Nevada man paying in gold: IRS Helpless

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http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=6141

Ran across this article, it may have been posted before, But its a decent read. but what got me was the very last paragraph.

I would like to open it up for a bit of discussion for everyone, what do you all think :)

Edit:
Link to a more in depth story....Very nice read :)
http://www.liberty-watch.com/volume03/issue08/coverstory.php

Cyric

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The IRS expected Kahre to report his workers earnings based on the coins market value in the Federal Reserve system. Instead, he didnt report or pay anything at all because the face value of the coins fell below the reporting threshold.

Great Article!!!

I really liked the 2nd one..Link on bottom..2 Thumbs up! I wonder how he get's around the min. wage laws. Maybe this is the important "contract labor" portion of the argument.

The IRS LOST!

Many of you are missing the point here. This has been decided and the IRS lost.

Wow

Talk about bring them back from the dead, i even had forgotten i posted this...Its cool, unless this is one the forum bots...

Capital gains

Even if he gets away with declaring the ultra-low income, the IRS will demand capital gains taxes at the high "collectible" rate when he converts the gold to FRN's to buy stuff. And they have the handcuffs and prisons.

what happens if the price of

what happens if the price of gold goes down 10 bucks by the time he leaves the employers to the coin shop?! capital loss? then again you only get 1099'd with a one ounce coin. you can sell fraction coins for cash and no one would know!

"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson

I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain

“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)

Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐

you mean his employees.

True.

However, alls you have to do is cash in your gold slowly, and on an as-needed basis. Bury the rest, and there's your inflation-proof savings bank/college fund/rainy day cache/retirement money.

Paying in Gold

My question is how does the company account for the loss on the gold coin. It has to first buy the coin to pay the worker. If they don't somehow show a loss on that they have to pay taxes on it.

It's a toss-up for the

It's a toss-up for the company. The employee's labor costs the same whether he takes his payment in FRN's, gold, or pelts.

Now, for a moment, imagine

Now, for a moment, imagine the bureaucratic chaos if a few hundred thousand, or better yet a million people suddenly filed W4 Termination forms.

http://d.scribd.com/docs/11y7znx4zwde14b6vpfw.pdf

http://www.1776solution.blogspot.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre (1886-1912)

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes

If you are a small business owner...

or an employee this is the way to stop feeding the beast, and playing into their corrupt system. Here is the last sentence in the linked article::

"One Nevada businessman may have found a way to bring the system crashing down -- he has begun paying employees in those $50 Gold Eagle coins, making their annual salaries well below the threshold for even having to file tax returns. So far, the IRS is helpless to stop it".

Ask your Employer to pay you in Gold, or Silver, if you are an Employer ask your Employees if they would consider being paid in face value in Gold or Silver, then all they have to do is go and exchange it. What better way than to keep your hard earned money for yourself, and your family, and the good of the economy. Wow we will have more to spend, won't that be a lift to the economy.

I can see it with independent contractors,

but if you pay an employee with a $20 coin thats worth $800 and then enough frns to make up for the extra $200 or so for minimum wage. You're killing yourself.

Under the table and you can do it. I'd love to take it and pay with it exclusively but the logistics ae a nightmare.

RE: So.Nevada Businessman Robert"bobby"Kahre & the IRS

Interesting read,try and take a $50.00 gold certificate series 1922 and get $50.00 in gold at the Bank Or Fed.Reserve Bank--Good Luck,what you will get back is $50.00 in Federal Reserve Notes.worthless by comparison.
ATTENTION: Everone reading this comment: Google the story of Attorney Tom Cryer case with the IRS,you will love it. HE WON AGAINST THE IRS.His argument was "WAGES" are not taxable because wages are an exchange for labor,one equals the other,therefore no gain,no tax.Wages is not income .Profit on the sale of an item or Capital gains on bonds,stocks or houses etc. would be taxable,due to a gain in PROFIT.
Makes a hell of a lot of sense to me.

The IRS acts like they are an enforcement of law unto themselves,they are not.If you do some more research,the tax code,rules ,regulations are not law,just rules and regulations.The tax code says paying TAXES IS VOLUNTARY! Imagine that! VOLUNTARY--this was all set up in 1913 when the FEDERAL RESERVE BANK was set up.sounds impressive doesn't it. The Federal Reserve Bank is privately owned,nothing to do with the Federal Government. Just like Federal Express has nothing to do with the Fed.Gov't.either.The Federal Reserve Bank is privately owned by the likes of:The Rothechilds,Warbergs,Lehman & Loeb,Goldman & Sachs ,The Bilderbergers and others,They CONTROL the money supply.It was one of the aforemention names that said;"Let them make all the laws they want,who ever controls the money controls the U.S.A." words to that effect.They are all pushing for the New World Order,former Presidents of the USA as well,all Socialists,Carter,Bush the elder,Bush ,Jr.just to name a few,there are many more former Presidents in the same boat! Don't forget the "National I.D.Card" a forerunner to the "seal" that is spoken about,without either,it is set up that you cannot hold a job,have a bank account,buy or sell etc.

Check into the Council on Foreign Relations,The Illuminati,The Trilateral Commission Check out who are members of these Organizations all involved in Subverting the USA into the New World Order.

Then there is the "Antichrist" but that is another story.

Thanks for reading,please pass on the Attorney Tom Cryer IRS story to those you know would be interested in reading it.

Thanks,

Sparksnavy

Senator Harry Reid has

Senator Harry Reid has confirmed that paying income taxes is voluntary. The video is on YouTube.

...

The Tom Cryer case

is also on Youtube.

"Then there is the

"Then there is the "Antichrist" but that is another story."

Only need to remember two things on this guy.

You want nothing to do with him!

and, he comes first

this is why I visit the DP.

this is why I visit the DP. Excellent comment.

must read

Cracking the Code, this book talks about this very subject. The tax part, not the conspiracy stuff. Not saying I don't believe btw.

http://losthorizons.com/

And no, I'm not a spammer. I make no money from this at all.

bump

Bump for the sunday crowd this is fun to read stuff :p

I love it~!

I love it! Wow this is huge, we already have competing currencies. We need to spread the word on this

-----
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death. Patrick Henry

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

One possible hazard..

If you pay your employees in gold coin as the article describes, they might be able to hose you on the minimum wage.

If you give an employee a $50 gold piece (worth several hundred bucks), is the face value of the coin, or the number of fiat dollars it's worth the basis for determining if you're in compliance with the minimum wage?

-jcr

"The problem with trying to child-proof the world, is that it makes people neglect the far more important task of world-proofing the child." -- Hugh Daniel

You're right, but there are work-arounds

The employee could be given a salary instead of an hourly wage. Or wages could be made in a combination of FRNs and gold coin, the total adding up to the legal minimum wage. Or the worker might be able to "quit" and then return to work as an independent contractor,

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.larkenrose.com/store/34-books/2019-the-most-dange...

The IRS

just came out with a MEMO not a law that if you pay in gold or silver that it should reflect market value on your taxes, Screw them

Link?

What memo? What's your source? Is it more recent than March 8, 2008? Did you check out the link in my comment, immediately below this one?

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.larkenrose.com/store/34-books/2019-the-most-dange...

Another article, and a few more ideas

A much more recent decision, and even better news: http://www.restoretherepublic.com/content/view/807/
This article contains a letter opinion from the IRS that using gold and silver coins at face value is legal! You ARE legally required to report a capital gain when you exchange your gold/silver coins for FRNs, but note that you don't have to pay Social Security or Medicare or any other payroll tax on capital gains, so even if your first move after receiving your gold wages was to sell the coins for FRNs, you would save an enormous amount of taxes. But it gets even better if you DON'T exchange your coins for FRNs, but instead spend them buying goods and services from other people who, like you, would like to minimize their taxable income. Buy a $5000 used car for $250 face-value gold coins that you received from your employer, and you've shielded yourself from ever having to pay tax on what would have been a $4750 capital gain -- and you've given the used car dealer a huge tax loss (supposing that he bought the used car himself for $3000 (FRN), if he sells it for $250 (Eagle coins), he can claim a LOSS of $2750, until such time as he trades his coins for FRNs. Which he will be reluctant to do, so HE has an incentive to keep the ball rolling, perhaps starting to pay his own employees in gold ... see how this could grow?

More interesting thoughts:
Want to donate more than $2300 to Ron Paul? Send him gold coins. I am profoundly sorry that I didn't hear about this until after I'd already maxed out my contributions.
Want to escape the $10,000 per year limitation on tax-free gifts to your children? Give them gold coins.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.larkenrose.com/store/34-books/2019-the-most-dange...

It's actually a WIN-WIN situation

Think about it!

Let's say your salary is 48,000/year or 4,000/month.

Let's say 20% goes to the federal income tax. That's equal to 800/month.

Split the difference with your employer to provide an incentive:

Now tell you're employer, instead of paying me 4,000/month, please pay me only 3,600/month (so the employer is saving 400/month on you!!), but the catch is I would like to be paid in $50 gold coins! So, the employer gives you 3 gold coins (each at $1000) plus an extra one every other month (roughly speaking).

So, now according to the IRS, you're really making $180/month. Based on this meagre salary, you don't have to file any paperwork with the IRS since you're below their minimum requirements.

Therefore, you don't have to fork out 20% of your salary to them! Which means you're ahead $400/month and your employer is ahead $400/month!

How come more people are not doing this????

Instead of paying the extra

Instead of paying the extra one every other month, the employer could pay in lesser denominations such as the $25 (1/2 oz), $10 (1/4 oz), $5 (1/10 oz) Gold Eagles (or possibly the 1 oz $1 Silver Eagles).

Neat!

.