Regarding the good doctor and Muslims...
I love Dr. Paul. I love this country and its constitution. But I have a confession to make; I'm a Muslim... and there are thousands of others just like me.
I thought, given his appearance today before the Arab-American institute (I am not Arab), and this comment from yesterday on the dailypaul regarding his speech there:
Oh Boy
On October 25th, 2007 PaulMinnesota says:
Oh great, the dhimmi is addressing the raghead convention...
that this would be agood time to let the following off my chest.
What all these neo-con red staters don't know is that for decades, all the way to the 2004 election, Muslim-Americans have always voted REPUBLICAN. Why, you ask? Because the old right has always been aligned with the Muslim-American ideal, freedom of religion, small government, socially conservative. It was always the Republicans that backed our issues. GW Bush was the first presidential candidate in history to advocate Palestinian statehood. And we all voted for him. We always defended America from the verbal assaults on it by our relatives and friends in the old country.
We said "you don't understand liberty" and that "you don't understand the incredible character these people have."
So you can imagine how betrayed we felt by the Anti-Muslim hysteria that gripped the country. The Patriot Act, THe military Commissions Act, etc. The 2004 election was hell.
I'm sure I don't have to explain to the people who frequent this site why RP represents a new hope for us. And why Muslim-Americans will be supporting him in droves (those we can convince to stick with the Republicans for the primaries). But here's the catch...
We can't be public about it. I am afraid to campaign publicly for the good doctor among large, grassroots Muslim American organizations. We don't want him to be associated as the candidate for Muslims because of the collectivist nature of the country. They will call him "the choice of terrorists". Not in those words, but you can guess how they might say it in "PC" terms.
As a natural born American with a deep love for this country. I am overcome with tremendous sadness over our plight. I cannot publicly support my candidate, I cannot assemble Muslim-Americans en masse to his call. My political and civic rights and duties as an American must be suspended because of collectivism and racism in America.
In the meantime, I will do what I can to spread the word in private and raise money, and work with my meetup, even as I despair that I cannot join the fight in every way. And know that this meek and vulnerable minority is counting on Americans to pull through and defend this great nation from the Goliath-like threat it faces. Thanks from Muslim-America to the Ron Paul Revolution....
Suhail Khan
Chicago, IL
An update to clear up confusion:
I appreciate the kind comments.
On October 26th, 2007 Soi says:
but to make sure I am not misunderstood, what I was driving at is what a vested interest Muslim-Americans have in Ron Paul. At the same time, we face two principle issues:
1. A large public endorsement by mainstream Islamic organizations would immediately have the MSM portray RP as being a "sympathizer".
2. Millions of Muslim voters are disillusioned and disenfranchised with the neo-con republican party, and getting the message to them through mainstream Islamic organizations breeds problem number 1...
As such, while we still donate to the doctor as much as we can (hoping that not too many "funny names" end up on the fec report), we cannot mount an effective grassroots campaign within that community which could mobilize very well into a primary for reasons outlined in tranquilhorizons post:
"Remember too, that Muslim registered voters tend to get out the vote in higher percentages compared to the general population."
Muslim-Americans can be mobilized to the primary in droves on a single issue: Civil Rights and Constitutionalism. Add to that ending the war in Iraq and you get evengelical turnout percentages. Now, they don't have nearly the nubers of the evangelicals, but enough to make a dent in a primary.
Of course, we can't mount such tactics given the problems outlined above.
Loud & Clear
I hear and feel your plight. I also hear and feel your wisdom towards issues that encompass the the USAn and Muslim situation at this particular point in history. Understanding of historical currents, basic intelligence and true spirituality speaks louder than rhetoric.
Good Luck to you
and all our children.
Word
I share some of the same feelings, but I am more optimistic about changing American attitudes. Slowly people will begin to view American Muslims as Americans instead of strictly of Muslims, and Ron Paul's success will help a great deal towards that end. Even if Paul is publicly labeled as the Muslim choice, he can handle whatever the media throws at him. Paul's message is clear and will get through to Americans if they hear it.
Muslims will donate more as the word gets out; I am personally trying my best to inform everyone I can about Ron Paul. The potential campaign funding and votes from the Muslim community are significant. Ron Paul is fearless and should welcome Muslim support without hesitation.
There is a reason I moved here and do not intend to go back to the country of my birth, and it's the same reason you would have.
Muslims donating?
I checked the opensecrets site, and my name is not listed and neither is my husband's... so it is an incomplete list as someone else noted.
* * *
As to Muslims donating, before we can expect campaign contributions we have to take two logical steps FIRST:
1. Let them know who Ron Paul is!!
2. Convince them WHY they should support Ron Paul!!
Worry about these first, then as with so many RP supporters, once they understand what Ron Paul "really" represents, I am sure that those who are able WILL contribute in time and money.
Since many Muslims are immigrants or children of immigrants or friends of immigrants, they need to know that Ron Paul is not "anti-immigrant" as many liberals would have voters believe. (making it sound like he is racist)
Another point brought to my attention:
Muslims may be visiting Ron Paul's website and see that he uses the term "jihadists" for "terrorists". Well, to Muslims the word Jihad is an honorable thing, and I know a number of people with that name, both male and female.
But the word has been turned into someone who commits "evil" thanks to propaganda by the warhawks & MSM. Someone who struggles for a cause (eg in support of good against oppression) is said to be pursuing Jihad - an American equivalent might be calling someone Patriotic when they fight against a tyrannical govt.
So some Muslims might not get past the terminology on his website & repeated on sites that support RP. They need to be reassured enough that they will check into his message further.
That is one reason I suggested that Ron Paul supporters go to Muslims in their communities... the BEST way to show that Ron Paul is NOT against foreigners/Muslims is to show his supporters are not against them.
Okay, hope this helps someone, somewhere.
Peace.
Find out how "entangling alliances" interfered with the rights, and honor, of these U.S. Navy sailors from the USS Liberty www.ussliberty.org
Why are Muslim's not donating to Ron Paul?
OK, some people have asked: How do I know Muslims are not donating to Ron Paul?
1) In the past, when I scanned the list of names on ronpaulgraphs.com, I found very few Muslim names. He just gave his talk to the Arab-American League or whatever their name is in Michigan. Here's the list of the 351 donors from the past 24 hours. You would expect it to be loaded with Arab-American and Muslim-American names, after such a nice event. Well, where are these people?
http://ronpaulgraphs.com/donor_names.html
2) Go to
http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/index.asp
Search for Michigan (where tons of Muslims live), and search Paul, Ron as the donor recipient. Go through the names. The Muslims are not there.
Some people have said that this doesn't count the converts to Islam who may have anglo names. Ok. But where are the others?
So Muslims are getting royally screwed, and they're not fighting back - they're just hiding under a rock. So why should I fight for you if you're not willing to fight for yourself? So stop with your sob stories. There is no reason to stay hidden. Donating to a political candidate cannot be construed as terrorism or disloyalty in any way. You guys are either paralyzed with fear, apathetic, or I don't know what.
All I know is, that there are lots of you out there, from 1-6 million:
http://www.answers.com/topic/islam-in-the-united-states
and the chipin website for Ron Paul could be filled up with a small number of donations. Plus the main campaign needs donations. So fight back. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
We must remember that many
We must remember that many people will support a candidate and NEVER donate, and many that do donate only donate small amounts.
I looked up ALL Presidential donations from my zip code last quarter (its an upper middle class urban neighborhood) for this entire election cycle on opensecrets- there were less than 20 names total (and mine didn't appear). I checked donations from my home town zip (upper middle class college town) and found only 7 names on opensecrets. I don't know how they gather names, but their list is far from complete.
Also, when I donate small amounts ($10 or $25), my name never shows up on the "recent donor" list on the RP web site- or, at least, I've never seen it pop up.
"All I know is, that there are lots of you out there, from 1-6 million:"
Most estimates of muslim population in the USA range from 1-2 million. Of that number, only 25% will be of Arab extraction (muslims come from all over the world, including people with exotic sounding names like Mike Tyson). Of that 25%, a good percentage, through intermarriage and Americanization (adopting American sounding names), won't have "arab sounding" names. So lets estimate the "muslim population with arab sounding names" at 500,000 people. That would be about 0.16% of the American population.
Even if we assume that these folks are twice as likely as the "average american" to support and donate to Ron Paul, one would expect that 0.32% of the donors would be those "muslims with arab sounding names" that you refer to. You said there were 351 names pulled from a 24 hour period. Of that 351, we would statistically expect ONE person that fit your description.
With a quick glance at your list, I found: Ahmed Mohamud and Kasra Massarat - so even in this small sample, it looks like they are donating in higher than expected numbers.
Or, to put it more simply, these folks make up a small percentage of the population, so don't expect every other RP donor to be named "Ahmed".
www.ronpaul2008.com
www.ronpaul2012.com
Bear in mind..
many of them might have been offline donations.
FYI, the list in opensecret
FYI, the list in opensecret website is not complete. I can't find my name. All my friends who donated to RP are not on the list either.
Also, don't forget that a lot of people (including Muslims) don't know about RP or who RP is. If you check this link http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&l...
you will see that people with last name "Ali" (Muslims) are donating to Clinton, Obama or Richarson. I am sure if they know about the good doc most of them will donate to RP campaign.
From the list in ronpaulgraphs.com 6 names were Arabic or Muslim names. The total number of donors 346. So, 1.73% of the donors are Arabs or Muslims in that list. Around 2% of Americans are Muslims. I think the number is not bad.
BTW, Suhail did not say he was afraid of being accused of being a terrorist if he supported this candidate. "We can't be public about it. I am afraid to campaign publicly for the good doctor among large, grassroots Muslim American organizations. We don't want him to be associated as the candidate for Muslims because of the collectivist nature of the country. They will call him "the choice of terrorists". Not in those words, but you can guess how they might say it in "PC" terms."
http://www.ifamericansknew.org
I disagree Suhail.
I can understand your frustration and your reasons why the Muslim community might not want to openly endorse Ron Paul en masse or publicly. I have to disagree with you though. I think it will have the opposite effect of what you think would happen. I think the presence of the Muslim community would be inspiring and a great sight to see.
I would proudly stand next to you in defense of your thoughts and freedoms. I am one who realizes that I am only as free as you are, and you are only as free as I.
I am a member of the Long Beach Ron Paul Meet-Up group in California. I'm sure that there are many groups in your area and I'm also sure they would welcome you as a fellow patriot!
Stand tall my friend. We have a long way to go.
This is the New American Revolution 2.0
This Revolution will not be televised...
It will be downloaded!
=====================================
"The greatest mystery of all is truth." - Me, 2009
Wow...
I'm shocked at and appreciate all the responses.
As an answer to some of your questions:
I AM a member of my meetup group and do what I can. I know a couple other Muslims who do as well, both with their time and money. What spurred me to write this post was that the mainstream Muslim community was very involved in politics until 2004. I daresay tha huge organizations like ISNA, etc. probably turned out 1.5-2 million votes for GW Bush in 2000.
We cannot do the same for Paul for the reasons I outlined above. This has something to do with Naomi Wolf's "closing down of a free society". As she outlines in her book and talk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc), society gets silenced segment by segment. We are the first to go I remember after 9-11 all the pundits goin "Where's the outrage from the Muslims in America?" Meanwhile we were all shocked! We had demonstrated against terror, our mosques had sermons about he hypocrisy and sin of terrorism, and they never showed any of it. They shut down our charities, The FBI admitted to putting plants in Mosques, etc. And as Wolf says, the reach of silence is reaching others now as well.
Anyway, you get the idea....
$$
Have you done a YouTube video?
You can.....just think of the responses here, versus the Responses on You Tube.
And should you need a cash incentive..... lol.....There is the Ron Paul youtube video contest...
Just type in "treg" on you tube search.....and.....
look for "Ron Paul youtube Contest$$$" for video constest info..
have fun with it....and join in... there is still time....Make your comming out party on You Tube and make it loud and clear in all the languages that you know.... (assuming you speak more than English)
Treg
Stand Up And Be Counted
This campaign is about real Americans joining together for a common goal ,don't worry about some neocon talking points ,this is what we're fighting against .
Stand up and be counted
Sorry, but must have to disagree. The neocons are certainly going to use the "terrorists support Paul" line and that will scare the already frightened populace. The surprise effect seems for me a better option, why let the neocons use this to their favor. Joining together need not be screamed on rooftops, specially for this case, but at the voting booth. The amazing thing about RP's campaign, is that it is spontaneous and has automatically been joined by all walks of life.
Taomaster
Amen
Freedom brings us together.Shout it from the rooftops.
walter whitt
Bump =)
Bump to the top for you =)
Very enlightening comments
These comments here are very interesting and enlightening to this 50 y/o white guy and US Army veteren..
I hope this thread stays alive and active. It helps me see through other peoples eyes. This campaign is knocking down walls and educating folks like I have never seen anything else do.
Thank you.
Revenging bloodshed - better understanding blowback
Although Counterpunch is not typical reading material for Republicans, it has some good articles about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan and the tragedies resulting. So here is an article to better understand blowback (link below).
My sons were playing "Tribes" the other day, and one of their friends is thinking of joining the Air Force. To them, it's all one big video game. In fact, a number of the pilotless drones are actually controlled from a big video game casino somewhere in Montana, I think I read. They (these kids) never think of the consequences of what they are doing. I cringe every time I read a report of a U.S. bombing attack on a house in Iraq or Afghanistan, with reports of "19 suspected insurgents" vs. "8 civilians" killed. From this article, it becomes more clear what is meant by these terms ("suspected insurgent" is any male aged 16-60, and "civilians" are mostly women and kids and the very elderly), and why such policies can only lead to long-standing, and ever-rising hatred against both the United States and Israel.
Anyway, the article is titled "Revenge and Bloodshed".
http://counterpunch.org/cloughley10262007.html
In terms of muslim support for Ron Paul, I am not overwhelmed with the number of muslim-sounding names on the campaign donation list. I don't think anyone (yet) is going to brand anyone a terrorist for contributing money to the Ron Paul campaign. So if you have "50 family members", get each of them to donate $1000 dollars to the campaign. It will certainly help, and no one can chide you for participating in the political system.
Here's the link for the chipin site
So if you Muslims are so concerned,
http://ronpaulgraphs.com/chipin.html
This is the link for the chipin site. I'm sure many in your community have money. So why are you sitting on it and crying about how your community is being slandered and marginalized?
Why aren't all of these chipin requests filled with money from the Muslim community? Sorry, but that's the way politics works in America. Boots on the ground (campaign volunteers) and financial donations. You've got to pay to play.
"Muslim" names??
As a convert to Islam I have a typical white American-European name.
Same with 90% of my MUSLIM friends, mostly converts or a few who were given American names as children and took their American husband's "non-Muslim" sounding last names.
Remember, Muslims are people who follow the religion of Islam. Only 18% of Muslims are Arab, and the majority of Muslims are in Malaysia ...so there is no link to any specific nationality.
So... what is a "Muslim name"?
Please don't judge the religion of contributors by their names!
Find out how "entangling alliances" interfered with the rights, and honor, of these U.S. Navy sailors from the USS Liberty www.ussliberty.org
"Only 18% of Muslims are
"Only 18% of Muslims are Arab"
Yup.
Another interesting statistic: Most Americans of Arab extraction are NOT Muslims. According to the Arab-American Institute, only 24% of Americans of Arab descent are Muslim.
www.ronpaul2008.com
www.ronpaul2012.com
who are you...
... to say we are NOT chipping in? And who says we are sitting on our money and crying?
That is an unfair statement. The point is that Mr. Khan did not want to publicize his support for fear of *harming* Dr. Paul's campaign.
Besides, there is no way to know if $10 or $500,000 of the 3rd quarter $5.1M came from Muslims. And it is no one's right to know either. Isn't that part of this whole movement, restoring privacy rights?
Furthermore, in Islam when we give charity we are told it is better to do so anonymously... no need for us to seek credit for our contributions.
You may want to spend some time thinking about *why* you have the assumptions you do.
Peace.
Find out how "entangling alliances" interfered with the rights, and honor, of these U.S. Navy sailors from the USS Liberty www.ussliberty.org
I too face the dilemma
I too am an american muslim( also not arab) and a ron paul convert when I heard him debate with gouliani about why they attacked us. I feel the republican base has been made to believe that a muslim=terrosirst so i too find my face(haha bearded and dark skined) next too a paul banner would make them feel uneasy to find out about the great man. My parents and family came to this country so they could make an honest living working hard while having the ability to practice their religion freely. I am a doctor and i feel contribute if equaly to the american society than an avg american. I am sick of being picked out to be searched at the airport because my name is similar to a person who is wanted. I just want to be left alone.
Soi I can relate to what you are saying so I can give you some advice. I am trying to ask my extended family to vote for dr paul. That is the biggest difference i can make. I think I probably have more than 50 family members easy who i can talk to. They have in the past voted democrat because to them republican=bush. So if you feel uneasy to go out there, just try convincing your family members and muslim friends to vote for him.
Peace
Libertarians and Faith
The founders were so brilliant it astounds me every day. They knew that if you have a government support a particular religion it not only corrupts government but the religion as well.
The problem people of faith have is that the Democratic Party is hostile to people of faith. The Republicans activly support people of faith (Christians) but only through lip service and things that don't really matter in the big picture. The libertarian philosophy is to treat people as individuals based on their actions. All the others parties like to group people and pander to those groups.
What is great about libertarians is that I can be a Faithful Catholic and you can be a Faithful Muslim but if we know we are both Libertarians we don't pose any threat to each other so we can be friends. If one is trying to use government (ie men with guns) to force to do things we want a threat exists and we can no longer be friends.
This will probably be controversial, but...
I think the problem for Islam came when the money behind a corrupt Saudi dictatorship ("Kingdom"?? Please...) went into the hate sect in Islam that's the equivalent of "God Hates Fags" hate sect in Christianity. In both cases, they're all intolerant crypto control freaks who passionately hate the idea of people like me having fun & being left the hell alone. Anyway, because of the money behind it, and because of some CIA-stupidity which has become typical these days, the haters have gained enormous power. Dr. Paul is their nightmare, because his proposed policies would dry-up their recruiting and put the hearts and minds of good people worldwide back behind the USA and against the haters of any sort. Just MHO.
JMR
I think the bigger problem is...
... that OUR govt supports corrupt (so-called Islamic) regimes. Ron Paul will change all that! Without that support these regimes might be overthrown, even peacefully. I always wondered what would have happened in Iraq if instead of more than a decade of sanctions and bombings which killed hundreds of thousands and weakened the masses ... if we would have stayed out of it, let the people become strong, then they would have removed Saddam themselves to bring about democracy.
None of these "Islamic" countries follow Islam properly, because believe it or not Islam is against oppression, requires tolerance and freedom, plus requires everyone to pursue education of all types including sciences.
(Historical Andalusia being the prime example).
Nobody likes a dictatorship. (yup, even Muslims want freedom & democracy!)
And by the way, since you are referring to a certain kingdom, you might be surprised to learn just how many Americans & other westerners go to work in that region and live there for years, even decades. For such an "intolerant" society, they make some serious accommodations to make Americans comfortable, kind of a split-personality situation.
Find out how "entangling alliances" interfered with the rights, and honor, of these U.S. Navy sailors from the USS Liberty www.ussliberty.org
More On Iraq
Not only that, but if you dig deeper, you find that our CIA actually carried out a military coup to overthrow a leftist, reformist party that would have nationalized Iraqi oil (just like we did with Iran in 1953) and installed the corrupt and atheistic Baathist party. Sadam was a CIA-sponsored hitman who was rewarded with a powerful government position. We took him off the dole when he no longer gave us what we wanted - complete control of Iraqi oil operations.
Islam was always the least of our problems with Iraq. It has been the neocons and their Likkud party allies running a mob operation in the Middle East. They used the Cold War to revisit the British 'Great Game.' Globalisation is the new Imperialism carried out by multinational corporate interests who presently own our democracy.
Canada Loves Ron Paul
Canada Loves Ron Paul
All of us are Americans
Suhail,
I deeply regret and am angered by the dilemma you face. In this day and age when we all seem to think we're such "enlightened" people, the shallowness shown by so many of us who haven't learned the lessons of past injustices is absolutely unacceptable.
Please know that the vast majority of us out here - including me, a 47-year-old person of European heritage - are strongly committed to changing this by setting as good of a mature example as Ron Paul did by attending the Arab-American Institute event.
Darryl Schmitz
St. Johns, MI
Go for it!
My brother Suhail,
Just go for it. Dr Paul needs all the support he can get. Don't worry about how the disingenious media might spin it. You go and campaign and get everyone you know to do so likewise!
Ron Paul even has neo-nazi white supremacists supporting him. Getting supporters from the Middle East is going to be a natural thing due to his non-interventionism.
That is why THE WHOLE WORLD wants Ron Paul to win! see this:
http://www.whowouldtheworldelect.com/
Just know that not all Americans are in support of the military-industrial-complex and the destruction of countries in total.
I love our military, our technology, but not our misuse of it. It is for DEFENSE, not OFFENSE.
Soi
Suhail,
As sala'amu alaikum.
Not almost, you DO bring tears to my eyes. This is supposed to be AMERICA, not Amerika. I would stand either shoulder to shoulder with you or back to back as either the opportunity or need allowed or demanded.
I honor you and you bring honor to your home and family. I pray, for both of us, that Dr. Ron Paul is our next President. I believe that he, and only he, can heal the world such that we can ALL live as brothers.
Sadly, tragically, most of the American people are abysmally ignorant regarding the damage, death and destruction and cultural and social devastation the United States Government's foreign policy has caused over the last 60 years, not just the Mid-East, but over the rest of the planet as well. I believe that only Dr. Paul's non-interventionalist foreign policy can show the world that we are serious about being fit to be good neighbors on this ever shrinking globe.
Baraka bashad,
John Galt
The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle;
pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity; and
worship without sacrifice: Mahatma Mohandas K. Gandhi
The things that will destroy us are: politics without principle;
pleasure without conscience; wealth without work; knowledge without character; business without morality; science without humanity; and
worship without sacrifice: Mahatma Mohandas K. Gan
You can join meetups...
Like somebody said earlier, you could join existing meetup.com groups in your area and mix in with everybody else and help out, instead of making any announcements through official community organizations. We always welcome the extra help! One thing about this campaign is that you find people from all different backgrounds are involved, because liberty matters to everyone.
From Now ON......
I think we should make a conscience effort to never put our ethnic types on any document for the government.
Let me explain what I mean...cause I'm NOT saying be ashamed or hide your roots....
Sherry Peel Jackson (incase you don't know) is a woman who tells people about the way the government robs us using the income tax....in almost all of her speeches she points out how MSM is always promoting news that encourages us to be racially divided. The idea being "divide and conquer"
There are countless other folks who point this out too...
Now think about your job application, your drivers license, your credit card application, just about ANYTHING... one question is...are you white, black, hispanic, asian, ect.....
WHY???? Why do they care? It's a way to desensitize us to being divided.
Me personally, I've started selecting "other" and writing in American. If this was the case with all of us "they" would have to deal with us in person in order to divide us.
SOI...you and I..we're fellow Americans =) Glad you're here and Thanks for being concerned about what "could" happen.