WSJ: McCain Seeks Funds Despite Legal Hurdles (OUR CHANCE?)
Submitted by FreedomLover on Tue, 04/15/2008 - 02:39
We have a serious chance here to utilize the delegate system through our grassroots organizing to undermine McWar's ironic McCain/Feingold violations. Dr. Paul still has a chance. Now, read this article and decide what to do.
McCain Seeks Funds
Despite Legal Hurdles
Sen. John McCain continues to raise and spend money for his presidential campaign despite mounting legal hurdles, a bet that the race will be over before Washington's hobbled election watchdogs can unholster their guns.
continue here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120821806555314611.html?mod=...
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Dumb it down
All that legal stuff is too complicated. Simple folks will not understand it, much less attempt to read it. McCain is a war hero and that's good enough for those whose family trees do not have any branches. We just need a simple memorable slogan. I suggest this one:
I do not like that McCain man
I won't support him Sam I Am
The United States is a nation of laws, badly written and randomly enforced. - Frank Zappa
http://www.myspace.com/occasionalstringband
http://www.myspace.com/occasionalstringband
Important Point from WSJ article
"The DNC lawsuit, filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, argues that Sen. McCain must stay within the public-financing system because he used the promise of taxpayer funds as collateral for a $4 million bank loan last year. That means he benefited from the funds, even if he didn't deposit them, the DNC says. The McCain campaign denies the funds were used as collateral."
This indicates that McCain benefited from the public financing component. What can we do on a state level to disqualify his delegates?
If he's willing to break the
If he's willing to break the law to get into office, what's the chances he'll follow the law once in office?
We're grasping at straws
We're grasping at straws here.
I have read all manner of stuff, including the idea that he can't legally run because he was born in Panama.
The only way Ron Paul will get the GOP nomination is if the "delegate strategy" works. I predict it won't, but I'm willing to wait and see. But one thing all the wishful thinkers seem to overlook is that the elites are not known for following rules strictly or obeying the law.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
More like a large branch than a straw
You may have read all manner of stuff, but your comprehension is poor to nonexistent.
Operation Delegation
Panamanchurian Candidate lawsuit
Butcher of Black Mesa
Iseman
Keating 5
FEC Violations lawsuit
Songbird
Ross Perot and Mrs. McCain I
Mrs. McCain II and Married to the Mob
Green Zone Follies
McCain-(pick-a-politician-and-write-it-in-here) legislation
All of these and more are the baggage McCain brings along to St. Paul.
Lack of delegate support
2 lawsuits
Genocide
Adultery
Ehtics Violations
Treason
Spouse Abandonment
Mob Connections
Mental Incompetency
Unconstitutional and un-American legislative history
These are the things that McCain has brought on himself.
These are the things that will sway public opinion and delegate opinion against him.
These are the things that need to be shouted from the rooftops.
These are the things that can deny him the nomination IF they are repeated LOUDLY and OFTEN.
How many other candidates have brought so much ammunition to be shot with, with them to the hunt? He obliges, so lock and load, and fire away.
Make him accountable for his past.
Make him lose his temper.
Make him look foolish.
Make him look even more stupid than he actually is.
We do what Dr. Paul was either unable or unwilling to do: BURY HIM!
It's that simple. It's how the game is played. Time to turn up our game.
Optimism!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/45820
Kevin, My mouse just died or I'd get you more examples to give you hope.
However...
If states with Ron Paul strongholds enters a vote to repeal his delegates at the state level, then the delegates will be blocked, right?
Of course, we'll need some legal action that recognizes the law being broke... Can we use the DNC findings and build on them for the state level?
Sue McCain? Get an injunction?
The DNC lawsuit, it seems to me, proceeds only because they have standing due to their eventual nominee being damaged by the extra exposure McCain will enjoy going into the general election campaign -- exposure bought illegally. Interestingly, though, no Dem was directly damaged (unless McCain scored significant "hits" on them since Feb.) in the primary season. The Dems, then, probably can't demand a resolution of the issue before the nomination is a done deal -- and that certainly won't help the Ron Paul Campaign!
The candidates who WERE directly damaged due to his overspending in the primary election campaign were those whose chance at the GOP nomination were lessened by the extra exposure he illegally bought -- and by the preferential media coverage accorded him as the presumptive nominee, when he shouldn't have been in that position at all.
So ... which candidates would those be? Any GOP candidate still in the race at the time McCain broke the spending limit in February.
That is ... Ron Paul.
The Paul Campaign has every right to sue McCain, and also to ask for a court injunction to deny McCain any delegates he "earned" since breaking the spending limit ... at least until the FEC exercises its power to grant him a release from his obligation to adhere to the limit -- something that isn't going to happen before the general election. A case could also be made that he should be disqualified altogether, since nobody can say whether he could have come this far had he not broken the law (especially by "winning" delegates in states where he attained ballot status only because he accepted the spending limits).
Now, I don't really expect the Paul Campaign to do this. After all, that would burn a lot of bridges within the GOP.
But maybe those bridges aren't worth saving at the expense of having a neocon nominee. Consider: If McCain wins in November despite all of this, the GOP will henceforth be locked in neocon mode. Conservatives will have no hope of recovering their party any time soon. And if he loses, probably in part because of something like a Libertarian Barr candidacy, the GOP will still lose much -- maybe most -- of its conservative base. Indeed, the LP could, if this McCain scandal (and others) play big to voters, end up replacing the GOP altogether as a political force in America.
So maybe the GOP PTB would be well advised to line up in back of Ron Paul and make a big deal of taking the moral high ground: "We won't be accused again of stealing an election. That means we can't have a nominee who is there by fraudulent means. We also recognize that legal action by the Dems could disqualify McCain during the general election season, since he would have attained the nomination illegally, leaving us unrepresented in 2008. Furthermore, we now realize that our best chances in the general election lie in providing a true conservative alternative to the liberal Dems, and maybe it's time we gave the old Taft-Goldwater-Reagan brand of conservatism a try once more."
On that line of thinking, the GOP might not only tolerate but embrace a legal challenge by the Paul Campaign as a way to avoid committing political suicide. That will depend on whether party loyalty trumps loyalty to the corporate-fascist interests that so strongly influence both major parties -- a big question. Talks with the GOP leadership would certainly be in order....
The bottom line is that Ron Paul has every legal and moral right to demand a court injunction, or otherwise sue McCain, to remove the "presumptive" nominee from the race for his illegal acts, leaving Ron (for the moment, at least) the only candidate for the nomination. In my opinion, that approach has an even greater likelihood of winning him the nomination than does the strategy of packing the convention with delegates who can nominate him after the first ballot (a good strategy, but one subject to parliamentary maneuvering -- or simple railroading -- that could kill it).
Thoughts?
It's not quite that simple....
If McCain retreats and accepts that he's bound by his agreement to the spending limits (part of what made him "eligible" for the matching funds program), then he can't (or at least SHOULD'NT be allowed to) just pay back the surplus money he's raised. He has already received the benefits to his campaign that the money bought (except what he still hasn't spent). And it's his spending, not his fundraising, that is the problem. If candidates could spend way beyond the limits they agree to in order to be in the matching funds program, and then just pay back the "overage" later on, the law would be meaningless -- because it didn't control the spending as intended.
He broke the law, and if he gets away with it, that will be because of preferential treatment in the face of that law.
When McCain says he will accept
the funds if Obama does he is refering to the general election. If they take the funds they get 84 million to spend and can spend no more...Obama will opt out cause he can raise more then that, what will McCain do? As for the funding for the primary, his campaign has taken the stance that he is out of the financing and so can continue to raise and spend money freely. As has been said...either he loses the delegates gains through the financing or he stops spending and pays back the millions he has over spent already.
Enonesoch
Oh
Thanks for clearing up the general and primary fund thing. I think he is tied into taking the funds because he used it to get on the ballots and therefore must pay a fine for overspending. But I'd rather he would reject the funds and give up his delegates. But I think the biggest thing that comes from this for us is to point out his incompetence.
I don't agree we should stay out ...
This is not just a political issue, it's a legal issue; and, if Ron Paul's presidential campaign didn't stand for anything else, it stands for the rule of law.
McCain doesn't deserve a fine, he deserves decertification of his delegates.
My gosh, the DNC decertified the ENTIRE Florida and Ohio delegations (two of our largest states) for actions that violated party rules, not state and federal laws. Attack McCain, any public officials who don't uphold the rule of law and ANY media flack who questions our motives.
Remember, the state of ARIZONA forced a governor to resign (Evan Meecham) over just such a violation, then dropped the charges after they got rid of him.
If
If he turns down the funds, he deserves desertification of his delegates. So far, he is saying he has not turned down the funds.
However, if he does not turn down the funds, then I think he has over spent. Over spending results in what punishment? Right now, overspending is his main problem since he is no longer filing to get out.
So are you proposing that WE also file a law suit? Criticize McCain, sure, in a business way. Of course.
Truthfully
I hate to say it, but this whole mess is probably, as the article implies, simply going to result in a "fine." It won't stop his candidacy. The best thing WE can do is stay out of it at this point, but hope (spelled help) the democrats embarrass McCain with the mess as much as possible, which it seems they are willing to do without our involvement. I'm glad they are getting him. Probably talking about it here is all the help we need to lend. Their lurkers will take any good ideas back.
So now it seems he is saying he is going to take the funds if Obama does. I don't think that should be the way the game is played. He is confusing his own issue and mess. Last I heard, he had filed to get out of the funding. So it is "I'm in," no wait, "I'm out," no wait again, "I'm in," no, I mean, "If he is in, then I am in." Ridiculous. He is trying to put his mess on Obama's back. Pretty stupid. I think he should be held to the funding, his delegates from the states where he used the funding in place of signatures should be removed from him and he should be fined for his over expenditure since he accepted the funds. He cannot say he has not yet accepted the funds because he used the funds to avoid signatures. It should be easy enough to also see if he used the funds for collateral. Collateral and signatures are the two facts that need to be nailed down. He is a fool for breaking his own reforms. If he cannot even keep his own rules straight, how can he take care of the country. That is really sloppy.