How many are left?
Submitted by jshowell on Mon, 04/07/2008 - 07:27
If you've ever seen the movie Gladiator there is a scene where Russel Crowe "Maximus" yells to his fellow gladiators to stay close to him if they want to live. The smart ones link shields and survive the onslaught of spears, arrows and swords. The dumb ones run and get slaughtered.
So how many are staying on track to get Ron Paul at the convention in the fall? How many have run away for other candidates?
»
Did you know...
.. that most states "delegates bound" "rules" are actually STATE LAWS that apply generally to all parties and that a delegate that "revolts" is breaking state law and can PERSONALLY be open to civil litigation by the State?
If you lose a civil lawsuit you have to pay BOTH SIDES legal expenses AND possibly a large fine.
Delegates who "revolt" can also have civil cases filed against them by the party itself for breaking party rules.
Personally, I think it is important for any person who is advising a delegate to "revolt" to make that delegate aware of this issue. Don't you?
For example, here is the state law for Missouri that applies to ALL parties:
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Missouri Revised Statutes is the name for the codified laws of the State of Missouri.
The acronym for the Missouri Revised Statutes is RSMo.
Provided for your perusing pleasure is a searchable online database of the RSMo:
http://www.moga.mo.gov/st...
The following are Missouri Revised Statutes relevant to national convention delegates and delegates bound:
RSMo 1986 - 115.776. National convention delegates and alternates, selection.
6. Congressional district delegates and alternates shall be selected so that the proportion of the total district delegates and alternates that are committed to each candidate or are uncommitted equals as nearly as possible the proportion of the popular vote cast in the presidential primary selection in that district for each candidate and for the uncommitted position; except that votes for a candidate or for the uncommitted position which total less than fifteen percent of the district total shall be counted as uncommitted in determining proportions of district delegates awarded if the sum of all such votes exceeds fifteen percent of the district total.
7. At-large delegates and alternates shall be selected in numerical order from each slate so that the proportion of the total at-large delegates and alternates that is uncommitted or committed to each candidate equals as nearly as possible the proportion of the popular vote for that established political party that was cast as uncommitted and for each candidate in the state at large; except that, votes for a candidate or uncommitted listing that total less than fifteen percent of the total shall be counted as uncommitted in determining proportions of district delegates awarded if the sum of all such votes exceeds fifteen percent of the state total.
RSMo 1986 - 115.780. Delegates bound for two ballots, exceptions-pledge requirements.
1. Each national convention delegate and alternate shall be bound to vote for the candidate for whom he designated commitment, if any, when he was selected as a delegate or alternate until that or another candidate received the party's nomination, two ballots have been taken or that candidate withdraws, suspends his campaign, releases his delegates, or receives less than fifteen percent of the votes cast on the first ballot, whichever first occurs.
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Have Missouri delegates been informed that they will be breaking STATE LAW if they "revolt" and that they will be PERSONALLY open to lawsuits by the state of Missouri? And also open to lawsuit by the GOP?
I sure hope so...
SGP has been warning people also. He said:
"I have never told anyone to vote for Ron Paul if they are bound for mccain and the very least that would happen is they will never be able to be a delegate again EVER."
and also...
"i have mad that clear on many occasions that there could be civil action should they defy party rules"
=)
IM not going anywere.Ron
IM not going anywere.Ron Paul or nothing, Screw this Bob Barr sh*t.
Fanstasy Unfledged-Please support local music.
www.myspace.com/realityisperceptionmusic
I'm with him.....
like white on rice!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01kcqKd2Tag
It's not even a debate.
There is no choice, for freedom in our time, there is only Ron Paul and Revolution.
~I will never again accept the lesser of two evils.~
~I will never again accept the lesser of two evils.~
+1
+1
I am absolutley convinced
there is no other choice.
Ron Paul 2008
The DP is proof that the grassroots support for Ron Paul and his peaceful message of individual liberty is large, real, and not going away!
there is no other choice!
there is no other choice! get the nomination or die trying!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
Hey McCain-----┌П┐(◣_◢)┌П┐
Delegates Revolt!
Delegates Revolt! You have nothing to lose but your McChains!
Thank you all
This thread has proven to me one quitter can try to force his will on diehard supporters who want to fight.
I am sorry for the quitter who will not support Ron Paul and I do not know why they are on this forum.
You supporters have proven no matter how many times quitters post defeatist propaganda above your strong statements there is hope for Ron Paul.
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
How is..
.. expressing an opinion in a FORUM trying to "force my will" on anybody?
Hahaha!
Quitter = "don't revolt because you will be disqualified and permanently banned from future delegate work". Yes that's me.
People who revolt will be the TRUE "quitters" because I will be able to be a delegate and the revolters won't. What ya got to say about that?
YOU are the one encouraging PERMANENT quitting from the delegate process which CONTRADICTS what Dr. Paul is kindly asking us to do.
J.S. "True Quitter" Howell...
=)
Mart-THINK ..before it becomes illegal!
"A little rebellion now and then...is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.” - Thomas Jefferson
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent" Thomas Jefferson
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
What good will it do...
...for you to be a delegate for the next presidential election? By then, Ron Paul will be 76 years old and probably won't run. Any "Ron Paul II" candidate will be in the same situation Ron Paul is currently, so you probably would be advocating the same course of action for that candidate as well. Using your "logic" there's no chance of us getting a good presidential candidate until at least 2016!
Ron Paul is NOT asking us to refrain from being delegates for him, in fact, he's asked the exact opposite.
Am I missing something here? Exactly how is sitting back and letting all the delegates be McCain supporters going to help the Ron Paul campaign and our causes in the long run? Exactly what IS your plan? And please be specific!
Please..
.. show me where I said to not become a delegate!!! I am saying not to "revolt". You have to be a delegate to not revolt! Why on earth would I tell a non-delegate to not revolt since that would make NO sense whatsoever?
Sheeez!
Did you know that "delegates bound" are governed by STATE LAW with the intent to make sure the apportionment of delegates represents the primary results?
Do you know what it means you "revolt" against STATE LAW? It means you are open to a CIVIL LAWSUIT from whatever State you are a "delegate bound" for.
The GOP can bring a civil suit against you too!
Do you have a lawyer and legal funds handy?
=)
Dude!
How many times do I need to tell you I'm running in a state in which NONE of the delegates are bound?! Multiply that with the fact Romney, not McCain, swept my state, and the product equals I can vote for whomever I like! Do you even know how to read?!
P.S. Please provide the details of your "let's abandon our preferred candidate and suck up to the neoconservative republicans instead" plan.
Mart, please show me some statutes
1
Mart, please show me some statutes and their text to back up your claims
Onward to the National Convention we go
Here ya go!
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Contains citations from Missouri state law:
http://ago.mo.gov/opinions/1988/106-88.htm
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Citation of case law from a legal brief posted on the website of the Law Offices of David S Vogel concerning Wisconsin state law:
http://www.davidvogel.com/caselaw/touched/101wn2d0094.php
"Six years later in DEMOCRATIC PARTY, the Court held that the Democratic Party of the United States (National Party) could, in order to protect itself from intrusion by persons with "adverse political principles," refuse at convention to seat delegates bound under state law to vote in a manner inconsistent with party rules. Delegate selection rules of the National Party provided that only those willing to affiliate publicly with the party could participate in the selection of delegates to the national convention. Wisconsin delegates were required by state law, however, to vote at the national convention in accordance with the votes of an open primary"
----------------------------
State-by-State Summary
http://www.gop.com/images/AllStateSummaries.pdf
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Definintion of "Delegates Bound" at republican source.com referencing state law
http://www.republicansour...
"Delegates bound: Delegates to the national convention are required to vote for a particular presidential candidate as determined by primary results, caucus results, or individual commitment to a specified candidate in conformity with state party rules or state law. State party rules or state laws determine the number of ballots where the delegates are bound to support a particular candidate. State party rules or state laws may require delegates to be bound to support a particular candidate until the candidate releases his or her delegates."
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"Resistance need not be violent, but the civil disobedience that might be required involves confrontation with the state and invites possible imprisonment." -- Ron Paul
=)
Thanks for providing this information
We do not want to be doing anything illegal, but I especially like the last line in your first reference "3. If the rules of the national committee of an established political party prohibit any delegate from being bound to cast his or her vote for a candidate, then the provisions of the national committee rules shall govern."
Since the rules are determined by the delegates, this can perhaps unbind even those bound "by law".
The Republican Party...
.. rules don't prohibit delegates from being bound. Matter of fact, the rules define "delegates bound".
And don't forget the state laws...
A quote from someone who didn't quit
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
Mart- the cup is half empty-funcher!
Jeez!!! This is a positive thread and you are being the only one bringing negativity! How would you like someone to post contrary, negative, defeatist comments on every one of your gardening posts?
( I like the garden thread ) but what if after every garden tip you write someone said "oh that wont work" or "thats not right" or "your wrong"?
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent" Thomas Jefferson
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
Thanks..
.. for liking my garden thread!
*hugs*
(=
Repeatedly stating the same statement
of defeatist propaganda, without citations, or actual facts or anything tangible about some phantom fear you feel delegates should have is forceful.
You're alone, no one else here doesn't want to fight for Ron Paul.
Thank you for bumping this post. I'm sure more people want to blast you for your weakness.
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
You're welcome..
.. for the post bumps.
Quitter = "don't revolt because you will be disqualified and permanently banned from future delegate work". Yes that's me. I'm guilty!
People who revolt will be the TRUE "quitters" because I will be able to be a delegate and the revolters won't. What ya got to say about that?
YOU are the one encouraging PERMANENT quitting from the delegate process which CONTRADICTS what Dr. Paul is kindly asking us to do.
J.S. "True Quitter" Howell...
(=
Look at your post
No facts, no laws, not even rules from the RNC. Can you at least cite one thing that is real, besides your own fear? Why do you even post here? Are you trying to discourage delegates?
The fact is you don't have any facts. Look at SGP's post, learn Roberts Rules of Order. You aren't even a delegate.
Lead, follow or get out of the way: Words to live by.
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
Where are...
.. the "facts" that you've referenced? Other than a shower of ad hominems...
Counter anything I've said with "facts"...
Exactly
You have none. There are no laws to kick out delegates who don't vote for the majority. There are no rules delegates can't change at their conventions. You should read more and write less. Show us the law.
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
Oh yeah?
From:
http://www.republicansource.com/primaries.htm
"Delegates bound: Delegates to the national convention are required to vote for a particular presidential candidate as determined by primary results, caucus results, or individual commitment to a specified candidate in conformity with state party rules or state law. State party rules or state laws determine the number of ballots where the delegates are bound to support a particular candidate. State party rules or state laws may require delegates to be bound to support a particular candidate until the candidate releases his or her delegates."
-------------------------------------------
By "revolting" you are infringing on STATE LAW which means the individual person who decides to "revolt" is PERSONALLY open to civil lawsuit!
Are you ready to back up your "advice" and provide the funds for the legal defense of those who take your "advice" and run afoul of STATE LAW?
Also, no laws whatsoever are required by political parties to disqualify and ban participants who break the party rules and state law.
The entire spirit and reason for "delegates bound" is so the proportional support for a candidate in the caucuses and conventions reflects the proportion of the voting in the primaries.
Get a grip!
please provide some state laws
2
Mart, if you are so concerned about this,
please provide some citations to the statutes from a particular state (and preferably states plural) and the text of such statute so that we can all be enlightened.
Onward to the National Convention we go
Ok,
My legal research rate is $125/hr. I accept Paypal, credit card, and check..
;)
That's pretty cheap ... I'm
That's pretty cheap ... I'm only a legal assistant and my rate is $95/hr!
Unfortunately, I can't find anything in the MI state code on this :-(
Man, I wish we could all use facts!!