held in the proper form, can’t go bankrupt. It can’t default on a counterparty. It can’t go worthless overnight. And it is not subject to a margin call if you don’t buy it on margin in the first place.

The key for very large investors is owning silver in the right form. Let’s face it - a very large investor can’t buy a meaningful quantity of Silver Eagles, small bars or bags of junk coins. The large investor can buy real silver in one form and one form only - 1000 ounce bars, the industry standard.

For the sake of this discussion, and in reality, I will define the minimum size of a large investor purchase silver purchase at 500,000 ounces, and increments of that amount. This amount is equal to 100 COMEX silver contracts and is the size of one "basket" of SLV shares, 50,000 shares (10 ounces each). At $20 per ounce, such an institutional, or large investor unit of trade comes to $10 million.

Since the large investor does not have to spend time deciding in what form to buy silver, he can concentrate on the only remaining issue that remains important, namely, making sure the 1000 ounce bars he buys actually exists. Here, the large investor need only remember two words; serial numbers.

As long as the large investor gets the serial numbers (which will also come with the specific weight and hall mark of each bar) as well as the ability to physically withdraw those specific bars owned on demand, he can be sure he owns real silver. Anything else is suspect and must be avoided. The investor should be prepared to pay around 0.25% to 0.50% in annual storage and insurance fees.

There are only three sources from which the institutional or large investor can buy silver in good form and 500,000 oz unit increments; the COMEX, the SLV, and a private OTC transaction directly with a bank or financial institution. Of those three, the first two are the preferable choices, due to fewer restrictions on sale or transfer and avoidance of the very issue of counterparty risk. After all, in the event of a bailout of a financial institution with whom you may be privately holding a sizable quantity of silver, how much concern do you think the regulators will place on a large depositor getting back his silver in a timely manner?

With silver held in COMEX-approved warehouses (not the COMEX itself, but separately-owned and licensed depositories) and the SLV, the large investor is holding real metal in third-party custodianship. That’s the way it should be held. With silver held in COMEX-approved depositories, you can remove the specific bars you own on demand in any quantity, down to increments as small as 5000 ounces. With the SLV, you must arrange to have an Authorized Participant (AP) remove non-specified silver for you, in baskets of 500,000 ounces, as spelled out in the prospectus. Undoubtedly, as a large investor, you already have a relationship with an AP, or can quickly establish one.

It is important to insure you have the ability to remove your silver. That is the lynchpin to legitimacy. Without that ability, you are holding an unsecured claim on a counterparty, precisely what you want to avoid. This is the attraction and safety of real silver, it is no one else’s liability, unless you allow it.

In order to secure COMEX warehouse receipts (real silver, fully paid for and held in storage for you), you will undoubtedly be required to buy futures contracts first. Then you will be able to accept delivery, at the time and storage facility of the seller of the contract, at the sellers’ discretion. Unfortunately, you do not own real silver until the delivery process is complete. Until then, you own futures contracts that are a derivative, but the counterparty risk is backed by the clearinghouse of the COMEX and NYMEX (soon to be the CME Group). I don’t know how to get around that process.

A few closing and, perhaps, blunt thoughts to potential large individual and institutional silver investors.

Do not be persuaded to permanently hold large quantities of silver in futures contract form, due to leverage considerations. It’s OK to use COMEX futures to fix the price of the silver you intend to buy, but finish the transaction properly and as quickly as possible and pay for and get the real silver in storage. If you want to speculate and trade the price of silver, then stick to futures on margin. Good luck, You’ll need it.

Just remember that the market-makers (I sometimes refer to them in more derogatory terms) will sell you all the paper silver (futures and options) that you wish to buy, as they can sell an unlimited amount of such paper silver. After all, what difference does it make to the 4 traders who are already net short more than 300 million ounces that they don’t own, or the 8 traders who are short 400 million ounces they don’t own, to sell you 50 or 100 million ounces more? You know the saying, in for a penny, in for a pound. You will quickly discover, by the cockamamie stories about why you really don’t want actual silver, and by the delays and excuses for when your real silver will be delivered, just how little remains of the real deal.

Be realistic about how much real silver you can actually buy. Given the present circumstances, I think the most skillful buyers would have extreme difficulty in buying more than 50 million ounces in total at near current prices. That’s roughly a billion dollars worth of silver. Please think about that for a moment. It is my contention that no more than one billion dollars worth of real silver could be bought at current prices. If you try, you will quickly find out that I am correct. You may be able to buy 10,000 COMEX futures contracts and lock in the price, but I doubt that even that could be accomplished near current prices.

Don’t confuse the lockstep price changes between gold and silver with them being the same commodity. They are very different commodities, even if their price movements appears joined at the hip. No disrespect to gold, but silver is vastly superior. There’s much less physical silver available to be purchased than gold, even though silver is priced at only 2% of the price of gold. Since it is not industrially consumed, gold can’t plausibly develop into a shortage situation. A silver shortage is unavoidable. With billions of gold ounces available at some price, buying one million ounces for one billion dollars shouldn’t present a problem, as the world’s inventory of gold is valued in the trillions of dollars. As I wrote above, I don’t think more than a billion dollars could be used to buy real silver without jolting the price significantly.

The main difference between the gold and silver is that silver is the better value on the true fundamentals. The world doesn’t have to end for silver to climb in price. Nor does the dollar have to collapse. Nor must there be inflation, deflation, turmoil in the financial system or a fight to quality. If, unfortunately, those circumstances occur, silver should do fine. But all that has to occur for silver to quadruple in price again, just like it has already quadrupled, is for time to pass and more people recognize its true fundamentals and for the manipulative short position to be resolved. This will happen regardless of changing conditions.

Even if you find my silver message somewhat outlandish and unbelievable, I challenge you to investigate the facts. There can be no better example to study, for better and worse on silver, than the world’s most successful large investor, Warren Buffett. Ten years ago, he bought 130 million ounces at $5 per ounce, for all the right reasons, i.e., the real fundamentals. Not content to just sit on it, in my opinion, he tried to get fancy and trade futures against it for extra income and wound up losing a stash that could never be replaced ever again. Learn from that - buy real silver, and then forget about it.

All Rights Reserved © 2002 Investment Rarities, Inc.
For Web Site Questions Contact the Web Master

Massive Silver shorts will Never be covered via metal delivered

SIERRAHPBT, Prob should have this on it's own thread, But Thank You for giving me my weekly Ted Butler dosage. I read Ted regularly & have not yet read Ted's latest essay, until you posted it here. Too much to read, so little time.

In regards to Ted repeated attacks on ("the 4 traders who are already net short more than 300 million ounces that they don’t own, or the 8 traders who are short 400 million ounces they don’t own, to sell you 50 or 100 million ounces more?") I think Ted is right on. But it's futile.

Since there are zero Large above ground stockpiles of physical silver (as in gold), I think we are witnessing the 'invisible hand' of the PPT & the central bankers using these paper pushing shorts to manipulate the price of 'real' silver. These 4/8 traders (traitors?) are in cahoots with the same fine banksters that Mr. Murphy & GATA have been exposing for so long; capping the price of gold.

Silver is capped via these never to be covered silver shorts; with the blessing of our Gov't PPT. 'THEY' will never cover these shorts since they make the rules to fit their circumstances. Think back to 1980, not allowing any COMEX buyers, only sellers of silver, to wreck the Hunt Bros' little monopoly game they had going in silver. The 'insiders' were HUNTED & trapped. So they simply changed the rules.

No sir, Mr. Butler. Your repeated attempts to bring this silver short concentration to the attention of the authorities; is a pointless task...They are in on it. The massive silver short position will never be covered via good delivery of metal. After a dose of hyperinflation, the insiders will deliver 'Weimer Republic' US paper dollars to settle the silver contracts short. They make the rules up as they see fit. Can't fight City Hall OR the US Gov't!
Thanks again Sierra, Pat.

To Find Melt Value of 90% Silver USA coins.

All good advice below, just adding a simple formula to the discussion.

Here is your answer in "plain English".

Take spot silver x .715 = factor to multiply by Face Value of circulated 90% silver coins

ie. If current silver spot is $19.82/oz. & you want to know how much to pay for a silver quarter.

19.82 X .715 = 14.1713 X .25c = $3.54 melt value for one silver quarter.

Use .7234 for uncirculated 90% coins.

This works for All pre-1965 dimes, quarters, halves. Just total the face value.
Lightly circulated 90% Silver dollars use .772 as the factor.
kitco.com is a good current silver spot price source
Good Luck & Congrats for a wise decision to buy these.

It's a bit more complicated...

Keep in mind a few facts:
1. "Junk silver" is 90% silver by weight. So don't weigh your bags of silver and calculate price straight from that. You must adjust by 90% to get the silver content.
2. When dealing with gold and silver, "ounces" aren't exactly what you think they are. They are troy ounces. A typical household or postage scale measures in avoirdupois ounces, known to the average person as simply "ounces". 1 "regular" ounce = 0.91146 troy ounces.

Therefore when a $1000-face bag of silver coins is advertised as containing 715 ounces of silver, they mean 715 troy ounces of silver. That's 784.46 regular ounces. Then divide by 0.9 to get 871.62 regular ounces of total weight of the bag, not including the bag itself of course. So a $1000-face bag of silver coins should weigh 54 lb 7.6 oz + bag, plus or minus a bit depending on how worn the coins are.

I wouldn't worry about the coins' condition as long as they aren't so worn/damaged as to be unrecognizable. If you sell the bag later back to a dealer, they probably only care about face value. If you use the coins as money, such as if the economy and dollar collapses, most people are going to value your silver quarter the same whether it's in perfect condition or worn thin, because it won't be worth inspecting every coin. Do you care about the condition of our current money (coins/bills)? As long as it's recognizable and usable, you're happy. I assume the same with silver coins in the future.

One last piece of trivia: 1 troy pound is defined as only 12 troy ounces, in contrast to 1 regular pound defined as 16 regular ounces. They just had to make this more complex! Be careful!

When the spot price of

When the spot price of silver is given, do they mean troy ozs. or "regular?" Thanks.

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels


All gold and silver prices are shown in dollars per troy ounce. So all my explanation above is relevant only when you weigh your new bag of silver on your household scale and wonder why it's so much heavier than 715 regular ounces. Or worse, if an unscrupulous dealer sells you a bag that weighs 715 regular ounces total on a household scale, you later learn that you were cheated by 20%!

The best place I've found for buying gold and silver is apmex.com. They are currently selling 90% silver bags of $500-face or more for 38 cents per troy ounce under spot. The price is a bit higher for smaller bags.

Thank you

. . . for taking the time to explain.

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

More math

As an example, take apmex's advertised price (at this moment only) of $13,927.68 for a $1000-face bag, and divide by 712 (yes, some dealers say 712, some 715. close enough) troy ounces of silver content to get $19.56 per troy ounce. At the moment I pulled that price, spot silver's ask-price was $19.94 per troy ounce. Hence the $0.38 per troy ounce discount.

Thanks again. Apmex sounds

Thanks again.

Apmex sounds interesting, but then I figure I have to pay by credit card and there's a trail. I'm going to try and buy locally.

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

Pay by check

Definitely don't buy gold/silver from apmex with a card if you can avoid it, because you'll have to pay quite a fee to cover their processing expenses. I've always paid by personal check and was just patient during the 2 weeks they need to verify clearance. With personal checks, there is supposedly no requirement for them to file a report. In general, only cash transactions must be reported. Money orders are considered equivalent to cash for reporting purposes. Personal checks are not treated as cash.


I didn't notice there was a fee for paying by card. I'd rather pay by check, I can wait if they're reliable. Maybe I'll try it.

I noticed the handling charges add to the per oz. price quite a bit, but I figure it'll wind up being the same as my local dealer since AMPEX's price is good.

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

Wise move --- no paper

Wise move --- no paper trail. I wish more people would stick with cash nowadays; man, I hate credit cards for SO many reasons!

BTW, if you don't want extremely worn coins (if that matters to you), you can either ask for dimes (I have observed that they tend to be less worn in the "junk" bags for some reason), or buy the 40% silver, 1965-1969 half dollars, which never received any great amount of circulation to begin with.

Thanks for your info as

Thanks for your info as well.

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

If you turn in about 200

If you turn in about 200 dollars worth of coins do you have to present drivers' license or anything? They can't just give you cash back with no reciept?
Wouldn't the thousand dollar limit be a good argument to get half ounces or smaller denominations so you can skate around this reporting law.?

A question to anyone out

A question to anyone out there regarding SELLING (not purchasing) silver and gold in the US today: I recently read a post in which it was stated that all people selling any quantity of gold or silver coins or bullion in the US have to give a photo ID, which will then be copied and kept on record. Is this true? If so, what a f#$king outrage! Why does NOBODY fight these egregious violations of privacy anymore?

My Favorite Calculator

This tool calculates the melt value of silver coins based on the current silver price: http://www.coinflation.com/...

It is a guide to the market value. They suggest eBay as a good gauge of market value also.

I see someone already posted this below. Great minds...

For Liberty!

For Liberty!

It fluxuates

like everything else, somewhere lately 14 or 15 time face value of the coin. Just buy them, as around here they are getting harder to find. If you get the mercury dimes, buy a coin book too. Some of the shops do not have time to check the coins now, as business is brisk, so you may get lucky and find a rare one--or give it to the kids to check out----some can be worth a lot of money depending on condition, mint marks, years, double strikes,etc. So go for the dimes, quarters, halves, dollars--I think someone said the nickels contain less silver, not for sure. The plain English part, if you walk into a coin shop, you will make your pick of coins. They will then be put into a counting machine to seperate coins, and they they will multiply 14 or whatever times 10 cents = $1.40 per dime,same method on other coins. Hope this helps you.

The following is the weight

The following is the weight of pure silver in each silver US coin (pre-1965):

Dimes: 0.07234 oz.
Quarters: 0.18084 oz.
Half-Dollars: 0.36169 oz.
Dollars: 0.77344 oz. (yes, not proportional to others)

and the oddball:

40% Silver Half-Dollars, 1965-1969: 0.14792 oz.

So, just figure out how many of each coin(s) you would like to buy, mulitply that number by the silver content (above), and then multiply THAT number (which would be ounces of silver) by that day's silver spot price, which you can find at Kitco.com or many other sites.

You may have to pay a small percentage over the calculated price (the "premium"), but for circulated coins this is usually quite small --- perhaps one or two percent.

I called ....

a local coin store....she said the 90%silver pre-1964 - are 14.50 x face value...from what I can tell that's about right?...


does it really matter when silver skyrockets to the historical ratio 10:1 to gold and gold is projected to go still higher. buy it. hide it. no paper trail...

thanks for the feedback... but

It's hard to know because all the coins have different value. I don't know what coins she has...for instance, a Washington quarter vs. a Roosevelt dime..or does it matter?

try this

This site has a calculator for the metal value of silver and gold coins.


Don't worry about the price you pay just pay it because it is less now than it is going to be.
The new Federal money being pumped into the economy is inflationary.
To create this so-called "money," the Fed has to steal the value of what each of us has earned, saved, or invested.

Imagine how outraged you would be to learn that a thief had stolen your identity and used it to siphon your savings in small, subtle increments, until you and your family are driven into destitution.

The dollar's value vs. Swiss franc over the past six months: When the dollar's trend-line begins to look like an Alpine ski run, you know things are getting nasty.

At least they burn: A German housewife finds a suitable use for her country's useless currency during the hyperinflation of 1923. Some have suggested at least one other possible use for fiat currency, but unfortunately it's neither soft nor absorbent enough.

James Howard Kunstler, whose blog is as indispensable as its tragically appropriate name is unpronounceable in polite company, dispels the booming, buzzing confusion and lays bare the stark reality of our predicament:

"The US faces a pretty stark choice right now: it can let the losers take their losses -- both the big institutions who created and traded in fraudulent securities, and all the "little guys" who borrowed too much money trying to get rich quick, or trying to live like the millionaires they see on TV. We can let them go down, and suffer the consequences of their bad choices (and maybe prosecute some of the culpable bankers and corporate executives); or, in an effort to let these losers off the hook we can wreck the whole machinery of capital by making our medium-of-exchange worthless."

Liberty is our campaigns gift to the world it is our manifest destiny.
Freedom is a movement who's time has come. Our campaign will lead world wide freedom.

I have used www.golddealer.com...

My friend, who has been aware of the coming debacle for some time has been through the wringer with regards to numismatic dealers and the veritable smörgåsbord of methodologies that they employ.

www.golddealer.com (California Numismatic Investments) is what he finally rested on for his purchases. They are completely transparent, with their premiums listed prominently on their website. I trust him so, I never did anymore shopping.

Currently the premium on 90% silver coinage is $.06 per oz. for full "$1,000.00 Face Value" bags and , I believe even their half bags of $500.00 face value. A full bag contains 715 oz. of coinage (44.68 lbs.). They come as either Dimes, Quarters or Half Dollars all minted prior to 1965.

As some don't understand, the standard weight of silver per dollar was set at 312.81 Grains of pure silver to the dollar (Grains per Ounce conversion is 437.5 Grains/Ounce) so any incremental coinage is the appropriate fraction thereof. Dimes are 10% or 31.28 grains of pure silver to each coin, quarters are 25% or 78.20 grains of pure silver per coin, and Halves are 50% or 156.40 grains per coin. Therefore, it doesn't matter which coins you get.

Pure silver bars and ingots each carry their own premiums that are set by the supply/demand function of the market. Currently coinage is bulky and out of favor, thus the low premium. Certainly this will change as things melt down around us. BTW, $1,000.00 face value will fit in a tennis shoe box sized container.

So spot is currently 20.18

20.18 x 715 Oz.(44.68 lbs.) = $14,428
715 x $.06 = $42.90
Total $1,000.00 face value bag = $14,470.90

To buy, one calls golddealer.com and places an order at the spot price + whatever premium is pertinent. They will lock in the price at the time of the order, give you an identifying order number, and allow a few days for payment to be affected either via cashier's check or bank wire. As soon as payment has been posted to their account, the metals are shipped via US Postal Service Insured. The process from order to delivery, assuming bank wire the following day, is approximately 5 days.

The transaction to sell is about the same except the payment to you is affected upon receipt of the metals by CNI. Shipping the silver back s your responsibility.

**Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men. -Ayn Rand- **

"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece

I have a silver guy...

..he gives me bars, rounds, and coins at about $1 over current rates per ounce. Two months ago they cost $15/each. Now over $21.

Does my burka make my butt look fatwa?

Here's what I did and learned


I bought $1K worth of kennedy halves - 90% silver and got 140 coins or $70 face value.

I also paid CASH, no name required, no problem.

WHEN you cash in, if you cash in over $1k, must be reported to IRS. $999.99 - no report, HOWEVER, must present drivers license to copy and attach to the receipt regardless of how much silver you redeem. Part of the Patriot Act (don't want us to launder any of our drug - ur - anyone's drug money.

I like smaller junk coins as can be "traded" for goods or products, when we start a fire with our flat dollars. So, I have dual purpose for seeing that as an advantage.

How Much Over "Spot"?

Is $0.25 over spot a fair fee? Or should I look elsewhere? At what point would you say, "Oh, that's too much over spot; go elsewhere."?

I've bought so-called "junk" silver U.S. coins in

the past. (Paid for my first house with them in fact....after selling them for Federal Reserve Notes of course.) A "bag", as others have noted, contains various "face" amounts of U.S. silver coinage; that is to say, coinage which has little in the way of numismatic value. A $1000.00 "bag" will have U.S. silver coins that total $1000.00 in face value; "face" value in, say, 1950, but worth a lot more than that in terms of today's "currency of the realm". You will pay a premium in buying silver that way but there are several companies around that you can check out in order to buy whatever quantity interests you. I have a personal preference to silver or gold expressed in either U.S. coinage or, at least in the case of gold, in a relatively recognizable coin form although that is not everyone's preference. There are pros and cons to consider, It is possible to buy the "bags" on margin also. Good luck to you.

"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."