I practiced Civil Disobedience Today and won !
Down the road from where I live they set up road blocks about every month and stop everyone and ask to see your identification and registration and insurance.
My son called me to tell me they had him pulled off the road and where grilling him. So I told him to hold tight I would be there in a minute.
I get there and they stop me also before I can get to my son.
Today I had enough and asked them why they had stopped me..the officer explained they where just checking everyone's papers.
I politely declined and asked if I was being detained and if not was I free to go. The officer asked me if I had anything to hide. I said of course not. But since we live in a free country and I have not broken in laws nor given you a reason to stop me I don't believe you have the right to detain me. I then reminded him he couldn't even stop me according to the state law for not having my seatbelt on and write me a ticket unless he was stopping me for something else. So why could he stop me to just check my Identification and papers. You could see the light bulb go on in his head and he agreed with me that yes that I was correct about the seat belt thing..so I was like how can you then stop me for no reason ?
He called his supervisor over and he explained it was state law they could stop people and check their information.
I requested the state statute and he couldn't provide it. So I once again asked him if he was detaining me and if not was I free to go.
And he said yes you are free to go.
Thankfully they let my son go while I was there.
I always worry because he has Schizophrenia and I have instructed him to call me if he ever is stopped or approached by the police.
He made the mistake of calling the police awhile back when someone had stolen his Xbox and they hauled my son to jail instead. While they hauled him to jail the people finished the job and stole his other game system and computer. Of course the police told me they couldn't do anything because I didn't have proof they stole his stuff. aRGH !!!!
BTW I went to their house the next day and caught them loading his computer into a taxi..I stopped them and took it back.
Way to go!
Did you press charges against the people who stole your son's stuff? Can your stories become a letter to the editor?
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What Do You Do About Those Drunk Checkpoints Then
Is there a protocol to follow? I mean, say you did have a drink or two and there the road block is, what do you do? By the way, I'm a cracker.
They are legit
.
As we all know, intoxicated drivers are a safety risk. So the police are right to do it, occasionally - New Year's Eve, St. Patrick's Day, 4th of July - things like that. These usually happen late at night, and the officers usually explain the reason.
If it were to happen mid-day on a non-holiday I would be a little suspicious.
Mostly the cops are decent people; they have families and want to do well at their jobs. The snag is when an order comes down that is not especially to their liking and they have to follow it anyway, such as the initial poster explained.
Alex Jones has covered this quite a bit and his stories are always interesting.
This is not about drunk
This is not about drunk drivers. It is about law abiding citizens being pulled over, unlawfully, by police who have no reason or just cause to be doing so.
Police must obey the law as well.
...
You are misinformed....
If we are using the Constitution here as our guidelines, checkpoints are not legal. The entire Department of Motor Vehicles is unconstitutional. People you have to understand that the constitution says to be a crime their has to be a victim. You can not be punished for something you might do. There must be damage to someone or something, bottom line. Checkpoints are illegal and unconstitutional. You have the natural right to travel freely by whatever means you choose, and to where ever you choose, without restriction. This is at the center of the Ron Paul message. FREEDOM. Sometimes you guys scare me?!?
You are exactly right
I don't think some people really understand the meaning of freedom. checkpoints are never ok. they are never constitutional.
Thank you for informing the uninformed!
Besides, that's how checkpoints got started in the first place. Have you ever heard the saying, "give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile"? It's not just a clever lil' ditty. It's a fact. First they stop you on New Years Eve and then it's any eve they choose. I find it funny and disturbing that "officers" raise their hooves in the air and swear to protect and defend the constitution, but have no idea what it says. It's the good ol' buddy club where the moo crew are issued firearms and told what the law is or says. Ridiculous.
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism."
-George Washington
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism."
-George Washington
This was not a drunk checkpoint..
But if you scan through this thread farther down there is a link to a state by state list of each state laws. They are legal in some states but not all.
Sobriety checkpoints are legal here in my state.
You have to BE innocent to
You have to BE innocent to plead innocent.
(Yes, I know...even if you are guilty they should not be pulling over everyone. However, only the innocent people who did not drink and drive have the right to bitch about the checkpoints. Likewise, sober people are the only people that should tell the cop how wrong it is while undergoing their sobriety tests.)
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Way to go...keep this bumped!
Great job.
I never would have thought of that while pulled over! That's great logic-you were very quick on your feet, which is what we need to quickly educate people.
I'm glad the cop got the "wow, that does make sense" look. Even if it's just one cop, it's one more cop on our side.
In fact, I had my own experience with an officer yesterday, and I was very glad to have read your article!
Around 11:30 at night, I was putting up Ron Paul signs and suddenly noticed a car was driving strait toward me. It was not obeying traffic laws and pulled up all stealth-like...no lights, no turn signals...it was kinda scary, but then I realized it was a marked police car.
At first I was terrified, but then I remembered your article and just relaxed and turned to face in his direction with a smile.
As he pulled up I simply said, "Hi how are you doing this evening?" in a cheerful/friendly tone.
His attitude changed and he was suddenly less intimidating.
He still wanted me to answer a few questions, but at least I didn't feel too scared.
He asked what I was doing, so I told him "putting up Ron Paul signs" and informed him that I would be polite and remove the signs in a few days.
He thought about it for a while and asked me a few more questions, then he ended up just driving away.
Thanks for the confidence boost!
The biggest thing that I took from your article is the need to remember that you are doing nothing wrong, so there is no reason to feel frightened.
Thank you,
Rochelle
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Standing up to disobedient government is not civil disobedience
As you pointed out, the police had no law backing up their 'searches'.
They were the ones being disobedient...you were not. You were valiantly and patriotically opposing their disobedience.
Why bother pointing this out? Because words and their meanings are sacred...nations collaspe when words start to lose their meaning.
You must be white
Try that "I got rights!" crap with the wrong skin color and you most likely get hours of harrassment at the police station, probable loss of car, etc.
I'm white and married a black person...after a few years, I could see a stark contrast in how the police handles whites and blacks. In fact, just reporting a crime (like say, someone shot up your house) will get you some sort of ticket. They find some way to ticket you as punishment for assuming they are there to protect you. In certain neighborhoods, the police aren't there to protect people, they are there to 'police' them (as in how the US is 'policing' other countries). It reminds me of how organized crime offers people 'protection'.
Anyway, I'm glad you were an exception to police harrassment, but that is all you were...the police harrassment did happen and will continue to happen until there is a massive change in what the people will allow. And that is why I am glad you started this thread. The more we communicate about our rights and how to stand up for those rights, the better.
So despite my racial tangent, I DO appreciate the OP. However, the sooner more whites acknowledge what is happening to our fellow dark-skinned Americans, the sooner we can team up and overthrow our screwed up government. Ming the Merciless couldn't have split up the races, cultures, etc. any better. Ron Paul was on his way to being Flash Gordon, the great uniter, but besides a vague 'The government shouldn't have race-based policies.", he offered nothing to non-whites...when they clearly are being treated differently by this government and the American culture in general.
it doesn't just happen to those with darker skin
i have called the police only once in my life. and once i flagged down a cop for help. both times it was i who got harassed and almost went to jail. i'm white, blond hair and green eyes. i'm now 33 years old. between the ages of 16-24 i had a gun pulled on me at least once a year by a cop. want to know how many times i was arrested during that time period? once. and the charges were dropped because i had done nothing wrong. and the time i was actually arrested no guns were drawn.
i will say this treatment is much more prevalent in the communities of minorities, but it's on the way to all of our neighborhoods.
people need to get over race. CFR, Bilderberg and TTC don't have issues with race. they'll take whoever to further their cause. and we should be no different if we are to be victorious.
the race issue keeps us divided and focused on the wrong things. i'm white and know of no conspiracy to hold the minorities down. i will call any person who supports true freedom a friend. no matter what color they are.
No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in - Bill Hicks
I will concede on one point
"i will say this treatment is much more prevalent in the communities of minorities, but it's on the way to all of our neighborhoods."
I completely agree with that. My black wife and I live in an upscale neighborhood...and we get terrific police service.
But when I go to her old neighborhood (mostly all black, but not poor by any means), the police treat everyone, including me, guilty of something.
Still, that does say that certain neighbors are targeted by the police...and that is a conspiracy of some type to hold blacks down. They have, or at least feel they have, NO police! No one to stand up to the villians. Young black males grow up in that, see the system is out to screw them up...then they see a street gang, who often start off to protect the neighborhood. Hell yeah, they drop out of school, the system that won't even provide text books, and join the gang. And then Oprah and Cosby whine about blacks dropping out...why should they stay in?
Ron Paul, for as great as his insight is about most issues, TOTALLY misses the boat on this issue.
Simple Internal Affairs checks in black neighborhoods could substantially kick the police in the @ss.
And I'm all for pulling one's self up. For years, I've been telling my black family/friends to get a cell phone that record video and record cops as much as possible. Heck, all of us need to do that...perhaps even at work.
I'm sick of the whole 'don't talk about work on the internet' crap. That can lead to all sorts of stuff. Already they are trying to make it where you can't sue certain businesses...so what can we do? Record them.
That will be our greatest civil disobedience.
Anyway, as much as white people want to believe there aren't any race problems, there are....and yes, they are there to purposely keep us apart.
I recently had the pleasure of asserting my rights as well
I was pulled over by a pretty friendly cop who told me that my brake light was out. He wanted to run my registration so I gave it to him. Another cop came to the passenger window and told me "Sorry, I just didn't want to stay out in the dark." He then proceeded to ask me all sorts of questions about where I went to school and blah blah blah. What he was really doing was checking to see if there was anything illegal in plain view.
He eventually asked me, "Don't you think its a late to be headed home?" (It was 10:11pm and I was driving back to my home in Gainesville, FL). I had enough at that point and said, "No. I do not think it is too late to drive my car. I think I just spent time with my sick grandmother and perhaps should've left even later." My "new friend" left at that point.
The polite cop reappeared on my driver side and said his associate "happened to notice" a prescription bottle on my seat. I said "Oh, did he happen to notice it, huh?" And gave him the bottle, which was an empty prescription bottle for Adderall. It was prescribed for my girlfriend, though I also have a prescription. The cop told me that there is still "residue" in the bottle and that constitutes an amphetamine narcotic. I told him that I needed "amphetamine narcotics" due to a learning disability and had to help my girlfriend pay for it. He asked me if I would step out the car.
I did. There were three police officers standing there looking as though I was a threat to national security. The more pleasant officer said, "We'd like to make a procedural search of your vehicle." I told him that I had said only the truth, had done nothing wrong, and do NOT consent to a search. I then asked if I was being charged. The officer said no. I told him I'd like to be on my way. He said that was fine and didn't even cite me for the brake light.
I've read that a whopping 98% of Americans consent to these searches. In my situation, the simple assertion of my rights was like a magic word. The cops were gone in a rush and with no further comments.
Good for you !!!
Yesterday I was talking to a guy that works for us part-time and the same thing happened to another guy he works for part-time..He had left his pills in his glove box last time they where out on a job and forgot to take them out.
He was pulled over and when he went to get his registration out the police saw the pill bottles.
The only problem he didn't know to assert his rights..he ended up being arrested and hauled downtown.
So let me get this straight
You mean to tell me that if I pick up a prescription from a pharmacy for myself or a relative, then if I get pulled over and for whatever reason they discover the prescription, I have somehow committed a crime and can be arrested?
Hope not
My picks up medicines for me all the time......if this happens, then the pharmacist would also have to go to jail for dispensing to persons without a prescription...what a can of worms that would be.
I'm glad to see more and
I'm glad to see more and more people asserting their rights. Very good.
I wonder what made the cops leave in such a hurry, though. Maybe they had done something wrong and left once they realized you were knowledgeable about your rights.
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Asking for the statute is half the battle
Most state law enforcement officers don't carry around the encyclopedia-sized statutes with them, so asking what statute you've violated is a practically guaranteed way to result in an "I don't know" answer and a request from the officer to his superiors for help. This may or may not be a good thing, depending on the situation and who their superior is.
Papers!!!!!!!
Let me see your Papers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like it's f'ing Germany, 1942.
Way to go.
Call me next time.
I spit in dry, unconstitutional eyes and like it.
good job
I am glad it turned out ok for you.
You know I market a service that would be good for people that get harassed by the police. You can look up what this service does by going to my web site.
You don't need to look it up but if you do there is a short video that will explain how you have access to an attorney 24 hrs 7 days a week including at the time the police pull you over. watch the video and judge for yourself. www.prepaidlegal.com/hub/roben click on family plan.
This is a service that everyone needs and everyone can afford, it might be of interest to you to know that 80% of the people in most of Europe have legal protection.
On the web site you can put in your e-mail address or just send me an e-mail at ( roben@prepaidlegal.com ) and if you e-mail me your phone number I will call you and can answer questions for you.
Soon it will be as common in the United States as car insurance.
Roben
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JedNP says
"4/23/08, the day the 4th amendment died, along with the rule of law. Well, we the people will still be controlled by the laws. But police now have the authority to violate the laws in order to get what they want."
OK, if I am reading this correctly, the 4th Ammendment was neutered and redefined just yesterday. Can we get some references and points of fact with such claims. Maybe this is an overstatement.
The idea that government can break laws in order discover laws that individuals may/may not have broken is the end of the end.
I can handle individuals breaking laws now until the end of time because that is just a natural consequence of having a swinging dick. But to make it "legal" for the gov to break laws is oxymoronic and pure totalitarianism.
Here's what is going on
They made it so that even if a cop unlawfully arrests you, they can still search you and use whatever evidence against you.
Don't get me wrong, if a cop pulls someone over for something he truly thought was a violation, and finds a dead body in the back seat of a car, I feel he has every right to use that evidence to see a crime has been committed, and take action.
Here are the negative implications of this ruling. Now we all know we have good cops, and bad abusive cops. I fear that more of the abusive cops will start using this as a way to skirt around our rights and find ways to search us. They can now just arrest you for some BS that you didn't do, it ends up being an unlawful arrest.. but hey... it allowed them to search you and possibly find something that was not in clear open sight. He had no other way of determining you had violated any law, until he knowingly, unlawfully arrested you so he could initiate a search.
Oops, my bad... he will say in the end... I thought I had the authority to arrest you for that. You're free to go, but by the way, that contraband you had in your trunk, you're being charged for that.
Had the judges came down with the ruling and worded it like.. "Even if a stop turns out to have been unlawful, and arrest unlawful, if there is evidence in plain sight in the vehicle to suggest a crime had been committed, it is not in violateion of the persons 4th amendment rights and the evidence can be used against them."
But no... they didn't read it like that. They just said if an arrest, or traffic car turns out to be illegal, they can basically still search your car. If the arrest can be unlawful, then cannot the same evidence they found to give reason to search your car also be a lie? Can it not now be more easily planted or fabricated in some way? That is my fear. Anyone knows that if something can be seen in your vehicle to a cop who comes to your window, they can potentially now have probable cause once they see it.. if it's something that warrants probable cause. But that's different than physically searching your vehicle because they stopped you for a reason that was unlawful.
Read Virginia v. Moore
Real recent supreme court case - - they held a guy who was arrested in Virginia for no license and then searched post -arrest (which found crack cocaine) was constitutionally convicted of the drug charge (the search was legal that is, and use of the drugs found to convict okay) despite the fact that under Virginia law, driving with no license is not an arrestable offense (apparently citation only). This guy was arrested anyway so the arrest was illegal under Virginia law, but the search incident to the arrest was somehow constitutional.
In other words, so long as the police have probable cause to believe a crime is commited (no matter how petty or trivial) they can still use any evidence found after an illegal arrest against you in court. And this practice does not offend the constitution - according to our robed overlords.
BTW - the decision was 9-0 with Justice Ginsberg concurring. Go figure that one out.
A little more to that
I read and analyzed that ruling today. Scalia wrote it, so you know it's a bad ruling.
The circumstances windy relates above are about accurate, except that he doesn't mention some parts after the fact.
The VA circuit court found him guilty.
The VA appeals court panel tossed the conviction.
The VA appeals court en banc reversed and reinstated the conviction.
The VA Supreme Court reversed and tossed the conviction again.
The US Supreme Court reversed and reinstated the conviction.
Here's where they got it wrong:
Scalia tries to paint the absolutely absurd argument that if they upheld the VA SC ruling that they would "be incorporating state arrest rules into the Fourth Amendment". He has it completely backwards. The Fourth Amendment is what has to be incorporated into the state arrest rules (per the Fourteenth Amendment). That is what the VA SC did. Furthermore, he tries to claim that an arrest that is unlawful under state law for violating the arrestee's rights can still be federally constitutional and not violate the Fourth Amendment. This too, is bogus. States can certainly expand the enumeration of a federal right at the state level, but the Ninth and Fourteenth Amendments require that the state level rights be the same as the federal rights at a minimum or else the state rights are unconstitutional. This is so common as to be settled law. The last part that was wrong was Scalia's assertion that the search incident to the unlawful arrest was legal because the arrest was from probable cause, state rules be damned. This is the bad part of this, because those arrest rules were put in place to satisfy Fourth Amendment requirements (similar to Miranda Warnings, Terry stop rules, etc.). Scalia basiaclly just threw those rules out the window and now the cops can stop anyone for anything, calim probable cause (disturbing the peace, loitering, disorderly conduct, vagrancy, careless driving, and resisting an officer are the vague easy ones they use!), and then not only unlawfully arrest and detain you but search and seize your property.
So yes, the Fourth Amendment died yesterday, at the hands of a bunch of black-robed fools who don't understand common sense and don't understand how federalism works.
Welcome to the 51st State of the Union, named "Police".
I practiced Civil Disobedience Today and won !
Go, candance! You did the right thing.
I'm just waiting for everyone to join me when I refuse to get the Real ID.
Margie
peace and justice for the wild things ~ freedom for all
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I'm Impressed
Knowledge is strength!
Ignorant (uneducated) people are easy to control because they don't have an argument as\for their protection.
This somewhat reminds me of a friend of mine who drives a tractor trailer and the police or the weigh station thugs wanted to check inside of his tractor, he said, "go get a warrant, cause if your going to waste my time, I'll waste yours"! No, he didn't check his tractor, laugh, good info.
What they do is go through all of your personal belongings and throw 'em about and of course leave you to clean up the mess. You know, clothes, paperwork, ect.
Like one driver put it, "this is my house, I live in it, and no, you cannot come in and mess it up".
You didn't...
You didn't practice "civil disobedience" at all.
You exercised your rights under the U.S. Constitution, that's all.
Civil disobedience is when you break the law (hence the term disobedience) in protest to government actions. You didn't break the law.
Well done either way though. You should always exercise your rights... even if you have nothing to hide.