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+ TX CPS lead witness is on a nonprofit board asking for money to house FLDS children-conflict or worse? +

DISCOVERY:

Amy Voss CPS TX state lead witness is on the board of directors for this private nonprofit claiming to house children.

The nonprofit is appealing for money, citing need for money because of the FLDS Eldorado raid.

Read the nonprofit's money appeal and click on 'staff' and you'll see board of directors with Voss' name.

http://www.cactomgreen.org/index.php

Conflict of interest---or worse?

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How about a CONSTITUTION

How about a CONSTITUTION BOMB! Ideas? Lots of good past listings for pocket constitutions. Maybe major shipment to that renegade TX judge would make a difference?

Coke County Courthouse
Robert Lee, TX 76945
51st District Court
Judge Barbara Walther
Phone: 325-659-6571

http://www.co.coke.tx.us/ips/cms/districtcourt/

Trust in God, but tie your camel tight.

"Socialism needs two legs on which to stand; a right and a left. While appearing to be in complete opposition to one another,they both march in the same direction." - Paul Proctor

Are your children next?

(One curiosity I noticed: the Texas goons have even managed to make a Canadian citizen a ward of the state, using their wide net approach. Perhaps her lawyer will contact the Canadian consulate general in Dallas, who should press for her immediate return to Canada.)

The Polygamy Files: The Tribune's blog on the plural life
http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/2008/04/ruling.htm

Saturday, April 19, 2008
The Ruling

The children stay with the state. By now you know that Tom Green County Judge Barbara Walther came to that conclusion today after two long days of testimony about whether the FLDS culture is inherently abusive to children.

She said yes.

Now, to get their children back parents will, at a minimum, have to submit DNA samples, undergo psychiatric evaluations and agree to safety plans focused on . . . well, who knows at this point. A CPS investigator could come up with no proposals for what parents might do to be reunited with their children.

Still, attorneys made spirited arguments for returning the children, speaking of them by age, name or color. The state divided the FLDS children and young mothers into color-coded groups: blue, pink, orange, brown, grey, depending on their ages and circumstances. Several young mothers were allowed to leave the Colesium or Wells Fargo Pavilion to come to court today; they wore identification wrist bands.

The mothers took the stand this evening and said they would do anything to be reunited with their children: move off the ranch, agree to temporary restraining orders prohibiting contact with their husbands, counseling.

They agreed, you could say, to become single mothers and cut themselves off from their friends, family and faith.

Now, Texas Child Protective Services is apparently arranging to send their 416 children all over the state and even across the country.

Those in the courtroom did not have to wait long for the judge to make her decision -- the recess lasted just five minutes, though I'm sure Walther has been thinking it over since signing the order two weeks ago that led to the children's removal.

Media were assigned to the last row in the Courtroom A, which meant that to see and hear the proceedings I had to stand up. All the rows ahead of me were filled with FLDS members. During the wait, a number of men sat with bowed heads and seemed to be praying.

A young couple sat directly in front of me. The woman, Lori Jessop, 25, is staying in the shelter at the Wells Fargo Pavilion with her three children. She was brought to court today to testify about her marriage and willingness to protect her children.

Her husband is 27. When she arrived at court, she found him among the crowd and slipped into the bench beside him. I realized they had not seen each other in two weeks.

He put his arm around her, held her close through hours of testimony. Her rubbed her back at one point. They whispered back and forth. She is an EMT and told the judge that she would take their children -- ages 4 to 11 months -- and move off the ranch and go to work if she could stay with them.

After the judge issued her ruling, they stood and stared at one another, a look of shock on their faces.

I have no idea what becomes of her now, whether the state will let her continue to stay with their children. I suppose not.

We heard other complicated stories today. One attorney said she represented a 17-year-old girl who is a Canadian citizen and was visiting her grandmother who lives at the ranch when the raid occurred. Now she is a ward of the state of Texas.

One attorney said he represents a 5-year-old boy who has Down's syndrome and other serious medical problems. What about him? he asked the cult expert who testified for the state. Wouldn't he be better off with his mother?

Linda Musser, 56, said she was in Lubbock where her 29-year-old daughter is hospitalized and undergoing dialysis and treatment for other medical problems. Musser's 13-year-old son was taken away. Musser, who was in a monogamous marriage but is now legally divorced, told the judge she would move off the ranch, perhaps to Lubbock to be near her daughter, if that is what it would take to get her son returned. Her older sons would support her.

The judge decided otherwise, for now.

RP2012!

I HAVE A QUESTION ON THE COURAGE OF PEOPLE POSTING

HERE......This is obviously one of the most blatant attempts by the gov. to steal our rights, without probable cause that has been published in the MSM in any extremely long time(ever?) My question is how many of you would be willing to round up a half dozen of or more of your co patriots (with weapons) and drive to this place and force the government to give back the children to their parents? Q#1

And if the answer is no you would not do that; then how many people would they have to round up illegally in order for any of you to take a similar action?Q#2

I AM SURE THE FED. GOV. IS WATCHING THIS WITH INTEREST TO SEE IF AMERICANS WILL TAKE ANY ACTIONS, OR HOW OUTRAGED THEY WILL BE OR NOT BE......AT THESE BLATANT AND MOST LIKELY ILLEGAL ACTIONS.....

Would you take action if it were your relatives or neighbors?? Q#3 I think many people will write letters, make a phone call or even send emails...but to actually get up grab a gun, fill up a tank full of fuel and drive hundreds of miles (or thousands) to confront an illegal action by the government...how many , or does any one exist currently that would take this type of action?Q#4

I would say it should be

I would say it should be about 200-1000 people with rifles... not 1/2 a dozen and you organize it and I am on my way. ... and I am pretty sure those children were a lot safer than young male pledges in congress?

Formerly rprevolutionist

THANKS FOR ANSWERING....

I see alot of posts of people saying their angry or outraged at this or that...but I wonder..how many of these people would really take a stand?? Out of probably hundreds of readers only one person answered in the affirmative...this is deeply disturbing...I will start a main thread and see what results we get...

one of those mothers

one of those mothers lamented...."will anyone speak out for us"? This is a perfect example of the desperate need to revive the Militia of the Several States!

Trust in God, but tie your camel tight.

"Socialism needs two legs on which to stand; a right and a left. While appearing to be in complete opposition to one another,they both march in the same direction." - Paul Proctor

can you answer those questions please

I KNOW OF THE MOTHERS PLIGHT....WHY DO YOU THINK I POSTED THIS.....

I tell you in the 60"s this would not have been tolerated---

and this has

what to do with
RON PAUL getting elected to office?

"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski

It has to do with the r3VOLution.

It's called finding out the truth.

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

A lot of people are

A lot of people are complaining about precious metal, 9-11 Truth, and Farming/survival posts being "off-topic"--what's up with this? We see post after post after post on this subject, which in my opinion is irrelevant to Ron Paul and the future of constitutional America.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

Because they are rounding up and persecuting a group.

When the time comes and it is your group they round up, will it be time then to complain?

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

How is the biggest assault on the 1st, 4th, and 14th amendments

How is the biggest assault on the 1st, 4th, and 14th amendments in recent history irrelevant to the future of a constitutional America? ? ? ? ? ?

RP2012!

For starters it's a state

For starters it's a state issue, not a federal one. So while it stinks, there are hundreds of laws enforced by the local gendarmes that stink. To call it the biggest assault on the amendments listed above is hyperbole, in my opinion.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

OK, "irrelevant" was a bit

OK, "irrelevant" was a bit harsh. But it's a state issue, we have lots of tyranny onerously coming down on us at the federal level (REAL ID, for example, to be implemented within 30 days or so) and I just don't see the obsession with one news item of many.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

Okay. We'll all keep that in mind

when YOUR state finds a reason to round YOUR FAMILY up and herd YOUR FAMILY into church busses and haul you away. We'll remember then how it's a state issue and how Kevin Tuma would not want us getting involved on his behalf, when it's just a state issue and not worthy of our obsession. Thanks for saving us the trouble of caring about you and your family.

RP2012!

I agree with you, Ron, we

I agree with you, Ron, we don't need to say anything when they haul Kevin or his family off.

Formerly rprevolutionist

Just a state issue...nothing to see here...move along, citizen..

Uh, Kevin? If it's a "state" issue, does that, then, in your mind, mean that the protections promised by our Bill of Rights shouldn't apply?

I'm glad your mindset wasn't the major opinion followed when Massachusetts was attacked on April 19, 1775 and thereafter...if the other colonies had just shrugged and said, "Oh, that's in Massachusetts, not here; we don't need to pay any mind," then we'd all be eating bangers and mash today.

And, please. As much as we here believe in states' rights and state sovereignty, you and I know exactly how it all pans out...just check all the state laws that get (unconstitutionally) overruled by federal laws. To think that the possibility of an event such as this is limited to one state is (forgive my harshness) sheer ignorance.

nothing to see here

"I'm glad your mindset wasn't the major opinion followed when Massachusetts was attacked on April 19, 1775 and thereafter...if the other colonies had just shrugged and said, "Oh, that's in Massachusetts, not here; we don't need to pay any mind," then we'd all be eating bangers and mash today."

LOL, true indeed!

------------------------------------------------
"RON PAUL SUPPORTER SINCE 1997"
RON PAUL 2008 / RE-ELECT 2012

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
My ฿itcoin: 17khsA7MvBJAGAPkhrFJdQZPYKgxAeXkBY
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State issue?

So the first, fourth, fourteenth amendments only apply in the District of Columbia? They do not apply to the citizens of the several united States?

RP2012!

GMTA

:)

Indeed, fanofwalt, indeed :)

Indeed, fanofwalt, indeed :)

RP2012!

So you are aware of a bigger situation?

You're telling me you are aware of a bigger situation, where more than 416 persons have been illegally seized under false pretenses, or where more than 700 people at one time have had their first amendment right to religious belief and freedom to associate/assemble assaulted?

If you know of any bigger assaults, please let us know, because we would all like to oppose them.

RP2012!

bigger issues? well, yeah....

The Iraq Occupation has ALREADY cost tens of thousands of lives over the last half decade, the Assault on (some unpopular) Drugs has ALREADY destroyed tens of thousands of lives over the past few generations, and the Federal Reserve has ALREADY stolen billions and indirectly killed tens of millions in almost a century, but Texas' Corrupt Parasitic Slime STILL threaten hundreds of innocent children, and we can STILL save them, so while it's not our technically biggest issue, it is probably our most urgent issue this week.

Sic Semper Tyrannis!
Professor Bernardo de la Paz
www.citizenduquesne.org

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

Of course the 700 or so victims here are but a drop

in the humanitarian bucket of oblivion to which our guvmint seeks to sentence those who disagree with them.

But for the moment, this is definitely something to concern ourselves with. When we round up hundreds of women and children and herd them into First Baptist Church busses, and haul them to concentration camps, ALL in our own country, we have reached a new level of in-your-face authoritarian behavior.

Sadly, I know this is merely one episode; there are yet many more to come, just as many have gone before.

RP2012!

yes yes yes

I agree with you on the "bigger issues." I, for one, agree with one of the mothers that stated in their interview that they should have handled the accusation one family at a time and deal accordingly. But what of the moral obligation. We Republicans have seen fit to set ourselves in front of the world as the moral party....so therefore wouldn't it be prudent to say that we are just looking out for the rights of these children. They don't have a voice. Their voice is controlled by their parents who are controlled by their leaders. The authorities don't have an evil intent to destroy these people but they do have a sense of moral obligation to protect the children from having sex with older men and protecting the integrity of law. They have long dealt with this group, one by one as they lined up with their hands held out for foodstamps and the like; therefore there may have been some predisposition to "handle" them once and for all. That, I think is what is wrong with gov't agencies like CPS; but when you choose to have dealings with these agencies you are forever laying yourself up for thier way of doing things and place yourself in their control-so to speak. Yes, Yes I know they didn't ask for this...they just made it easier for themselves to be condemned. Down with BRAINWASHING-the ultimate form of FREEDOM ROBBERY!!

"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski

"But what of the moral obligation"?

That's an excellent question, and I thank you for it. Indeed, what of the moral obligation of Texas state officials to uphold their oaths of office, to protect, defend, and support the Constitutions of the united States and of the Republic of Texas? What is their moral obligation to follow due process? What is their moral obligation not to go out of their way to terrorize hundreds of innocent children who have trespassed against none, and who were in no imminent danger of being trespassed against? What of their moral obligation to respect the Fifth Amendment's injunction against the taking of private property (cell phones) without just compensation?

This is a very good question, moonslippers, and I would love to read your response.

Thus always to tyrants!
Professor Bernardo de la Paz
www.citizenduquesne.org

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

You know what ass-u-me (ing) does

The Patriot Act and the provisions of power it allows for state and law enforcement entities pretty much says they don't have to be moral or follow due process for that matter. They can act out of their own interpretation of this Act under VERY LITTLE scrutiny. I am sure, in their minds, they were protecting the civil liberties of these children to not be exploited by their caregivers. Unfortunately due process is a thing of the past. And as to terrorizing these children, don't you think that is alittle unfounded? We can only assume the reaction of these kids because of their protected way of life and our interpretaions of events seen and unseen. We can also only assume there was no imminent danger as much as we can assume there was. What is interesting to note is that during many posts I have read and responded to there is alot of assuming going on; ofcourse me included. For FLDS members and posters here on this forum to assume that my children have been thrown to the wolves because they participate in watching the evil TV, use of the internet, and are members of "the outside" community, they are somehow doomed to debauchery and "hell on earth" is riduculous and can only be explained by the breeding of fear. As to the Fifth ammendment well the Patriot Act has taken care of that too. Tis true we all love to get on our soapbox for the underdog and decry the awful offenses of "the man," but wisdom dictates we know ALL the facts, from every perspective before we pretend to know anything-otherwise we are just assuming and you know what that does.

"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski

Extra-Constitutional Authority

Even if you give it a high minded and benign sounding name like "The Patriot Act", no mere piece of legislation has the power to overturn the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth, or Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution.

It appears you decline to answer my questions.

In an effort to make it easier for you, I'll boil it down to one:

Does a government employee have a moral obligation to obey his oath of office?

Long Live the Free Market!
Professor Bernardo de la Paz
www.citizenduquesne.org

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

I believe

I answered your questions one by one. But let me break it down for you....who are you to assume they didn't fulfill their moral obligations or do you subscribe to child sex?

and isn't the impeding power of the Patriot Act in great dispute with most Americans for its effect on those above mentioned ammendments.....

I enjoy reading your website by the way:) and to quote you in regards to your judgement of the Texas authorities actions:

"Your body and your home are your business, and unless you threaten others, you should be left to your innocent pleasures. It has to be a legitimate emergency for our government to interfere with our lives, to pull us over on the street, to search our homes, or to lock us up."

So you agree that sometimes it is necessary in the context of the legitimacy of the law to protect any child against neglect, abuse, even if it is based on the allegations of the child or victim and not been proven. Due process uh?

"...the most memorable concern of mankind
is the guts it takes to
face the sunlight again."-Charles Bukowski

What emergency?

I am pleased that you enjoy the web-site, and am always eager for feedback. Nevertheless I am still frustrated by our current exchange. Was that a "Yes" or a "No"?

With regards to your quotation of my text: How does one anonymous (and fraudulent?) unconfirmed allegation of rape and battery constitute an imminent danger to 416 neighbors?

Happy Trails!
Professor Bernardo de la Paz
www.citizenduquesne.org

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr