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Should the U.S. become a fully Socialist Country?

Should the U.S. become a fully Socialist Country?
The U.S. is clearly developed into a semi-socialistic country. Welfare, Social Security, Public Education, government controls over personal property and personal behavior are all examples of socialism by our government already. With socialist like Hillary or Barrack (universal health care, income redistribution, strict controls of business, etc.) poised to become President and Nancy Pelosi controlling the Congress, should the U.S. fully commit to becoming a socialized government and economy like much of Europe. This would be a fundamental change in the theoretical structure of our government where the government is supposed to work for the people. A socialized government focuses on the good of the people as a whole and does not place as great as importance on the rights on an individual. China is more extreme example of a government having a great deal of control of its citizens’ lives. Please say why you do or don’t favor the U.S. becoming a socialist country.

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Socialism or communism

has failed everywhere it was tried. The health care and welfare systems start out well. But in the end, both health and welfare become too expensive, because too many people make the CHOICE not to work. They abuse the system.

For example, pregnant teens get an apartment and total financing. Some have a baby, and keep having them, just for the income. Recall 13 year old father, both families on welfare. Remember the recent mom who has 8 babies plus the other 6 she has already, and does not work. Welfare often goes on for generations. THIS is reality. Their health care is also FREE. Why not? It is all FREE. HMMM

Socialism depends on your taxes to keep all the government programs running. The working middle class cannot keep carrying the load for those who choose not to work. WHY? More people on the plan and LESS people paying taxes.

Greed and wanting something for nothing destroys what could be a good thing.

The problem with socialism is -

that you eventually run out of other peoples money.

what do you mean should.. we

what do you mean should.. we have been there!

"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson

I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain

I think it's funny that you're asking...

It's as if you believe we actually have a choice in the matter.

Decisions have already been made, are in the process of being made and will be made in the future securing a 'socialist republic'. This is something that they probably sat around in Bulgaria discussing just before it was absorbed into the union.

You have no say in the matter. Prepare.

I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...

I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...

No, but we've been marching down that road to serfdom for

generations.
_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."

_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."

We should divide the country......

We should have those who don’t HEAR the words that Obama is really saying and those who want to maintain some freedom, stand by the Constitution and work for a living. Capitalism is a good thing, more government is not. Obama was a BAD idea. Businesses are afraid to expand or not lay off people because no one knows what he will do next. I have gone five years without health and do not believe I am owed heath care by anyone except working hard to be able to pay for it. They say they will leave people in homes they can’t afford. What about those of us who had leave there homes after 13 years in them because we could no longer afford it. A home is not owed to you. You work for it. Local Governments will now be given more money to spend as they want if they sign up more people for welfare. Obama wants us depended on him. I went back to college and the younger generation that I have spoken with all feel they are owed something and that Obama will get them a house, a car etc. I don’t want to live in a country where people don’t want to work for a living. Maybe Oprah should have a salary cap. How about everyone gets an Obama watch a house. I could use a $30,000 watch and a 1.65 Milion Dollar home that would be sweet!

What is this a poll?

in favor of Obama or Hillary---we are supporting Ron Paul, that should answer your rather weird question.

PROUSA

"People's Republic of United States of America"

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"No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal
rights of another, and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him." --Thomas Jefferson

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Libertas, Pax, Prosperitas

Current system is a circle leading nowhere!

Truely Conservative government - A problem arises, people come together to elect representatives to resolve the problem, representatives come together to resolve the problem - the problem is solved - the representatives go home.
Current government - A problem arises, elected representatives discuss the problem - decide to study the problem - hire "specialists/friends" to come up with answers" - problem becomes worse - someone sues the government - lawyers/friends are hired to defend the government - government loses - taxpayers pay the bill - problem still not solved - election time comes around - representatives promise to solve the problem - new representative gain office and raise salary - also decide to further study the problem - hire new "specialists/friends" to come up with answers - problem becomes worse - someone sues the government...................

Oh yea, the "problem" I was refering to was a pothole on the road.

Because I am more important than any group.

________________

Good luck to us all,

Lisa C.

www.women4ronpaul.com

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

We aren't..

... already?

Socialism doesn't imply that the govt pays for every aspect of your life. It means the govt actively uses it power to manipulate and guide the people in a society at the level of their everyday lives...

Sooner rather than later

Yes, after seeing the American public and their reaction to the Ron Paul campaign, we should become as socialist as possible as fast as possible.

The reason...the direction that we are headed without a lifeline is a complete and total collapse of our economy and a lost sense of who we are as a nation. If the people can't trust a man who is honest to a fault and willing to tell us how much peril we are in, we're lost.

My hope in socialism jumping up and overtaking this nation is we will finally see the error of our ways when the system collapses under it's own weight. It won't work, and anyone who is a true believer in the free market knows that.

The advantage to a quick demise is, we will still have pieces of a generation that clings to the values that define America. The few people in the country who cling to these values will be the one's who can return us to our roots and rebuild this nation, and rededicate ourselves to maintaining control over our government.

Government should be a servant of the people, and either the people enslave the government or it will enslave them.

Maybe the 2018-2020 collapse

Maybe the 2018-2020 collapse is too late. Maybe Obama will transform America into a european look-alike nation where taxes are hyper high, everything is "free", most universities are public, welfare state is everywhere, centralism and political correctness dominates all parties... and nobody dares to challenge the system. This system actually works in some european countries and people seems to be happy about it.

I think that the social-democratic model is un-american but maybe Obama will succeed convincing people. If he does, prepare for a massive criminalization of free market principles. It already happens in Europe

Look East

You know the answer.

--
Remember: Debt is a form of slavery.

If you do that...

.. in the morning be sure and have your sunglasses handy..

=P

and

a clean windshield sure helps. :O)

MInarchism doesn't rule, it allows people to rule.

I wouldn't consider Ron Paul an Archist nor an Anarchist. I believe a better way to describe him would be a Minarchist.

It already IS a fully

It already IS a fully "socialist" country and we don't have any choice in the matter.

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good things is my religion. Thomas Paine Godfather of the American Revolution)

Yup..

... "soft-fascism" as Dr. Paul puts it.

Here you go trolls

Radio interview of some good points : Look for Monday KNARR March 17th : http://mp3.rprradio.com/1...
KEEP THIS BUMPED EVERY DAY PLEASE!
IMPORTANT : YOU PEOPLE NEED TO IGNORE THE POSTS FROM JHL - SLAPSHOT AND WRELLIM BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT THE HELL THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.
You must become a delegate now call your county chairman and if they say your timeline is passed become an alternate delegate they are just as important.
I was an administrator for the Democratic party for over 6 years and i am well educated in the nomination process, I left the party to support Dr. Paul so i know what i am talking about.
Our founding fathers set the system up like this to assure that we would not have false or fruadulent support for a candidate thus forcing THE PEOPLE to become involved in the election process and to show actual support for thier candidate.
They wanted to make sure they would protect us from VOTE FRAUD and to make sure that a candidate did not win a beauty contest but instead win an election.
Any candidate and thier supporters can do exactly what we are doing if they chose to do so and i am sure from the reports we have received that Mccain does not have real support or he would have the delegates he needs registered as delegates to vote for him in the up coming convention.
If you doubt my post go and research it yourself PLEASE here : http://www.gop.com/images...
PLEASE EVERYONE COPY AND SEND THIS TO THIER EMAIL LIST AND MEETUP HEADS AND ANY OTHER RON PAUL FORUM THERE IS.
If you can be a delegate because it is too late to register you can still help us at the convention.
Use these 2 links and help us win.
Link : http://www.gopconvention....
Link # 2 : http://msp2008.com/volunt...
I know many of you are new to the election process but don't worry.
I am going to go into some depth of how this all works so read and then read again if you need to.
Did you know that the delegates can actually vote to unbind thier delegates that are bound by state rules?
Did you know that delegates can actually overturn and previous vote?
Did you know the delegates have control of the entire process?
The MSM is not reporting how to become the nominee in a situation like this so i will tell you to stop getting your info from the MSM.
I know many of you are bummed about Dr. Paul not getting more votes in the states popular vote BUT THAT IS BECAUSE YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW THE ELECTION SYSTEM WORKS : Let me explain to you the reality of how to become the nominee.
First stop looking at who wins each states popular vote for most of these states the vote by the people is really nothing but a straw poll and have no real bearing on who will become the nominee. The only way this matters is if 1 person receives 1191 delegates that are bound by state rules to be commited to that candidate. So if a candiate like Mccain now has 906 delegates now but he doesn't reach 1191 WHICH HE WILL NOT most of the delegates the state awarded him mean nothing and keep in mind in most of the states most of the people that represent the 906 for Mccain are actually Ron Paul supporters. NOW there is no possible way that anyone in the race can achieve this goal now because of the major split in state wins by the candidates.
Normally Convention Delegates do not matter because the convention is not brokered and we have a clear winner because someone has 1191 delegates. BUT THIS YEAR IS DIFFERENT. This will be a brokered convention there is no way around it. Do you see how the ronpaul campaign strategy will work.
When a candidate wins delegates by winning a primary that does not mean there are actual people that won acting as delegates- these are virtual delegates.
What do I mean by virtual delegates: A virtual delegate is just a number - there are no actual people YET that will go and vote for the candidate who won the particular state at the national convention. We call these people convention delegates
The actual delegates are voted on (in most states) at a statewide delegate caucus after the Primary (which is just a giant preference poll) Who can be delegates? Anyone. In closed Primary states they must be registered Republicans, in Open Primary states they can be Republicans, Democrats, Independents.
View the hard count of actaul pledged delegates here : http://www.thegreenpapers...
And we have lots of delegates.
Out of the 2,380 delegates sent to Minneapolis St. Paul in September-
-463 delegates are bound all the way through the convention some of those 463 are Ron Pauls people.
- 565 delegates will be bound through one ballot. That is, they have to follow the results of the state election on the first ballot. After that, if no candidate has a majority of delegates, they are free to vote as they please and Mccain will not receive over 50% on the first ballot.
- 383 will be bound through two ballots then they are free to vote for whom they wish.
- 318 will be bound through three ballots then they are free to vote for whom they wish.
I am not going to list every state and what the break downs are, just do the math from these numbers or look for yourself here :
http://www.gop.com/Images...
Bottom line is less than 1/2 of the delegates are bound by state party rules. Now do you see how we can win this thing?
So what happens now you ask? You look at the number of delegates that Dr. Paul has that are uncommited to the other candidates and will support him. these delegates are not decided by the popular vote ie: straw poll of the people. Since no one will have enough delegates to skate them through to the nomination we now must look at how many delegates NOT VOTES but delegates Dr. Paul has that are 100% uncommited to the other candidates and will be 100% for Dr. Paul and are free to vote for whom they wish.
This race will go all the way to the convention for there is no other way for someone to receive the nomintaion untill the convention.
The RNC will convene its annual Winter Meeting - and voters will continue to cast their ballots in the nation's primaries and caucuses. Candidates for delegate and alternate delegate to the convention will be elected - and thousands of convention participants and guests will begin planning their trips to Minneapolis-Saint Paul The first week in September 2008
SO WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN?
This means that all of the people that registered to become a deligate for Dr. Paul can go to the convention and cast thier vote for Dr. Paul, now think about what i just said : Do you think for one second that all the people that voted for Dr. Paul and filed to become a deligate will not show up at the convention to vote for the good Doctor? Of course they will just like they battled the rain and the sleet and the 15 below zero winter weather to knock on doors and wave signs spreading our message.
Now i assure you that even though we didn't win the popular vote in many states WE DID PICK UP THE MAJORITY OF DELEGATES THAN ALL THE OTHER CANDIDATES IN MOST EVERY STATE EXCEPT A FEW. So yes they won the straw poll and we won what counts which is delegates.
Doesn't Dr. Paul need to WIN 5 states to be on the ballot at the convention for the nomination?
NO THIS IS NOT TRUE for people were just confused on how it actually works.
We only need the majority of delegates from 5 states to be put on the ballot NOT THE POPULAR VOTE OF 5 STATES and i assure you we have picked up the majority of uncommitted delegates for Dr. Paul in more than 5 states.
Do any of you remember seeing posts by myself and many others that said BECOME A DELEGATE? There is still time in most states to become a delegate for the convention and we are picking up more of them every day.
So please STOP! you worry too much because you do not understand how the election system works and you thought we lost didn't you? I assure you we have not!
The fact is Dr. Paul is a genius in his strategy and we are further ahead in delegates than you think and we can win the nomination.
I hope this gives a better understanding of how we have been winning even though most of you thought we were not.
NOW LET'S KEEP WORKING FILE TODAY AND BECOME A DELEGATE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!
Learn the language of the convention A must read for all : www.robertsrules.org
Info on how to become a delegate here :
http://www3.webng.com/ron...
Dr. Steve Parent

Because of...

the example of the ordinary, #2 pencil.

Can you elaborate on that

Can you elaborate on that rather cryptic response?

Thought you'd never ask (:-<>)

The late economist Milton Friedman ( I think) in a discourse about free enterprise vs socialism, makes the point that socialism rests on two main ideas: centralized control, and redistribution of wealth, whereas free enterprise, or what many lazily refer to as capitalism, depends on millions of people freely and independently pursuing their own self-interests, in the course of which they make billions of decisions a day. And it is this that leads to the richness we have known all these years, a richness that centralized control and redistribution of wealth cannot come close top duplicating.

Just think about the #2 pencil... It has a machined wooden shaft made of two pieces, that have to be carefully glued together. Inside them is a piece of perfectly molded graphite (the "lead"), then the yellow paint on the wooden shaft must be applied, then metallized lettering imprinted on that, the brass ferrule that crimps the eraser on top is next, and then of course the rubber eraser itself.

Not only did all these materials have to come together in one place at one time for that pencil to exist, but all of the machinery, (also made up of many parts), that formed the pencil's graphite, wood, ferrule, finishing and eraser had to be fabricated. And we're still not done. All that stuff had to be harvested in the first place, and shipped to the factory, the construction of which we haven't even begun to consider....

But I think the point is made. If it was up to a committee of central planners and redistributionists to come up with even the lowly pencil, it could never happen. And that's just one of millions of products and services we once enjoyed at reasonable cost.

Now, each part in that vast array was made at some point by people who will never know each other, people who in the course of their contribution to the final product were simply pursuing their own self interests. Yet somehow, in a majestically "mysterious" way, it all comes together.

Those who advocate socialism, or any kind of collectivism, understand their system cannot match free enterprise, but they don't care, because their agenda is about one thing: seizing power. Let's remember the pencil the next time somebody brings up the wretched nonsense of socialism.

Ironic

'cause it's actually hard to buy a #2 pencil here in China. Dunno why, I just can't seem to find 'em.

Very cool

Good example.

******************************
The Virtual Conspiracy

Thanks, Say Yes...

I read that a long time ago, but forgot it.... Long before I realized I was a freedom minded patriot ala Ron Paul.

...let it not be said that we did nothing.
-Ron Paul

You're all welcome.

Glad I could do my little bit. I hate it that we're lied to so much these days, and most of the time the lies go unchallenged. That's part of what this movement needs to stand against

It already is

can you prove to me that it is not?

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"the only thing that keeps the banking system from failing is general ignorance about how the banking system works."
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Um NO

You have to be kidding....LOL

We have had an ever increasing amoun of socialism in the US since the days of FDR post WWII, and with the current crop of candidates (except RP) we are certain to have socialism even more entrenched into our society; national socialized medicine, pre-care, global carbon tax etc. The words "progressive" and "neocon" sound so much nicer to our ears than socialist. 6 of this, half dozen of the other. "Socialist" has a stigma to it, especially to cold war older types....as well it should!

I read an interesting online article recently that stated that while socialism is an economic system under which people are still "paid by the deed" it generally leads to a political sysytem of totalitarian rule or communism under which the needs of the state reign supreme ergo people are paid "by the need". (no time frame stated) It is perhaps our arrogance that causes us to somehow believe that we can transition to socialism without the nasty "totalitarian rule" or "needs of the state are more important than needs of the individual" parts of the equation that are born of it.