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"The Money Masters" monetary reform .vs. Ron Paul



Many of you here, have probably seen the movie: "The Money Masters", which not only presents a comprehensive history of Central Banking and its corruption throughout civilization, but also proposes specific monetary reform to get the United States out of its massive debt, and out of a dishonest, debt-producing system.

Refer to: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

and refer also their proposed: "Monetary Reform Act".

____________

The solution and proposed monetary reform is quite different than the solution offered by Ron Paul. The Money Masters specifically reject the idea that gold-based currency will resolve our problem. While it may stablize the value of the dollar, this by itself would also constrict the supply of money that would need to be generated to ever pay down the massive U.S. debt and prevent the continued theft and piracy of the American citizens by invisible interest obligations.

Instead The Money Masters propose having the government (and not the Federal Reserve) printing large amounts of debt-free paper currency, as Abraham Lincoln also did to finance the Civil War, while simultaneously abolishing fractional reserve lending practises -- to keep inflation in check. The result of this would be a fairly painless way of totally dissolving the massive U.S. multi-Trillion dollar debt, and also establishing going forward a future monetary standard based around debt-free money, not under the control of the Federal Reserve, and no inverted pyramid fractional reserve lending practises. Without all the massive debt (profit to the private bank cartel), our Nation and our government could conduct its affairs and its economy efficiently without all the heavy burdens and costs taken daily right off the backs of American Taxpayers

What Ron Paul speaks about, however, is primarily keeping the value of the dollar stable by basing it on gold and/or silver. While this would keep the dollar strong, that by itself does not address the American debt situation and the redirection of American citizens wages going to pay perpetual interest and line the pockets of private profiteers. While Ron Paul also advocates cutting government spending, he also advocates elimination or reductions in taxes. It is hard then to imagine that you could both eliminate or drastically cut the income tax and also pay down the Trillions of dollars of public debt, while having the volume of money (money supply) also contrained by gold/silver.

So, I wanted to see here if Ron Paul had ever commented specifically on The Money Masters "Monetary Reform Act" proposal and whether he liked it or didn't like it.

It seems to me that the American citizen will always be condemned to being a rat running around on a futile treadmil -- until the massive debt is gone and we also get away from debt-producing generation of money.

As long as all economic activity is a function of public debt, there is no way we can escape slavery.

So why is The Money Masters wrong (if they are wrong), and why hasn't Ron Paul throw his support behind their efforts and their remedy?

Thanks.





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Excellent subject LibertyBaby...

thank you for starting this conversation... I hope RP will take a notice...

Here is one more very insightful movie for all to watch... The Empire of "The City"... These two parts are 2hrs long each but show who is controlling us from the beginning of this cabal... and solutions to cure that problem... learn about the 3 Cities and who is hiding behind them... who is wielding the reign of terror and power on We-The-People of this Planet...

THEY own us... OWN=NWO...
http://video.google.ca/?hl=en&tab=wv
If you have a problem, search the web for this tile...
- The Empire of The City

This is an old thread but a never ending topic,,,money.

First, when talking about paying off the national debt, you're talking about a debt created by computer entry's on a ledger of accounting. Trillions of "paper" dollar bills do not exist.

When you talk about Gold/Silver used as money, you're talking about real tangible things that can be touched, weighed, and exchanged in small or large amounts for products or services.

So, the question is, how do we pay off a computer entry with a real thing like Gold ?

It can't be done because the computer entry was created out of thin air, whereas monetary Gold was created through an expensive process of mining, and refining.

Here is some old Ron Paul stuff readers may enjoy:

04/25/06 Audio: Ron Paul re: Money

http://www.apfn.net/pogo/M001I060425193838-RON-PAUL-MONEY-4-...

Speeches And Statements

HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS
Before the U.S. House of Representatives

February 15, 2006

The End of Dollar Hegemony

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11946.htm

beesting

Questioning assumptions

I'm coming in late here, I watched The Money Masters last week, and I must say "wow!!" I GET it now, amazing!! Regarding the comments below:

-- G. Edward Griffin is just one expert, no one is a divine oracle. Milton Friedman and others have different views. Franklin, Jefferson, Madison, Andrew Jackson, Lincoln, James Garfield, Williams Jenning Bryan, Woodrow Wilson (eventually), and John F. Kennedy, to say nothing of Sir Josiah Stamp, head of the Bank of England, also all had a similar perspective -- that the Treasury itself should be issuing our money, NOT private central banks. Franklin and Lincoln both had EXPERIENCE with issuing fiat money backed by nothing, but their successful experiments were quickly squashed.

-- I used to believe that precious metal backing was important, now I see why it isn't. I think we mix up two functions in our money today, and that is 1) a medium of exchange, and 2) a retainer of value. As a medium of exchange, to make it easier than direct bartering, paper "chits" is fine! Gold and silver on the other hand are good for retaining value. So maybe we need to clarify our concepts -- money = exchange, and wealth = value.

-- If you have NOT seen this video, I highly recommend it before speaking against its ideas. Pay special attention to the "tally sticks" the kings of England used. They were essentially worthless pieces of wood, but the king accepted them for taxes, making them legal tender. When the Bank of England was instituted, at least one of its board purchase his shares in the bank using tally sticks -- imagine that!!

-- One "problem" with gold that is rarely discussed, which the video addresses, is that because it is relatively scarce, it's also easy to corner and control. In fact, I double checked some of the video's facts and it does appear that our gold reserves have diminished by 75% since 1953. Are we giving the gold to others? Who has it now? The IMF is the world's largest holder of gold now. Are you sure you want the value of our gold to be vulnerable to manipulation by the IMF? At least silver, being more plenty, is more difficult to corner and control.

-- The question about perhaps having problems because of a money supply that is fixed.... The proposed act that accompanies this film suggests increasing the money supply every year the same percentage as the growth in GDP, which is, on average, about 2-3% growth per year. So new money *would* be entering the system, but at a low, controlled, and steady rate, reflective of our actual growth, not whipped up out of thin air.

-- One assumption that got totally burst for me was the idea that booms and busts, prosperity and recessions/depressions are "normal". Tracking the history since Rome, it appears that this isn't true -- at all. The ups and downs are manipulations by the bankers, NOT because they are just trying to help us out out of goodwill. Consider a pusher and an addict -- the pusher will NEVER want the addict to be free of his drug. He wants to keep his customer dependent on him!! If the addict begins to get strong and become independent, what does the pusher do? He creates a panic, causing fear and disempowering the addict, then he comes in to "save the day".... followed by a period of relative stability, then another crisis/panic (oh no!), wringing the addict for long enough to completely break him, then he comes in to save the day again!! It's a classic brainwashing technique, intended to strip the addict of any power to get off his drug. In other word the pusher is a vampire -- just like the banks, ANY bank, central or not. They don't help us out of goodwill, their objective is a steady stream of interest -- just like blood. They will NEVER want us to be debt-free, not ever.

Whether we take their bait and invest in a commodity they can easily corner, or whether we continue in denial, using our debt-backed currency and letting the vampires push the interest rates and money supply up and down at THEIR WILL, neither will bring us to freedom and stability.

-- Re the Constitution's statement about silver and gold, it's true. And yet the courts interpreted the combination of references in the Constitution to mean that printing (in addition to coining) was allowed. And that's why Lincoln was allowed to print and use Treasury-issued greenbacks, which worked really well, until the bankers conspired because it threatened their source of blood -- oops, I mean interest.

Everyone, you simply MUST see this video. It's long, it took me all week to watch it in parts, but I am thankful I did. It's well researched and totally thorough. You will be FLOORED when you see the historical trail.

LibertyBaby you asked.

Snip: So why is The Money Masters wrong (if they are wrong), and why hasn't Ron Paul throw his support behind their efforts and their remedy? {end snip }

Because Ron Paul wants to follow the Constitution when it comes to money.

If you want to see why the Gold/Silver clause was put into the Constitution, please read this written in 1752 by Congressman Roger Sherman:

http://www.constitution.org/cmt/rsherman/caveatagainst.htm

The intent was to put the "POWER" of money right into the hands of we the people, including the use of private banks, which worked as well as any other private business until 1913.
By the way, please check out this current list of bank failures:

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/banklist.html

Now maybe depositors have not lost money in these defaults,,,I don't know,,,but I imagine lots of low level banking employees are out of work.

History has shown many times that money created by the Treasury or anybody else, out of thin air would eventually lose value like the current dollar because of unscrupulous people in charge. The founders advocated the "DEATH" penalty for anyone caught cheating on the metal content of U.S. mint issued Gold/Silver coins.

Did Money Masters further explain why the Lincoln issued Greenbacks eventually became worthless?

I'll tell you why. Because their is a natural law that if sound money { Silver/Gold } is used in circulation it eventually will cause the demise of unsound money because people would rather use money that "Keeps" it's value, rather than money that loses value.

beesting

The Greenbacks were stopped

Congress voted to no longer allow Greenbacks, which is why they became valueless. The so-called Banking Reform Act of 1865 put the Bankers and the debt-based money back as the only accepted legal tender (Greenbacks were taken out of circulation).

I agree with your point about silver/gold, but my point is that this alone does not solve the problem. If we still have debt-based money creation (with commodity backing), then not much is really accomplished at all. Because the money in circulation will always be less than the outstanding debts, and we will still have pyramiding debt-generation that will serve to distort the money supply (you have to keep increasing the money supply to account for the ever exploding debt).

So, rather than a focus on "metals", the true focus here should be on getting the power away from the usurers (the private Bank Monopoly), and taking the profit and the massive debt out of the system.

Debt-free money creation will allow us to eventually pay all the debt off, and create a far more stable money-supply level, and thus more constant, prosperous, and predictable economic conditions.

That's why the Bankers didn't like Greenbacks.
It put them totally out of power, and gold by itself cannot do that (they own and manipulate that too!).

Fallacy

"...we will still have pyramiding debt-generation that will serve to distort the money supply (you have to keep increasing the money supply to account for the ever exploding debt)."

Not true. That fallacy has been debunked here on DP repeatedly, once by none other than the redoubtable G. Edward Griffin. Can someone dig up the link?

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"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

I think you're confusing local private banking,,,

,,,with Central banking.

From the time of Andrew Jackson { early 1820's ? }to 1913 there was no central bank and this is what happened:

From 1865 to 1913 U.S. growth averaged 4% per year, starting the period producing about 1/2 of what the British Empire produced and ending the period producing twice as much as the British Empire. { source Pat Buchannen in 1998 speech } With no income taxes and using Silver/Gold money. A period called the gay 90's { 1890's } also happened, which the rest of the world heard about and which also caused a tremendous influx of immigrants searching for a better life.

Yes the big bankers just like Kings and Queens and mafia bosses don't like to lose their power.

I'm an old guy and say, POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!

Ron Paul is My President!

beesting

President Andrew Jackson did solve the problem.

By getting rid of the Central bank entirely, going back to Congressional control of the Treasury, going back to Constitutionally mandated Gold/Silver money,,,,and lo and behold apparently completely wiped out the national debt of the times.

To take the power away from the central bankers we the people should be free to use any type of money that has real value, { competing currencies } among ourselves. As far as debt money there doesn't have to be any debt if producers and customers are allowed to trade among themselves internationally with honest money. { Stop all war expenditures and watch how fast our debt goes down, if no new debt is added. }

The fiat currency issued by most countries must be adjusted each time a conversion is made from one currency to another, giving central bankers another source of income because they charge a conversion fee on every exchange.

The reason we have debt at the local level is because the dollar is always depreciating, causing prices to rise just beyond the reach of most savers.
Which in turn makes big ticket items { houses, cars, small businesses } mostly dependent on a persons past credit rating in being able to get loans. { Another trick of the bankers }

In the old days most families only had one person earning a steady income. Now a days with 2,3,& 4 or more people in one family may have income, if they are good paying jobs, they might be able to save enough to buy a big ticket item without borrowing at all.

During the Gold standard days prices actually went down over about a 130 year period. So, just imagine if my family or yours could save about one ounce of Gold per month and houses and cars are still priced in depreciating dollars, our saved Gold would appreciate and eventually equal the value of a house or car.

In the last 8 years my families Gold savings have tripled in dollar value while our dollar denominated assets have lost dollar value.

beesting

first time watching Money Masters.

Not sure why it took me so long to see this(Money Masters). As I have seen almost every other video. This solidifies my disgust for the greedy central bankers and any body working in there favor. This just adds to my drive to do everything to get rid of them. They gotta go. My god...that was so well done.

These Are Fallacies

There is a fallacy in this argument. The whole "money as debt" crowd are to be congratulated for being anti-Fed. That's better than 98% of the country. But they peddle this fallacy: the Fed buys debt when it creates money, but it doesn't create enough money to pay back the interest on the debt. Therefore it has to create more money, and more debt, and more money, and we're all slaves.

This is simply untrue. Suppose the Fed creates $50 to buy a bond that has to be repaid with 10% interest (namely, $5). This group would say, "It can't be done! There's only $50, and the borrower has to pay $55! Where will the additional $5 come from?"

I'll tell you where it comes from. The fallacy is the hidden assumption that the $50 can be spent only once. But observe: I spend the $50 on groceries. The grocer spends the $50 on new inventory. The people who supply the inventory spend the $50 to pay wages. The wage-earners spend the $50 on consumption goods. Etc. So a single $50 gives rise to many, many purchases worth in total far more than $50, so there is in fact ample purchasing power to pay back the measly $5 in interest.

Nope...



What you are describing is a game of musical chairs (in monetary terms), where when the music stops playing, then someone (some money) goes and finds a new seat.

But because the actual money supply is always systematically less than the total debt obligations plus the added interest on those obligations together, then this necessarily means that you have less money in circulation than you have debt ... always...

So while your $50 can be spent multiple times, what it is being exchanged for each time along the way does not ever alleviate the fact that some other additional money needs to also makeup for the existence of the $10 of interest that was also introduced and is still obligated and is still owed (to someone).

So, "The Money Masters" correctly points out that this is a totally corrupt ponzi scheme that necessarily produces a society (in which we live) where too few dollars are chasing too much debt -- thus, the American public will always...always...play out this role of a rat on a treadmill unable to catch-up with the ever-expanding debt, and some segment of the population will be necessarily falling behind (manifested as a lower standard of living, defaults, bankruptcy, increased resource competition).

Now, the point here is that just a gold standard by itself is not addressing all the self-generating or auto-generated pyramiding interest imposed by this current corrupt system and by fractional reserve banking. You can change the currency all that you want to (to gold backed, or silver backed), but unless that currency is first and foremost debt-free currency (and that is the real key here), then the same dynamics will still occur. We will still either have to create or borrow additional money, or some segment of the population becomes insolvant or economically injured. So the whole control mechanism that favors big business over the rest of society will still persist, and the people will still inevitably fall behind economically (unnecessarily).
__

Simply put, we must go back and do what Andrew Jackson did, and also what Lincoln did (with Greenbacks to finance the Civil War without plunging the Nation into massive debt then), or what Kennedy had tried to do (Executive order E11,110) -- that is to have debt-free money creation, with no usury, and without the Banking Elites regulating the Country's money supply for their own profit. That change is far, far, far more significant than whether the money is paper-based, or redemable in a commodity to some level. You have to fix the auto-debt-generaton.

Until you remove the debt-driven nature of our current system (as prescribed by "The Money Masters"), nothing will really get better - and it will still be a corrupt system, with inevitable imposed "losers".



What you're saying sounds logical but it's not actually correct.

G. Edward Griffin explained it best:
"This is a partial truth. It is true that there is not enough money created to include the interest, but it is a fallacy that the only way to pay it back is to borrow still more. The assumption fails to take into account the exchange value of labor. . . . . "

http://www.freedom-force.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=m...

http://kidsresourcecenter.org
Fun, educational projects to inspire young minds...

Actually, it is correct.



G. Edward Griffen's explanantion is not really adequate, because we are dealing in the Trillions of dollars here. There is no exchange of labor that can repay all that outstanding debt, and what you are left with is just additional scarcity and additional competition for resources (if not insolvency). For example, he describes taking a "part-time job" to wax floors for the Bank. Well, what if 3 million people have debt to repay? Inevitably there is a scacity of resources and insolvency that is produced by this type of system, because it is ubiquitous and it effects everybody all at once (whether they know it or not). The whole system is in a state of massive debt at the scope of Trillions of dollars, and there is no exchange of labor that can just make that go away.

The other thing you have to consider here is what the Banker's themselves said about Abraham Lincoln's Greenback monetary policy. They said:

"If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks]... should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous beyond precedent in the history of the world.

The brains and wealth of all countries will go to North America. That government must be destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe."

--The London Times, 1865

Now, that is direct evidence that the Greenback monetary model is what the Banker's themselves feared the most, because they had absoluetly no control over it, and no profit obtained from it, and all their vested power would then totally disappear.

The Goldsmiths/Rothschilds/Bankers can still control and manipulate commodities, as they have for Centuries, and as they did prior to the convenience of paper-money. We see even today, the price of Gold and Silver held artificially low, and short-sell tactics and Central Bank manipulations used to rig and distort the price of Gold. But the Bankers have no ability to exert any influence or control or manipulations over publically-generated, debt-free money that is completely out of the reach of the hands of the corrupt Private Monopolies.

__

So yes, this is, in fact, what worries the Banker's the most, as it takes away all their power, hence, it is, in fact, the correct and proper solution to the problem.

It is also the Constitutional model. The United States Constitution says and prescribes that only the Congress shall regulate the money supply and fix its weights and value (Article I, Section 8).
That is the Jeffersonian model.
That is total Independence.



Wait a minute LibertyBaby, me, my kids, & grandkids,,,

,,,and millions of other blue collar Americans didn't create that trillions of dollars of national debt, used to fight un-necessary wars, bail out banking firms and insurance companies that made bad investments, pay billions in executive bonuses, pay for un-necessary alphabet agencies that make us less free, payoff legislators that are a party to the scams, etc. etc. why should we be asked to pay it back???

But here's another way of looking at it; If the dollars since 1971 are un-constitutional, they are actually counterfeit dollars, therefore if you or I had been passing counterfeit dollars for 38 years and suddenly got caught, what would happen to us?

Also, once it was discovered that the money we were putting into circulation was counterfeit what would be the "VALUE" of it? Zero??

Let me guess! After declaring bankruptcy and defaulting on all our debts,,,we would go to jail for a long, long time.

beesting

Grandkids, etc.



Your grandkids, etc. will be better off with a debt-free monetary system, that is regulated by a non-profit institution - which will not only eliminate the debt based economy, but the money supply will also remain far more stable without the pyramiding, spiraling debt generation that we have now.

But there are only three ways of dealing with the current debt:

1. Print money (which itself creates new debt .. so this really doesn't work in the long run, and it also causes inflation)

2. Borrow money (which itself creates new debt, see #1)

3. Declare bankruptcy (which would piss off all our foreign creditors and force us back into #1)

Those are the options. None of them can work, because they all lead to new debt generation by design (just the way the Central Bankers wanted it to work).

So, for the sake of your kids, grandkids, we have to cut out the profiteering from the system, in order to free ourselves from runaway public debt, and economic enslavement.

That means, doing what the Banker's don't want more than anything else, the Greenback solution. We need to cut them out of the equation (and that includes their worldwide Gold manipulations as well).

Greenbacks are the way.
In fact, a whole political Party grew up in the late 1800s in an attempt to advance the Greenback solution.

There are a few more options.

1. Eliminate legal tender laws to allow competing private money.

2. devalue the dollar way down.

3. re-value Gold way,way, up.

4. let the big bankers default.

beesting

I kinda wonder about the

I kinda wonder about the accuracy of Money Masters since they got so many of the historical quotes wrong. Of the several I checked only one was partially right.

Thomas Jefferson said, "And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies."

But the quote attributed to Jefferson, involving inflation and deflation is wrong - those words didn't even come along till much, much later.

money is a product

and as long as there is a monopoly over it, abuse of that position will happen.

competing currencies is what I favor.

I heard about that movie in the 1970s…

…when we were fighting the Fed. But I never have seen it.

—Cliff in Sioux City, Iowa

If you remember anything, remember the throw-away tools of war.

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That's the beauty of having

That's the beauty of having competing currencies... You could trade with debt-free money, gold, silver, debt-money, paper, or peanuts... It doesn't matter because it's your choice.

We need the freedom to choose money. Period.

I'm pro-choice when it comes to money.

Let the Fed Monetize their debt.

Who cares about the dollar(FRN)? It was hijacked be the Fed long ago.
If you have a mortgage or any debt remember, hyperinflation is great for the value of that debt, as long as you have your money in gold and silver.

We need to start our own commodity backed currency as Dr. Paul suggests and as the Lakota Bank is doing.

http://www.freelakotabank.com/

The national debt is not our debt. Most of it is interest to pay off the Fed who robbed us in the first place. Than the other majority portion of it is the for criminal military endeavors that have never defended us. The military has been forcing the fiat dollar around the world and plundering other nations resources for the sole benefit of multinational corporations.

The roads we use are mainly payed for by gas tax and our schools through property tax. We simply hardly benefit from the federal spending.

Besides the roughly 10 trillion dollars claimed to be the debt does not include the other roughly 90 trillion that the Government owes US (you and me) for paying FICA and Medicare our whole lives. We are the biggest creditor of our criminal Government.

Remember, if the Fed monetizes their debt we need to have our money safely in gold and silver.

bump

for others. I think we should put the bankers in jail and pay off the debt with the money they stole.

"We can see with our eyes, hear with our ears and feel with our touch, but we understand with our hearts."

Ed Griffin has commented on

Ed Griffin has commented on this previously. It's a good read.

http://www.freedom-force.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=m...

Let's think about it

LibertyBaby -

Thanks for bringing this up. Money Masters and other sources provide an interesting alternative to "Austrian" economic theories.

There are many alternative theories that hold so much more potential, for example Ellen Brown's "Web of Debt" is a wake up call to the real mechanics of our current monetary policy.

The one thing I want "freedom lovers" to consider is that our monetary philosophy is our greatest opportunity.

Larry

END the FED before it ENDS US

END the FED before it ENDS US

Ellen Brown

So we're going to go to the trouble of abolishing the Fed in order to have John McCain and Dennis Kucinich debase our money? Ellen Brown is a money crank. Ron Paul knows what he's talking about.

Well, that's in fact what the Constitution called for


Article I, Section 8, prescribed that the Congress regulate the money supply and control the value thereof -- not a private group (which will necessarily seek to profit from the system).

Ellen Brown

is a proponent of government controlled 100% reserve fiat too.

Money Masters - All Wrong

Money Masters gets it all wrong. Totally, absolutely dead wrong. Many of the assertions of fact are wrong, and the conclusions are wrong.

The problem is not interest. Interest is simply rent on money. It's a good thing. It's a major part of what makes free market capitalism work. Peter Schiff's father explained it very well. (Can someone post links?)

The Fed interferes with the free market by manipulating interest rates. Doing that leads to mal-investment. By keeping interest rates artificially low, the Fed allows the government to borrow far more than it could do otherwise.

Taking the money monopoly away from the Fed and giving it to Nancy Pelosi and Barnie Frank would not be a step in the right direction. Lowering the interest rates to zero would be no step at all presently, because the Federal Funds Rate is essentially zero already.

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"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

Solution is simple...

Just repeal all legal tender laws and prosecute fractional reserve banking as the fraud/counterfitting it is...problem solved

I dont get it

If we were to do what the Money Master Video suggests and pay off the national debt wouldn't then we be giving trillions of dollars to these jerks that ripped us off in the first place? I say we do exactly what the video suggests but any bonds that were bought by the fed -we deny payment to them and then prosecute everybody involved. What are the Rockefellers and Rothchilds going to do about it? They dont have an army but we do!