Standoff emerges at polygamist ranch in Texas,,,(MUST BE another piece of property wanted for the trans texas corridor)

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ELDORADO, Texas - Sect leaders at a polygamist compound in West Texas refused Saturday to let authorities search a temple for a teenage girl whose report of abuse led to the raid, and authorities said they were preparing "for the worst." WACO 2 ? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23958307

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Watch this

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/16/polygamist-ranch-wo...

If voting could really change things,
it would be illegal. Here is hoping for change!

Does LDS raids set new precident

for how government says you will practice religion?
I only say this because the supposed girl who called in to say she was raped hasn't appeared.

They did this to a guy in Washington State about 15 yrs ago only to find out it was a prank or a lie. He ended up suing the authorities for practically saying he was guilty until proven innocent.

Davy C Rockett

http://www.thelibertypost.com
http://screamfreedom.blogspot.com
http://liberty-central.blogspot.com

Its been 4 days has big brother made its case

hear they found a page out of a medical book ,,,,about poison how to treat,,,,If it was not so vulgar it would be laughable.

If voting could really change things,
it would be illegal. Here is hoping for change!

Yeah, I have a poison control sticker on my fridge

I wonder if I will be investigated

With four children in my home, I like to know about treating poison ingestion, because kids get into the weirdest things. I guess that makes me a criminal, too.

RP2012!

Its not right

its not

If voting could really change things,
it would be illegal. Here is hoping for change!

On the Abrams Report (MSNBC)

On the Abrams Report (MSNBC) They are reporting that the sheriff is under fire because they had an informant in this compound for FOUR YEARS!! It took them four years and a phone call from somebody allegedly inside the group (instead of a report of a crime from their informant) for them to act?? Something stinks about that. (9:37 EST 4/10)

Why most suicide bombers are Muslim....

Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature

Why most suicide bombers are Muslim, beautiful people have more daughters, humans are naturally polygamous, sexual harassment isn't sexist, and blonds are more attractive.

By: Alan S. Miller Ph.D., Satoshi Kanazawa Ph.D.

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=pto-4359....

Not politcally correct.... but interesting...

2. Humans are naturally polygamous

3.Most women benefit from polygyny, while most men benefit from monogamy

4.Most suicide bombers are Muslim

The rest are surprising as well.....

By the way, I made it as an alt-Delegate in Texas... so did another of my friends... this was not reported in any newspaper because we are still stealth until the convention.

Polygamous societies

always fall apart due to increased male-on-male violence and rivalry.

Monogamy is an old agreement between men to share women equally. Monogamy is the bedrock of Western Civilization and brought a high degree of peace, population stability and the right conditions for the accumulation of capital. Without monogamy, the generation that wrote the Constitution would not have been so willing to live and let live.

If you think polygamy is just another form of personal liberty and that a male should be allowed to impregnate as many females as he wants, then you should be prepared to live in a society without human rights. Polygamy is what the animals do - might makes right.

America today is much less monogamous (divorce, out-of-wedlock birth, go-it-alone single mothers, selective breeding, etc.) and we are becoming a cesspool.

Sorry

Polygamous societies always fall apart due to increased male-on-male violence and rivalry.

Can you point out an instance please?

As a Native American, we seemed not to have that problem for.. oh... 10,000 years or so.

Our society fell apart with the introduction of monogamous Europeans...lol.

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

Agree

But we're in the minority here. If you disagree with polygamy, you are labeled rude and accused of telling others how to run their lives. Never mind that I feel the same way about their responses! I was happy to see your post.

Actually, that's not completely true

There are many polygamists societies all around the world. Many arabic nations allow polygamy, as do African nations. The excess males usually die through wars, or hunting. Polygamy was so common among the Mormons in the early days in part because of the difficulty of the pioneering life. If you look at islamic society, it also does not really interfere with the accumulation of wealth or capitalism. The main thing that seem to happen is that there becomes an entrenched class system.

The problem that you mention in america (its become a cesspool, with which I agree) I believe is more about the lack of commitment to family, rather than a soft polygamy. I blame the state for providing to much of a security blanket - they will take care of your elderly parents, your illigitimate kids, and your pregnant girlfriends. So why care.

I would never be a polygamist (too many women around all the time) but I don't think that family oriented commited polygamists are a danger to society (or to me) - as long as they support themselves.

Yes, men do die quicker in polygmous societies.

You just proved my point. And, it can be argued that Muslim countries are now more monogamous than we are. If you want to witness polygamy just visit any American city.

Are you for real?

So according to your comments, I gather that you feel the following two scenarios are practically synonymous:

Scenario One ("from any American city"):
A man has multiple girlfriends on whom he can call at anytime to provide sexual favors. There are even slang terms thrown around for these women, for whom he has absolutely no respect; they're just sources of sexual gratification for him. Sometimes, he impregnates them, then abandons them, and they either abort their children or they get welfare from the government. Such men then continue this process with other women who are willing to be used as objects, hoping they find themselves a good one in the bunch eventually. The girlfriends repeat the same process with multiple men over the years, eventually having a brood of children, all from different daddies, none of whom pay child support or have any active role in either the woman's or the children's lives. Some of these men are even married, leaving their wife at home, while she wonders what (or who) he's doing at any given time. These cheating husbands bring home STDs they share with the wife, before deciding that the wife and 2 kids are not nearly as exciting as the hot little blonde girl at work. Rather, rinse, repeat.

Scenario Two (from Mormon Fundamentalist communities, including the FLDS, and others):
Women willingly choose to share their husband with other women, and they have a big family where all the parents contribute in child rearing, financially, and by helping one another out. Divorce is very rare and abandonment virtually unheard of. Women take care of their sister-wives' children to allow said sister-wives to pursue education, work outside the home, travel, etc. The man's wives always know who he is sleeping with, as he does not do as many American men do and cheat on his wives with a mistress unknown to his family. Because of this, the polygamist wives never fear hubby bringing home an STD. They never fear he will abandon them for a new pretty young thing he met in a bar. They never fear their children will become fatherless because, like many american dads, he decides chasing after hot young things is more important than raising his children. The polygamist father is present for his children's birthdays, events, he plays sports with them, teaches them, gives them meaningful work around the home or family business or farm.

Now, CedarMill, do you really mean to tell me that both of these scenarios of "polygamy" are equivalent?

RP2012!

You forgot about the sons

of these polygamists. Do they emigrate to a monogamous country to find wives?

(The difference between your scenarios is that the latter will lead to organized conflict.)

UM

I doubt that either of my sons are going to emigrate to another country to find a wife. Thier girlfriends think thier parent's relationship ~cool~, actually...lol.

I also don't see either of them fighting each other to extinction to find a wife. To be honest, America is so full of losers like you that they can pretty much pick and choose. They are productive males that have a brain in thier heads. In reguards to your genetic theory on your other thread that you can no longer respond in, they are ahead of the race.

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

It all evens out

Some men, even from polygamous communities, don't want necessarily want more than one wife. Some women convert into the various fundamentalist churches. Some men marry outside the church. In over 150 years of Mormon fundamentalism there has been no uprising of males who can't find wives. Don't you think if this was a problem that it would have manifested itself by now?

RP2012!

So therefore your OPINION should be enforced on all others???

I am unaware of male-on-male violence among Mormon fundamentalists. And from what I know, a lot of females are converting TO the religion, so it must attract them for some reason.

The thing to remember here is that the Mormon fundamentalists are not out to convert the entire world to their religion. They absolutely do not advocate the practice of polygamy in the world at large. They do however see it as a tenet, a commandment from their God, to live according to his laws, and wish to be left alone to follow the dictates of the conscience to live their religion. And that is a freedom that any liberty-loving person should support.

If the FLDS or other Mormon fundamentalists were trying to tell the rest of the world how to live, that would be one thing. You, on the other hand are trying to tell others how to live, which is inconsistent with liberty and justice for all.

Your last point is completely ridiculous. The FLDS are not practicing divorce on a wide scale, they definitely don't practice out of wedlock births or even premarital sex, they don't advocate single motherhood, they don't advocate selective breeding. Instead, they believe that FAMILIES ARE ETERNAL and they want strong families, of loving parents and children. Their entire system is built around the FAMILY. Not any of the problems you describe.

They seemed to be doing just fine, until a few bad apples rose to the top of the heap, which is what is drawing all of this attention from the state. But the entire FLDS or any other group of Mormon fundamentalists (the FLDS are just one Mormon church) are not child abusers, not engaged in marrying teenagers, or otherwise doing anything weird.

If all you did was listen to the mainstream media, you might think this. But I, and several others on the DailyPaul, know better, for we know people within these groups, and we have seen them to have well-behaved, courteous, intelligent, children. We have seen how they have happy families and homes. But you are willing to forget about all of that just because you think it is your right to tell others how to live.

But, since you are into collectivism and telling other people how they should run their lives, I won't bother wasting much time responding to you.

RP2012!

Happy families...

This thread began because of the business going on at the ranch in Texas. If adults want polygamy, that should be their choice. However, what do we know about the children at this ranch? It is unconscionable to force a young girl entering puberty to begin breeding.

So true

No one should ever be forced or coerced. If that happened, then there should be ramifications for those involved in denying anyone their free will. Free agency is the name of the game, especially in Mormonism, which prizes the doctrine of free will. Anyone depriving another of free will is not a very good Mormon, let alone a very good person in general.

RP2012!

Monogamy

isn't about peering into your bedroom - that's how the Catholic Church got it wrong and created a backlash.

As for liberty and justice for all, are you prepared to let clones become citizens? Should scientists be allowed to create human/animal hybrids and ask that they become citizens? Should we give citizenship to anchor babies?

Creating children with multiple women is not an acceptable way to make new citizens.

Creating children with

Creating children with multiple women is not an acceptable way to make new citizens.

Says who? You? I don't happen to think it's ideal myself, but it's not something the government or the church needs to get involved with.

Agreed, Jen!

I find many lifestyle choices to be less than ideal, and I would never choose them. Some lifestyle choices I might even think are morally objectionable according to my personal moral code, based on my religion, my culture, and the way I was raised.

I myself am a monogamous heterosexual and always have been. But I would hate it if the government told me I *had* to be a certain way. No government should have that much authority. If we give them that much, where do we draw the line (see previous post of mine for other possible government regulations we could have)?

RP2012!

Absolutely, Alaskaron

Absolutely, Alaskaron ....

Obviously, I would never condone abuse or coercion of anybody, child or adult. That goes without saying. But beyond that, who are we to decide what is morally just or unjust? Keep the government out of my bedroom.

Fortunately

there is not an ancient tradition, backed up by scripture, for cloning, human/animal hybrids, or anchor babies.

However, 85% of world societies have or do practice polygamy, including many of the societies of our European forebears, Native Americans, and others including the more obvious and well-known such as Africans, Asians, and Middle Eastern societies, including historic Judaism.

Find me an ancient precedent for human cloning and then we'll chat some more.

Do you also believe the government should get to approve who you marry? You can apply to the government and hope they feel your choice is suitable? Maybe the government could just start arranging marriages for everyone, that way citizens are produced only in an "acceptable" way? Who would elect the U.S. Federal Marriage Czar, or would they be appointed? Should said marriage czar also regulate specifically which sexual acts married persons can engage in? Or the frequency thereof? Should said Marriage Czar also decide when, how many, or even if a couple should have children, that way we have only an acceptable number of new citizens?

Your statist tendencies scare me.

There is nothing wrong with promoting monogamous hetero relationships as your favorite sort, but you should not expect the government to do this. It is not their place. And as a free country, you must be prepared to realize that some people might not have the same preference you do, and you will have to learn to live with that. Otherwise, we would need not only a Federal Marriage Czar, but also an official State Religion and State-appointed Priests to keep everyone in line with your ideas of the only way to be "acceptable".

RP2012!

No, I mean "monogamy" in the original sense.

"No children with more than one person."

Two people who sleep together exclusively and don't want children is not really monogamy. It's a lifestyle.

You can do what you want in your own bedroom, so don't bring out that red herring.

The origional sense?

MONOGAMY - A marriage contracted between one man and one woman, in exclusion of all the rest of mankind; it is used in opposition to bigamy and polygamy. The state of having only one husband or one wife at one time.

It's a relationship.. it has nothing to do with children, so don't throw in that red herring.

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

Edited

Double post... had a mouse hiccup.. ;)

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

Elect Ron Paul

Violating our constitution has become standard procedure in Washington D.C. Burning live children is ""not legal"" under our constitution. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7aqWQvDc14
Educating your own children the way you want or the way your religion wants (because you want them to) is legal under the constitution.
Why do we have incompetents or bad people in Washington D.C.??
Why do the people in Washington D.C. just continue to do more harm to this country and our freedom ..... election after .... election no matter who is in office ??
Answer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ecdkCVD7mM

Liberty is our campaigns gift to the world it is our manifest destiny.
Freedom is a movement who's time has come. Our campaign will lead world wide freedom.

I am starting to think they

want to have a spring blood sacrifice to their devil god. Maybe, I've watched to many Youtube this stuff is getting to me.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

Its no surprise to me that...

they "couldnt find the actual young girl who called" Of course not, There was no young girl who called! Thats just the LIE/excuse they used to initiate this and take action. Truth is Lost! Lies rule every level of government and public service. Only elect sincere candidates to ANY level of office.