The economic crisis timetable...here's your chance to say when/what will happen!
Submitted by usefreedomwell on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 20:42
We keep hearing Ron Paul and Peter Schiff discuss the inevitable economic crisis.....then those who have really done their research, post here and tell us what you think will happen along with a timetable...are we looking at months, two years, five years for the dollar to get to .50 or .10 or what? Noone knows the future, but buying precious metals with little money is a tough thing to decide when you don't know when or if the dollar will disappear altogether. What's next....the euro? the amero? Peter Schiff said he didn't think the amero will happen. Informed and educated ronpaulers, share your thoughts!
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The only prediction
I have is the expanded powers to be given to the FEDs will not correct anything. Did they give it a clever name too like the PPT, like the BPT(short for bailout protection team). Let's see the have the power to print the money, tax for payment of interest to debt, devalue the currancy, manipulate the stock market, and precious metals, play with interest rates--but wait the answer to the mess they made--is they need MORE power. Now our the citizens, and several generations beyond are going to bail out the very people owning the banks that own the Federal Reserve. Can anyone say conflict of interest, or illegal? Retail prices, gold, silver,houses,oil, stock market, the dollar? The only one that can make those predictions now will be the ones that control it all if allowed. Russia or China may look like a more attractive option if anyone is thinking about coming over here if they have their way with the new plan.
Too many unknowns now...
It used to be pretty easy to predict... 3rd quarter 2008 was on the slate as of 4 years ago. That is where all the lines connected..lol. Now who knows? Data is being hidden/flubbed, the Fed's new powers will enable them to easily overwrite any real market corrections. That it will fail is pretty much a given, as it has to. When? Who knows now, as they have bought some more time to make it all that much worse later.
They are fleecing the sheeple now.. and will keep it going as long as possible for maximum profit.
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
"Guaranteed" home heating cost monthly bill
Yesterday, I received a snail-mail letter from Nicor, the gas supplier for my suburban Chicago community (it used to be Northern Illinois gas, so it supplies gas to many communities).
"In just the last 4 months, the Nicor Gas price of gas (GSC) has increased from 65 cents (Dec) to 97 cents (March); an increase of nearly 50%"
The company is offering "Lock 12" that locks your gas bill at one set amount for 12 consecutive months.
Note the guarantee: "The bill is guaranteed not to change regardless of fluctuations in the price of natural gas or weather".
Not that I'm becoming cynical, but these thoughts immediately came to mind:
1. This is the equivalent of *prepaying* gas costs, since we're moving out of winter usage levels, which means Nicor can invest those funds (in the stock market??) for a possible additional source of revenue.
2. This feels like "insurance" that may or may not exist in 6 months.
3. What happens if natural gas costs skyrocket in the next few months and Nicor cannot pass those costs on to Lock 12 subscribers? Do the non-subscribers have their rates go up twice as fast? On that basis, should I subscribe?? Or does Nicor go out of business?
4. What happens to those *prepayments*, if Nicor does go out of business/gets bought out?
5. What happens to those *prepayments*, if the person sells or loses the property? Will there be a refund? Hah. How likely is that?
6. What happens if usage increases, because multiple families are sharing the same property vs. single family during determination year?
7. Can people afford to increase their cash outlay much more now to (possibly) minimize significant jumps in cash outlay later?
Betcha it's based on your maximum use history
which is weather variable. Interesting gamble. I wonder if they are trying to be helpful or trying to get paid now before it gets worse and few pay the bills at all in favor of eating.
Another $19B
Not a prognostication, but an observation of the phenomenon:
UBS to Write Down Another $19 Billion
Quick quotes:
PARIS — UBS, the largest Swiss bank, said Tuesday that it would write down another $19 billion related to the American real estate market and said that its chairman, Marcel Ospel, would step down.
(...)
The news came as the biggest German lender, Deutsche Bank, warned Tuesday that market conditions “have become significantly more challenging during the last few weeks,” and said it expected to write about 2.5 billion euros, or $3.9 billion, on real estate loans and assets from the United States.
Whatever forecasts any of us make here, I expect the time line for financial events is being very quickly sped up.
I copied and pasted the headlines from the aol financial page
Bank News, Economic Data Boost Stocks
Manufacturing Sector Contracts in March
Construction Spending Falls in February
Ford's US Sales Down 14 Percent in March
Oil Gyrates After Dip Below $100
Congress Has Big Questions for Big Oil
UBS Will Write Down $19 Billion
How in the hell can line one be justified? Lines 2-7 are horrible news.
Answer: the Fed (illegal privately owned bank) is sucking in even more of the ignorant. Remember, the media is the puppet.
See video-
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gUkbdjetlY8
Bear Stearns was bought for rock bottom price by JPMorgan (partner of the Fed) with Fed help.
In short, JPM got free money from it's parent company to buy a competitor that was crucified by the Feds tactics.
Yahoo's Finance links 3 hours ago
As of 9:45 a.m. CDT
• UBS Writes Off $19 Billion
• Deutsche Bank Expects $4B Subprime Hit
• Home Building Tumbles for 24th Month
• UBS, Lehman Plans Spark Rally
• Trim Your Dinner Bill by 50%: 6 Ways to Dine Out...
Presumably, the UBS, Lehman "plans" are what was "boosting" stocks.
Regarding "6 Ways to Dine Out", is anyone doing that anymore? Or, if so, is it the local charity?
Deleted dup
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Well since Ron Paul wont win like they say,
I am going all in! I just went in $140k. Its all or nothing for me now.
Not! April Fools.....Have a nice day.
One can only predict the value of the US Dollar will vanish.
The powers above (World Bank/IMF) are pulling all of the strings that control the dollar. Since they are the Federal Reserve, any tactics they imploy are for their benefit, not ours.
As I have said in other post, insert the words "illegal privately owned bank" for Federal Reserve, and the truth is evident. If they continue to add dollars into circulation, wich decreases the worth of the dollar, how will they benefit?
Do not for one second believe the Fed is out of control. When someone says how did the Fed let this happen? The answer is; they made it happen. If the World Bank/IMF does in fact own the majority of the worlds gold, then they also control that price. If the Fed has tied the dollar to oil, and also owns the oil transporttation and refineries, then they control the price of oil also.
I agree that the dollar should be tied to some sort of commodity stored in a vault, but what commodity? If Fort Knox is presumed to be empty, then gold is out. Silver is abundant, and probably the safest bet to tie a dollar to, and to invest.
I have to slightly disagree with RP that a fiat currency cant work, it's more of an issue that some tyrant or banker has forced it not to work. I think Lincolns green back would do fine. If Americans have survived nearly 100 years on paper money that has been devalued to just .04, then American can survive on a government owed paper currency that would remain stable.
Will the Feds crash the economy, probably. When, whenever its right for them. Can America rebound? Sure, its just going to take a while. We have lived it up like they did in the roaring 20's, borrowed and spent while sending our manufacturing jobs overseas.
The upside to all of this is that there could be immediate solutions.
1) Get Ron Paul elected, and sit back and get educated
2) Abolish the Fed, and expose the owners of the Fed and confiscate all of the gold they have stolen. Did I mention imprisonment?
3) Print new US Government Dollars, and exchange them with Fed dollars
4) Open up Alaskas oil
5) Slowly retract dollars out of circulation, or not print for many many years.
Our country has been completey overrun by corrupt bankers and politicians. When I hear someone say this politician or that politician did this or did that, its really a matter of a corrupt individual taking money from the banker to do their dirty work.
Our only hope is to overthrow the establishment and imprison the criminals.
Dont count on God, Allah or Muhammed to do it for you. If there was such a being, with such great powers, then why would he/she not just make this world a perfect place. Wake up!
I know
and envy many people on this board who live in communties that can help one another and have certain skills which could be used or traded...But in my situation that is not the case..
I live in an area that is more concerned about golf and kids soccer games then how to survive in a depression....
All my neighbors spend their time playing tennis, throwing elaborate parties, and taking vacations...Their children are rotten and spoiled and basically miserable and cruel...for the most part..
Nope..If this comes crashing down...My family has chosen to become very quiet about what we have..VERY QUIET..
Practice Balance
I believe that Ron Paul is correct to believe that a major economic crisis is on its way. I also believe that Edgar Cayce's prediction that catastrophic earth changes are on their way. The question is: When? Both phenomena, economic and environmental are cyclical and ultimately fractal, in that they flux in cycles within cycles within cycles. Looking forward, we tend to extrapolate the cycle we're most aware of, but we are wise not to confuse the little cycles for the big ones, lest we dedicate all our available resources unnecessarily to embrace/brace for the best/worst-case-scenario.
There seem to be lots of people on these posts affirming a worst-case-scenario, and such affirmations increase awareness of the Big Picture reality that the U.S. economy is circling the bowl. We're on our way down, but not directly down. I must admit that I actually get a rush out of these posts. I hear my inner dialogue, "Yah, man this is IT! It's coming!" And I think I get excited because I don't like the way things are. I crave social change, just like I can hardly wait for the earth's polarity to shift, triggering major earthquakes and volcanoes, maybe because I see the system is crashing and in need of rebooting, no matter how terrible the cruel reality will probably be. We tend to do things differently - and often at high personal cost - when we think everything is about to change. I speak from experience...
My point is this... Take time to wisely and practically prepare for the next 4-10 years. Don't spend all your money on precious metals that you will have to store for years and years before they're useful, or on super-hoards of food that will likely perish before you really need it. Things will get "worse", but not entirely worse by tomorrow. If anything, practice being balanced - internally balanced - despite perceived world turmoil. You will make better decisions now and be truly ready to adapt whatever the world throws your way when things actually do get "bad".
I clicked on the link you provided----
Oh My! I chuckled all the way through your article! You have a way with words, and obviously went to the "school of hard knocks"!
You have a lot of wisdom
I think you make a lot of sense.
Nice post
The one thing I might add is that owning precious metals should be akin to a savings account. Remember those? I don't mean an overdraft protection account, I mean something that you won't touch until you know in your gut that it's finally time to do something with it. I think we all have known for some time that an implosion, on many levels, is inevitable. I believe that the longer the correction is put off, the more painful it will be. But we must face the music sooner or later. I'm a big fan of Edgar Cayce.
"Know in your gut" was reached years ago
I mean something that you won't touch until you know in your gut that it's finally time to do something with it.
Individual families reached that point a couple of years ago in that "cycle".
Look at the job market since 2000-
The current "implosion" is because of the huge increase in the percentages of familes, businesses, and governments reaching that point.
Do you have children
I cannot understand anyone getting a rush if they have children/grandchildren. Nor can I understand a rush if----well, I think a period goes there.
Financial menses
I used to joke about my daughter's "Police State Middle School" not allowing outdoor playtime during lunch (for "safety" reasons). It's easy to project our worries onto our children, but they're alot more adaptable than us aging fogies. The same kind of mental plasticity that enables them to ingest manipulative state propaganda will also enable them to adapt easily to whatever crises comes our way. In fact, teenagers are almost wired to embrace dramatic events... Witness their recounting of the most mundane into high drama.
I think our role as parents is to start developing attractive alternatives to Hitler-youth type programs.
What will happen
Is already happening , people are losing their homes in droves and walking around terrified with their stuff in shopping carts wondering how they are going to stay warm tonight and how they are going to feed their kids tomorrow.This is what is happening in Michigan and Ohio right now.
I'm seing the northern impact and to be honest what I'm seeing everyday is freaking scary.
they can't even live in a tent city when you fall asleep and freeze to death so you have to keep moving.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
I know I will probably be
I know I will probably be the only one thinking this, but I actually believe this is part economical and part political. I believe everything we are saying here and what Paul argues is all good and true. However, I believe our economic troubles are largely connected to just the Iraq war and only that.
In other words, before the Bush administration's cruelty destroyed everything, we were relatively well off. I know some may argue differently, but that is why I say relatively. I would just say before Bush things were okay in the grand scheme. Bush enters and things go to hell. Actually, it wasn't even when he entered. The real destruction seemed to begin in 2003 with the the Iraq war and subsequent callous and cruel decisions by the Bush admin.
So what's my point? Everything can be brought back to the Iraq situation. Why? Because it is the one place we are overextended. Everything else we would wish not to be in this country like social programs or what not have largely been apart of the country for some time. These have been "problems" per se, but that is exactly the point: they have existed. The iraq situation is an aberration. The other problems have been apart of our country. The Iraq war doesn't exist within that dynamic. It is an aberration and an aberration that has overextended its welcome.
In fact, even throwing in the initial endeavor I could forgo in the grand scheme. In other words, the majority of the country at least felt ambivalent about the war. It wasn't a mistake yet, in a manner of speaking. However, once it became a mistake but yet continued and the cruelty and negligence of the Bush admin became undeniably clear, there we have our problem. It is that conflict between the insanity of the Bush admin and the sanity of the country (and our exhaustion of the Iraq occupation) that I believe is at the root of the current economic trouble. We are depressed as a country essentially.
We miss the point focusing on domestic issues. And the more I think about it the more I am convinced the occupation of Iraq will essentially come to a close by Obama or Clinton by the simple fact that they will have no other choice economically. The alternative for them is complete economic chaos and rioting and civil unrest. Something will be lost and the country will realign into stability or chaos depending on the next President's decision, but either way it will realign.
We are depressed nationally
That is very well put. I think you hit the nail on the head.
Also we were told by the Bush administration over and over and over again in the beginning of the Iraq war that we were not occupiers. That we would win and leave and turn it over to the Iraqies. But they saw that we were lying and that is why they keep fighting us. It was so exasperating in the beginning for me that no one would hear Bush say that we will not occupy--now, obviously, I understand why they would not hear him.
Cheap non-US labor is the primary problem
Whether it is illegal or legal aliens here or offshoring "there", salaries are dropping in the US and, worse, people are totally losing their jobs.
A law firm is even being sued for its conferences on how *not* to find "qualified Americans"!
Foreclosures are *not* just due to "stupid buyers", but are hitting people with 20 of 30 years paid on low fixed interest mortgages, but had their incomes cut in half due to cheap foreign labor competition.
I think what's happening is that the dollar
is being saved as the worlds reserve currency. The money men will soon gain total control of America’s financial system as a result… and thus the dollar-driven global financial system by default. There has been a huge effort to decouple the dollar from oil. If that happens we are all totally f'ed. We are going into Iran. I think that is a given. Free markets are dead.
Who knows what will happen. I know in Florida, a ton of Mexican have gone home. There is no work for them.
No, I understand that. What
No, I understand that. What I am saying is simply that we as a country could absorb this problem to a certain capacity. It wouldn't be as drastic and scary as it seems it may turn out to be.
What you are describing is a real problem and a result of differences in policy decisions, in opinions, and illegal behavior. The Iraq situation is simply an absolute drain on the economy and is a complete absolute 100% mistake that resulted from stupidity and cruelty.
What would US unemployment rates be if Iraq war were ended?
I totally agree that the Iraq war has been/is an ongoing disaster. However, simply ending it on whatever timetable that occurs won't solve our current economic problems.
Unintended consequences?
Please see my previous post about the systemic ramifications of terminating federal military, education, Fed, IRS,... positions. Exactly where would all of those laid off people find new work (and health insurance)?
www.dailypaul.com/node/35709#comment-308595
All of those highly qualified people would be even more competition for any job openings.
I'm sure all of you RP supporters realize that such additional "free market competition" would further depress salaries.
And it's already the depressed salaries (or no salary/income at all) that is rippling through car sales, home sales, durable goods sales, and retail sales, let alone "frivolous" things like travel and entertainment.
Given the increased cost of oil and its impact on commute costs, home heating costs, and transportation costs for businesses, people are already having to prioritize food basics!
That is not really accurate.
The military would not lose jobs, nor would the military support apparatus. If anything, I think it would boost the economy...especially in those areas around military bases. I've posted about this before...we employ thousands of foreign nationals on our bases overseas....they provide services on these bases. If we close these bases and relocate our troops back in the continental United States...all of these jobs will come with the troops. We will need services on these bases. The surrounding areas will have troops to rent houses and apartments, people to buy basic commodities, people who need services for their cars, etc etc. Try factoring this into the equation.
As far as the jobs lost for IRS agents, and those who hold down meaningless jobs in the NEA, etc....too bad. Maybe they will be able to find honest jobs as accountants, or in the case of teachers...go back to teaching. There are so many areas in the country in need of capable teachers. Take the beauracracy out of the equations and let these teachers teach.
That's my two cents anyway.
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
Do you think
It might be possible that Bush is really so stupid that he sincerely believes what he is doing is really best for the people of the world. Paul always says that people are sincere and they believe what they are doing is right. I wonder which ones of these globalists feel justified that what they are doing is right for the most people and which ones realize they are deceiving Americans on purpose to overthrow our way of life.
It's nice to believe in
It's nice to believe in people, not give up on people, and to always give people the benefit of the doubt. But Bush's record is pretty clear. If Bush is deceived, he is decieved out of his own ignorance and utter dissociation with ordinary Americans. We know very well his attitude towards the Constitution. We know very well his contempt for congress and the supreme court. George is quoted as saying to the extent that if anyone accuses him of being a globalist, then "I am guilty as charged". We all know pretty well who George Bush's friends are. You should be pretty well be sure that you or I are not counted amongst them. George feasts at the very same tables as the money masters of this world. He is not one of us. He is one of them.
Things are only impossible until they are not.
-- Jean Luc Picard
Things are only impossible until they are not.
-- Jean Luc Picard
I expect the dollar index to be right at
about 40 by mid-2009. I have bet on it in fact. As far as a genuine widespread crash (and I'm talking about widespread economic devastation), my current guess is in the 2011 period, give or take. Nobody can be truly precise on such a thing. We all have to watch day to day. One of the cues that I'm taking will be when the treasury bond market really starts to head south. The only really truthful answer I can give is: I do not really know when. An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes.
_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."
Do they have to get the dollar
down so that when they convert to the Amero, they will not have to circulate nearly as much of it as they have the dollar?