***BREAKING NEWS!*** House Passes Thought Crime Prevention Bill
Submitted by Paradox on Fri, 10/26/2007 - 17:11Boy, they're upping the ante now. Scary times we live in. I think everyone should print a zillion copies of this and distribute it everywhere. Seems to me a pretty blatant attack on us, don't you think? If this bill doesn't prove how much we need to ALL VOTE FOR RON PAUL, I don't know what does. This is due to go to the Senate any day and then Guess Who will make it a law. So everyone...time to write our Senators. IT'S ON...
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How much will we take?
At what point do we form an armed militia?
I've asked that question myself....
to many people and no one can answer it. I've pretty much given up on the idea that anyone will actually do it. I think everyone will just let bad stuff happen. I wish I had a better answer. It would be nice to know where to draw the line and what to do.
We Are The Ones We Have Been Waiting For..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7KHUbuhgpQ
Powerful, powerful stuff.
As for your question; I think when it becomes painfully obvious.. that the government has suddenly stopped looking out for your interests, and it is in fact only considering its own. And when the GOVT confronts you - personally, and you are adversely affected first hand, will people really come to the realization, that they've suddenly become beholden to special interests and corporate thugs. Those that represent them, are no longer American. They have become the antithesis of everything that IS un-American. And when this conclusion is reached, people will have no hesitation in righteously raising up and taking back what is theirs, and that is the destiny of the United States.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQu_l0sZb8o
We the people. WE the people. WE the PEOPLE!
This bill, while somewhat dangerous....
I suggest that the amount of alarm over this bill is overblown. Everyone needs to take a couple of pills. One would be a "chill pill" and the other would be a "vigilance pill." This bill, while somewhat dangerous, really just sets up a committee to "study" homegrown terrorism and what motivates it. It does however also show their line of thinking and where they are going with all this. The committee is basically being given instructions to "look" at certain beliefs to see if they cause "homegrown terrorism."
There are specific instructions in the bill in section 899F sub (a),(c) that prevents the violation of rights of citizens of the United States. This would include the 5th amendment against self incrimination. To me though, the instructions to avoid violating our rights seems diametrically opposed to the information the commission is seeking. This whole thing could be made "null and void" by simply pleading the 5th during any questioning by the commission. The only avenue open then would be through "infiltration" to study certain groups but it doesn't appear this bill authorizes that type of undercover work.
The commission is to issue a report every 6 months and a final report after 18 months on their findings. It is what the government does, based on the information in the reports, that will be the real concern.
This bill does NOT refer to any section of the U.S. code for punishment of any type of activity, or thought process. It does not specifically lay out any penalties itself for "belief systems" it considers to be likely to spawn violence. This bill does not actually call these "belief systems" a crime, YET. I do feel however, that we need to be very vigilant concerning the reports issued by the commission and need to obtain the versions of the reports that are issued to congress and not just the version it says will be issued to the public under section 899C sub (q) (4). Have your FOIA forms all filled out and at the ready folks. How do I know all this? I READ the actual bill itself rather than relying on what some alarmist wrote about it in an article.
This bill is merely a stepping stone to a thought crimes bill. If enough stink is raised over it though, it may give them pause to reconsider proceeding further down this path. But please, don't tell your congressmen or senator that you oppose the "thought crimes bill" because that is not what this is and it will show them you are uninformed and ignorant. I'm not necessarily good at picking titles and names for things but a name other than the "thought crimes bill" should be chosen. Maybe the bill # could be used once it is introduced in the senate. SB whatever...
Sincerely,
Paul C. Hanson
Mr. Hanson you know....
that once they form a committee and that committee makes certain recommendations then Congress just goes along with those recommendations and passes legislation based on them. That way Congress is off the hook. No, this bill, H.R. 1955 needs to be stopped now. We should have been told about it by someone before it passed the House. Why weren't we? Can we trust no one? Mr. Hanson, your comment makes me very angry. You are trying to throw cold water on this and ruin everyone's motivation to stop this horrendous bill now. It's people like you that make it hard to defend liberty. Everyone needs to be enraged by this bill. The audacity that they would say that they would not go against anyone's constitutional rights. Yeah, right. We can really trust them. This bill needs to burn in hell and everyone that voted for it is a traitor.
Really now...
Just stating the facts ma'am... I have been fighting for the cause of liberty since 1991 when I had my eyes opened by the JBS and others. I was a chapter leader in that organization for several years fighting exactly the types of legislation we are discussing. I was on the front lines in defeating the "conference of states" resolution that was a back door attempt to a constitutional convention and which the JBS was the main and pretty much only organization fighting it. Here is a link that shows the victory and timing.
http://www.jbs.org/node/166
I wanted you to see the timing just so you'd know how long I've been in this fight and to let you know that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to me and what I do or do not support. What were YOU doing in 1994?? I was manning booths at gun shows, lobbying my state legislature, writing letters and articles every chance I got. That is what I was doing. This conference of states was the biggest threat to the constitution since it's inception and I was part of the movement that killed it, dead. But even prior to that, I was informing others about the federal reserve, the Constitution and anything else that came down the pike since, as I said before, 1991. So before you go accusing me of "throwing cold water" on anything, make sure you are fully aware of ALL the circumstances and that you fully realize "you ain't talkin' to someone who just fell off the turnip truck."
Now go back and find something in what I posted that was not factual. Everything in my post was FACT. I'm a stickler for that type of thing so I already know you won't find anything. You also misrepresented what I said. I did NOT tell people not to fight this bill. What I said was that if you are going to contact congress regarding it, don't call it the "thought crimes bill" because that would not be accurate. In fact, this is exactly what I said:
"This bill is merely a stepping stone to a thought crimes bill. If enough stink is raised over it though, it may give them pause to reconsider proceeding further down this path. But please, don't tell your congressmen or senator that you oppose the "thought crimes bill" because that is not what this is and it will show them you are uninformed and ignorant."
Notice I said to raise a stink over it?? I in no way said not to do anything about it, I merely said to make sure you don't sound like a moron when doing so. I also felt it necessary to state the fact that this bill in no way establishes any statutes regarding thought crimes. It forms a committee just as I said. I also said to take both a chill and a VIGILANCE pill which means to pay attention to what is going on in regards to it. So if you can find anywhere in there that I said to do nothing about it at all, I'll concede. If not, take 2 of the first pill I suggested.
Sincerely,
Paul C. Hanson
I did not ask for your resume
What you have done in the past does not matter to me at all. What is happening right now is what is important. You are correct that it should not be called the thought crime bill and that it just sets up a committee; but as I stated before, Congress will just rubber stamp whatever the committee says and by that time it will be too late.
When you tell people to take a "chill pill" you are throwing cold water on their motivation to fight. And I will not take any "chill pills" because I have a boy with autism and it is not fair that once the thought crime legislation does go into effect his mother will be in jail and he will have no one to take care of him. I will be in jail because I will not stop thinking and I will not stop talking about the abuses of this government. Would you like to take care of him for me? If not, then fight this bill with everything you've got and stop attacking me.
Not a resume`
I'm sorry, and here I thought it was you who attacked me. You in not so many words told me that it was people like me who made it hard to defend the cause of liberty. I placed the information about my past in there to show that I don't in any way hinder that cause but in fact have fought for it for many years and still do. And, for that reason, I deserve a little more respect than what you dished out and are still dishing. Here is something else I don't do: Head off down the road half cocked, or run around like chicken little claiming the sky is falling when in fact it was just an acorn that fell on my head. I never said this bill was a good thing but it isn't the entire "sky." It is an "acorn" compared to what the actual legislation resulting from it would be. It was mis-represented in some ways in the article linked above.
A calm and reasoned response is a much better approach. First off, one should usually read the legislation in question (which I have actually done) to know exactly what you are up against. Then, formulate a strategy to defeat it. But telling your senator to not vote for a "thought crime bill" would not be part of that strategy. Telling him not to vote for HR1995 or SB*.* WOULD be a part. I understand passion can sometimes over-rule reason and that is apparently the case here. Trust me, I will be contacting my Senators and my Representative about this bill and I urge others to do so as well. If you send them a rant, it will be ignored. Send a reasoned response stating your objections to it and to what it is leading up to. There, is that better??? Of course that has been my implication all along. You were just too riled up to see it.
I'm also sorry to hear about your son. I have a question about that if you care to answer. I know it's off-topic but here goes: Did he previously, or does he now have any problems with his ears? Balance problems, ear infections or anything like that that you are aware of? I'm not an MD or anything, I just have a feeling that autism and the vestibular system (in close conjunction with the cerebellum) may be in some way related.
Sincerely,
Paul C. Hanson
No problem with his ears
And thank you for your concern about him. You are right, I shouldn't have been so harsh with you. And you are correct also that if you send your Senators a rant you will just be ignored. Please answer me just one thing though.....if this bill passes the Senate and gets signed into law by Bush, isn't it true that Congress will just rubber stamp whatever the Committee comes up with? Won't it be too late to stop it by then? Don't we have to stop it now in order to have a real chance of stopping it?
If the comittee actually writes the legislation..
That may be an entirely accurate assessment if the committee writes the actual legislation. One possible thing that may slow it is the jealousy involved by individual house committee chairmen. Many, if not all of these chairmen, have this "feeling of self importance" and would be pretty upset if a piece of legislation hit the floor without their committee holding a hearing on it. That could be one thing that could slow down any actual "thought crimes" bill that may be submitted. Of course various house leaders could grab them by the shirt and say "not on this one, we need to ram it through." You just never know with these clowns.
A fast track on the actual bill that creates the thought crimes is entirely possible. They could even introduce a bill in the house and senate at the same time, vote on it at the same time and there would be no publication of the house version before the senate voted as well. If both bills were identical, and amendments were disallowed, there would be no need for a conference report and a re-vote. Then off to our dictator in chief for a signature. Game, set, match. So yes, when put that way, this current bill may be more troublesome than I originally thought. I don't have precise knowledge of each of our legislative bodies rules of procedure so most of what I said above is speculation. If I wanted to ram a piece of crap bill through, the above would be the method I'd use if the rules allowed for it.
Out of curiosity, since my last message, I did a search at:
http://www.pubmed.gov
under the terms "vestibular autism" (with quotes around the search term). The results were interesting, until their server crashed. If you decide to look it up, make sure the reader on the pubmed site is set to "abstract plus." This will show the abstract of the actual medical studies that have been done in connection with the search term. There have been several.
Paul.
wow
just...wow.
Write
Write your Senators TODAY! Don't just post here, write to THEM! Let them know this is a terrible idea. Otherwise, they will think "im protecting my consituents". Write NOW!
If you don't know who your Senators are Google ((state) senators)
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, 1791
Stop this bill!
HR1955 is in the Committee for Homeland Security right now. It may die there or it may go to the Senate. Call your Senators NOW and tell them if the bill goes to the Senate vote NO on HR1955. If it does make it to the Senate, I will be calling and emailing my senators again. We have to stop this bill, it would be the end of the Constitution as we know it.
This needs quick action THIS WEEK
This needs to be sent to pastors/leaders of every church you know of. This bill will directly affect them. They can mobilize their groups to contact the Senators to help us get this blocked.
I just sent this to many of my friends as ammo as to why they need to get on the Ron Paul Express.
Live free or die.
question
can't these people that voted yes be removed from office because they are not upholding their oath to protect the constitution?
anyone?
anyone?
Why IMPEACHMENT is not an option.
Ralph Nader: "Things Are a Lot Worse than We Thought!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIO-tCPSfHA
Oh geez....
Sure it's called impeachment
Sure it's called impeachment proceedings. However it requires an honest judge to oversee. Sorry we don't have many of those either. Just ask Ed and Elaine Brown about our judiciary.
Go right ahead and try to impeach them. If they don't laugh you out of the system, if they can't make you a laughing stock they destroy your reputation and your finances.
If you still come after them they simply kill you.
_______________________________
..Without the truth we have nothing
Reign of Terror
With HR 1955 we are entering a Reign of Terror like during the French Revolution.
Can we stop this?
Can we stop this in the Senate? Are there any groups out there that will notify their members and help stop this?
Maybye we can send all the neocons to jail
`(4) IDEOLOGICALLY BASED VIOLENCE- The term `ideologically based violence' means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual's political, religious, or social beliefs.
Like the stuff the administration is doing to Iran?
Wait, so... this bill bans
Wait, so... this bill bans spreading democracy abroad? Under this bill it would illegal to be in Iraq in order to promote democracy? Awesome!!!
The second amendment is an
The second amendment is an amendment which authorizes violence. Violence in defense of our constitution. Every person who voted for this outrage broke with their oath to defend the constitution by criminalizing it's primary mechanism of defense.
If it becomes a crime to discuss the overthrow of an unjust out of control federal tyranny then they can nullify the second amendment without overtly doing so. They can criminalize Jefferson and Madison and George Washington and every other freedom fighter who has been enshrined as a true hero and patriot for over two centuries.
The proponents of this H.R. 1955 have effectively made self defense a crime of violence.
Writing to them to explain this to them will do little to change their vote. They understand exactly what they have done. They did not vote their conscience they voted to enhance their own power and each and every one of them are traitors.
_______________________________
..Without the truth we have nothing
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
My congressman voted for it!
And mine co-sponsored it!
Reichert, that s.o.b. He's been in bed with bush from the beginning.
Why weren't we told....
about this before it passed in the House?
Yeah?
???
Write your Senator.
I wrote to both of my Senators outlining why I disapprove of this bill. All of you should do the same.
Read the bill, then write both of your state's Senators. Outline your views on the bill and why you don't support it.
I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.
Thomas Jefferson, 1791
Raise
I agree.
Bump
Bump