Can You Ever Really Own Real Property?
Submitted by gottago on Sun, 04/20/2008 - 10:12
It seems people talk about what they should be allowed to do with their property (land and house), as long as you pay your property tax.
My question is, how do think you can own your home if it is contingent on your paying a state property tax. If you don't pay the tax, the government will place a lien on the property and dispose of it to satisfy the tax debt.
Please tell me how you will ever own your property with this bogus tax in place. Feedback would be appreciated.
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If you took it out
of the US corporate juridiction, and bonded all your own services (trash, fire, water, etc.) Then they really could not tax you at all, but many are just finding this out.
The real problem lies with our use of complicated financial negotiable instruments called checks, FRN's, promissory notes, bonds, and insurance without understanding what liablilities we are creating when we use them. And also liscences/signing our rights away.
There are many different avenues
you can take to get the liens taken off so whatever the problem there are multiple solutions. We are setting up a service that is willing to assume credit card debt for people cause we are working with a company that has got the process down and has been doing it for the last 8 years and can handle all the court proceedures in case of suit. We are still in the beginning stages, but I think it will be huge.
study the mortgage or deed
study the mortgage or deed of trust, we sign into contracts with the banks and agree to pledge home, or car, whatever over as collateral to secure payment of the debt along with agreeing to pay all taxes follow all laws.......what im wondering......what if you claim interest in the promissory note and terminated the trust...debt distinguished, would you then own it? I have not studied this far out yet, but I bet there some good info there. Another thing to look into with property is federal zone DMM 122.32 (i think thats it). this corrupt system really is amazing, they have worked very hard to close all doors to remedy and for the most part succeeded.
great question and topic. Also in most state constitutions it states something to the affect all land shall be allodial. We probably contract out of it.
You can never really own
You can never really own your property because we are on this planet temporarily for but a brief moment in time, we use what we will and claim them to be ours but they are all simply borrowed.
RON PAUL PHONE FROM HOME
R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution 2012!
Mises.org
Royal Estate not Real Estate
The term Real Estate is not derived from the English word "real" like tangible. It comes from the French "Royal" like belongs to the king... I agree it is inconstant with privacy and private property rights we are told we have.
I am a local tax assessor... I hear the boos and hiss from the DP gang... get over it guys I chose to engage the system to learn more about it.
Good bad and ugly about Property Tax is..
It is a tax on real wealth that is apportioned to the value of your assets.
It is one of the only taxes that strictly pays for local services you actually use unlike throwing money down the DC rat hole at the IRS.
Most States have an appeal process and attempt to make it a market value that is fair given the system in place. You should go visit your Assessor and learn what they do.
Business pays the lion share and uses the least services.
It can be replaced with out the loss of services and here is how.....
#1 Let the County Treasurer collect taxes in gold and silver.
# 2 Produce a local currency based on the value of the gold and silver
# 3 Allow local government to write mortgages on property they sell at sheriff sale and collect interest.
# 4 Sell Title Insurance and Contract insurance in the County Recorder's office
Why this will never happen..
Banks would rather get Counties in to Debt the compete with them.
Lawyers sell title insurance (based on the Recorders data)
The Federal Reserve
State control. The Central Government in your state house can keep better tabs on you and your local government under their thumb with regulations
.
Property Taxes
It seems to me that if the 10th Amendment is for real then your roperty is YOURS and should not be subject to property tax. Over the years, I have heard of Land Patents and Alloidial Titles. These are suppose to be issued by the Bureau of Land Management in Washington. However, one has to do homework because not all states and land qualifies for Land Patents. Land Patents were issued to Indian Reservations years ago and then the government gradually got away from issuing them. There is also Emminent Domain. It seems to me that all these laws and statutes have been created to confuse owners so they never really own their land.
I think Ron Paul supporters should revive interest in Land Patents and Alloidial Titles so people who worked hard for their land can pass it down to family members without fear of ever having it taken away. What say you ?
Absolutely!!
________________________________________
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. ~Thomas Paine
________________________________________
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. ~Thomas Paine
I appreciate the feedback
from all of you. This issue, amongst many others, don't garner attention of people until you slap them in the face with it (not talking about people on this site).
I sent a note to the editor of my newspaper, Spartanburg Herald Journal, similar to my original post here, and he called today to see if they can print it tomorrow.
It seems the newspapers are willing to expose this corrupt system. I'd say it's worth 5 minutes of time to express these concerns. Give it a try.
Taxes should
ensure that the state will protect your private property rights. Without state protection you might as well quit your job so you can sit on the front porch with a shotgun. Yes, this is a coercive tax law but there really doesn't seem to be a better solution. What would you rather them do? Allow you to not pay your property taxes and just not send out fire and rescue to your house when it catches on fire or someone trespasses?
If that is someone's choice than so be it!
The only moral tax, if there is such a thing, is a sales tax, because at least that is somewhat voluntary. Or fire and protection should be paid for on a voluntary private basis. Another example is trash collection. In many towns, the service is private and voluntary. Those who don't want to pay for a company to remove it do so themselves. Stop extorting me to pay for what you want.
________________________________________
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. ~Thomas Paine
________________________________________
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. ~Thomas Paine
Their are plenty of other ways to collect taxes
If they can tax property, then you don't own that property. The most basic right protected by the Constitution is the right to truly own property (allodial title), not just rent it from the government. You don't need property taxes at the local level in the same way that you don't need income taxes at the federal and state level to run the government. If the government were limited it wouldn't need to rely on property taxes, instead you could have sales taxes, user fees, commercial property taxes, etc..
I don't mind
paying for county-based services. I don't want my property held as collateral for the payment of those services. So, you are saying I should not have a right to own my property.
Can You Ever Really Own Real Property?
sorry, not in this country... (land of the free?)
One absolutely can, however,
One absolutely can, however, if they choose to remain ignorant of the law then they only hold a color of title.
RENT!
Property tax is simply the government charging rent on something the government does not own. It matters not how local that government may be.
This Should Help Put Things In Perspective
Or maybe just confuse you even more. Please visit the following link.
http://www.whoownstheworld.com
YES YOU CAN BUT YOU MUST LEARN THE LAW
click on link and seek the truth and it will make you free...
http://www.best-fit-offshore-asset-protection.com/continuing...
you must obtain alloidial title to the propert then you own it
and it comes off the tax rolls...
It's erroneous...
.. to lump land and houses together. A house is something you make. The land is just there.
Also, "property" tax is a county issue and VERY local democracy.
A tax is just a legalized
A tax is just a legalized protection racket. It is the government's way of establishing ownership over anything that it taxes. Once they have established ownership, they can charge you rent, or "taxes" to maintain your possession of it. But anything that can be taxed can also be taken away by the simple expedient of raising the tax beyond what you can afford to pay. This is true of your house, your car, and even yourself. Government claims ownership of all these things, and you must pay to maintain possession of all of them, or die trying to defend against their theft.
www.paulforronpaul.com
home improvements
I'm trying to figure out how to charge the owner(holder of the title) for 90,000 worth of improvements. If I send him a bill will he pay? If I get paid I'll just improve more. Sounds like a win win proposition.
Larry Mann
Property tax..
.. was one of the few taxes the Founding Fathers were for.
The Founding Fathers believed that property ownership was THE basis for freedom. They viewed property as the means of production. If a person can produce and keep the fruits of their labor they can control their own destiny and pursuit of happiness.
The Founding Fathers wanted as many people as possible to own property (the means of the production). They did not want people to amass large holdings of unproductive land thereby depriving others who might make that land useful and productive empowering their own freedom.
A small property tax was a way to penalize and discourage hoarding of land and the keeping of it in an unproductive state and at the same time out-of-the-reach of those who WOULD make it productive.
Notice that the first and preeminent principle of socialism/communism is to deprive persons of the ownership of property and the means of production and to confiscate the fruits of labor.
Of all the taxes I believe property tax is one of the "good ones". It is not responsible to hoard land in such an unproductive state that the owner is unable to even pay a small tax when there are many others who would gladly put the land to productive use....
What about squatter's rights?
As an individual you can't just buy up an entire state and then let it rot. Eventually someone will move onto your land and claim ownership. It is also in a land owner's best interest to use the land efficiently. As far as I know the only land hoarders are governments, because they don't care about things like squatter's rights or using land efficiently. Using property taxes to discourage hoarding doesn't make sense because you are penalizing the people that actually use the land and encouraging them to move to other counties that have no tax.
Well...
.. read about the "Elements" that need to be satisfied as a "preponderance of evidence" for squatters rights to be satisfied here:
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Squatters+rights
You will see that they largely depend on the owner having neglected the land and the squatter putting the land to productive use. For example:
"Physical acts must show that the possessor is exercising the dominion over the land that an average owner of similar property would exercise. Ordinary use of the property—for example, planting and harvesting crops or cutting and selling timber—indicates actual possession. In some states acts that constitute actual possession are found in statute."
Squatter's rights and property tax share the same philosophical and spiritual foundations: Land hoarding deprives people of the means of production and is antithetical to freedom for the masses of people.
We don't make land. Land is a common heritage for mankind. Unlike things we do produce such as houses, farm produce, textiles, etc.. We never really "own" land, we are just stewards of it.
U.S. tradition says that if we use land that another owner has deed to, but has neglected, then we are "exercising dominion over the land" and that we are then entitled to possession of it.
Squatter's rights and property tax(land tax) go hand-in-hand....
Even property tax can and is
Even property tax can and is being abused.
I was told by a friend that their uncle was paying something like 8 or 9 thousand dollars in property taxes per year for nothing more than a simple average home which was on probably less than a quarter acre. And their taxes in that area are slated to continue increasing. The reason: out of control government spending. The federal government is not the only government in this nation that can be abusive as well as fiscally irresponsible.
...
I agree..
.. the tax was meant to be small and only a "land tax", not a tax on something you build such as a house. You don't create land, it is just there and a heritage to all people. You never really own the land in the sense you might own a house or some other object. We are just stewards of the land.
Wrong!!!
"Of all the taxes I believe property tax is one of the "good ones". It is not responsible to hoard land in such an unproductive state..."
Why should a land owner be forced to use their property in any way someone or some other group deems suitable - in your example, to require owners to make their land "productive". If any given landowner has acquired their land legitimately IT IS THEIR LAND. Accordingly , landowners should be the ones to decide how their land is to be used - whether that be "productive" or otherwise - bearing in mind they cannot use it to create a legal "nuisance".
Then there is the danger that getting the foot in the door with property tax just allows for further encroachments on people's property rights. Good luck keeping the tax "small". Just look what happened to income tax after it was introduced.
And who decides what constitutes "productive"? Are you proposing putting property tax only on "non-productive" land? If so, just watch as local politicians find every use that doesn't conform to their development fantasies as "non-productive" and jack up the tax to force compliance.
To force payment of tax as a penalty for unproductive land use would compel those, such as indigenous peoples who wish to live off their land as they have for millenia apart from the money economy to participate in a modern economy they reject in order to pay property tax.
Just because some of the Founders may have approved of property taxes doesn't make it desirable. All taxes are theft - property tax no less than others.
marlow
marlow
All taxes are theft.
And all real property is theft. Who will protect your real property monopoly from righteous squatters? The government! That is why we have property tax - to pay for the enforcement of dubious real property rights. (I prefer no taxes and no subsidized enforcement of property rights, but that's just me.)
The best allocation of property tax is according to size not value. In the middle ages, this method encouraged the clustering of villages - a wise form of urban planning.
No thanks..
.. I take offense to being "clustered in villages". That is what the UN's Agenda 21 wants to do, force us out of the countryside and into urban "corridors". Sounds like you are trying to encourage socialism
Can you propose a more equitable and fair way to fund county government (the most localized democracy there is)?
I have no desire to return to medieval serfdom even if it has a fancy new name... =)
If you must have taxes,
then the most fair is community service. Everyone serves an equal period and is paid in local scrip. The scrip can then be used in lieu of community service. And, voila, you have just created a labor-backed currency.
A small community could do this and within a few short years reach the highest standard of living on earth. Of course, the Money Masters will soon put an end to it.