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Tried to debate an Obama supporter tonight

I'm at a level of utter frustration right now after attempting to debate an Obama supporter here in Illinois tonight. I cannot possibly describe the sheer ignorance of this woman in regards to politics and at the end of our exchange I kindly asked her to please not vote. It was the nicest most subtle way I could tell her. How many others have had these ultra frustrating experiences trying to dissect the actual real issues with people who are just not willing to listen. This woman went as far as to say that Saddam and Al Qaeda were most definitely the same group of individuals. Followed by the idea that I should pay for her college education through taxes because it will eventually help someone else. I'm stunned. Thanks for listening.

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I find if you reason them into a corner

they will bring out the big guns and start telling you how brainwashed you are and say they would never lay into a diatribe like you do and start calling you some bad names-all while you are simply trying to educate and have not gotten into the anger at all.

If I thought paying for your college education would benefit me

...then I wouldn't the government to get involved, I'd just pay for your education.

Ask her if she's willing to pay for your college education, since it'll come back and help her in the end.

Explain Obama using the terms that they understand. Such as:






I would avoid a logical argument. They are basically idiots.

"first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property" -Thomas Jefferson

government of the people, by the people, for the people

Alternative Approach...

Modern society by-and-large has been masterfully conditioned to compete and battle... Therefore when you approach someone and tell them why they are wrong, uninformed or mislead, they will generally resist, and when "shown the light" by way of a sound, irrefutable argument, they will usually throw away reason and just disagree for the sake of disagreement... My suggestion is to find the "chink" in their armor by carefully analyzing and observing their views... When the "chink" is discovered, don't make it an overt attack, but a precise, and delicate strike. I've managed to help many people in and around my life to see the truth regarding our current state of affairs, and unlike some folks, I think it is important for those of us who are thinking relatively clearly to play a proactive role in the awakening of humanity. The movement has begun, and will not stop, but the spreading of truth is an important part of that process. I notice, on forums, chats and in conversation, a big issue with so-called "Paulites" lies in their frustration with the ignorance and gullibility of their opposition. Too often, those feelings manifest in a negative way, and lead to resistance on the part of those in need of the truth. Remember, patience is a virtue... And you get more bees with honey...

Don't forget to mention that

Don't forget to mention that he wants to tax us (that's you and me, not corporations) and give it to poor people in other countries. That usually doesn't go over too well.

"Basically I'm in the idea business — whether it's a musical idea or a spoken idea ... If you wind up with a political system that wants to put idea men out of business, then you have worry on your hands."

-- Frank Zappa

the ship is sinking....

Only help those that are willing to listen, some people are simply beyond saving.

I get frustrated too. Sometimes you feel like you are talking to a wall. One thing I've come to conclude is that for many, politics is a religion. They will believe whatever is necessary to support their religion, no matter how absurd. You bascially just have to do what you did: just walk away. Nothing can be done for these people until their whole world is interrupted by something like the crash of the economy, and even then they will probably conjure up all sorts of myths to support their religion still.

*sigh*...its frustrating, but at least there are a lot of people who are willing to listen. Those are the people that need to be targeted.

"Truth is treason in the empire of lies." - Ron Paul

move on

Whenever I run into someone set in her ways, I simply move on. Why get frustrated? You cannot teach a 2nd grader high school math.

Anyone see

"Idiocracy"? Its prophecy is fast becoming reality.


LOL... That's awesome. I'm gonna use that one, thanks!

Ooops! This was supposed to be a reply to airborne's Obama quote, not a new post. My computer skills are as weak as Obama's explanation of what "change" is... lol

"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN


Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

The thing that's the hardest...

for people to wrap their little brains around is that if you work hard & make a lot of money, or if you're born into a lot of money, or if a lot of money falls out of the sky into your lap, that it's not your duty/obligation to give over half of it to the government so they can redistribute it for you. This is where I usually lock horns with people. Also, all the people who want the "tax cuts" taken from the rich don't realize that the really rich don't even have their money in this country. If the downtrodden masses knew how convoluted the tax code is they would be up in arms. The poor slobs have no idea of their bondage. Sometime I wish I was stupid & uninformed, because when you are, it can be so sad.

We need to...


Talking to brain-washed, dumbed-down idiots isn't working!


Typical Obama Supporter.

Obama Supporter: "I support Obama because he offers change."

(what kind of change?)

Obama Supporter: (Silence, and look of confusion.)

Join PyraBang the peoples search engine.

"A black man" for president

THAT is the change they are talking about and won't say straight out.

I just love...

I just love the Obama quote, "...this is the greatest country in the world, and together, we change it!"...or something like that....what a dumbass.

Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry

The sad truth is....

that the I.Q. of most Americans has dropped off the charts faster than Ricky Martin's latest single. You can't use logic to communicate with the illogical, so it'll be up to us (the relative minority who didn't drink the kool-aid) to save their asses along with ours. It's like when you tell a child something they don't want to hear, and they close their eyes, cover their ears, and start going..."BLAH BLAH BLAH OPRAH BLAH BLAH HOPE BLAH CHANGE BLAH OPRAH BLAH DR PHIL BLAH KELLY CLARKSON BLAH AMERICAN IDOL BLAH FREE HEALTH CARE BLAH BLAH !!"

This is what we get from government meddling in our lives..... morons... and the government wants even MORE control??? We've got to take our country back from the freeloaders and looters. Go Ron Paul!

"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN


Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

Know thy

Know thy demographic.

Obviously, logic doesn't appeal to this demographic (sheeple). So, appeal to them with a specific emotion. I've actually been pretty successful with this method.


What specific approach do you take, i.e. to what emotion do you appeal?
Anger, fear, humor? I'm definately interested in your method if it works!

"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN


Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

You all are....

You all are....still thinking about "party"...stating that Dems are morons...Well, Repubs are morons too...it's the American way, folks..just like George Carlin says in his YouTube rant..."they want us just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, but dumb enough to not know what's really going on"...or words-to-that-effect.
Yes, there are legions of people out there who hang on Oprah's every word..and read the Enquirer and People magazine and have to watch GMA each morning...and do exactly what they're told and always stay between the lines, never thinking for themselves.
2 examples: I work with a woman at the office...she's married with 2 kids, but comes across as a man-hater. She's voting for Hitlery based on sex! "we need a woman in the White House!", she protests..
I have a pal who hates all 3 candidates, but wont vote for RP because he "doesn't have a snowball's chance". I try to explain that this isnt American Idol and is no popularity contest..but he is unphased.
There is a video posted here on DailyPaul that I watch yesterday that was taken at a meetup group in the NW, and it was all about how to "sell Ron Paul". Some very, very good pointers on creating understanding and believers.
Recently awakened, always vigilant.
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!

Silence isn't always golden....sometimes it's yellow.

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry

Have a link?

I would love to see the video, I am ripping my hair out over this daily.

"The wicked flee when no man pursueth, but the righteous are as bold as a lion."

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." - Cicero, www.freedomshift.blogspot.com

Obama Supporters Are DUH

About 6 months ago I was in Big Lots..a lady started up a chat with me..it lead to me asking her if she had heard of Ron Paul..She said no..I had my chance..I took it..i started telling her about him..how he follows the Constitution..her reply..he must not believe in God if he follows mans laws..I was shocked to say the least...I said no he believes in God....Back to what I was saying...I told her God gave us 2 major gifts when he invented us..He gave us life..and freedom..I told her the Constitution talked about our freedoms and Ron Paul was for it and stuck to it and..'Oh..he worships government then right'?
By now I am wondering if this lady needs a cat scan...
About 10 more minutes of that and her comments..I just said..well..who are you going to vote for? She said she had a brother and a cousin and an uncle in Iraq....My turn to interrupt and tell her Ron Paul wants to bring the troops home....It didn't faze her.
She then starts telling me why shes voting for that Obomanation ...Are you ready...you all are just going to LOVE this reason.
She said because Oprah told her too!!!!!!..Thats right...Oprah..then she went on to say..God would never let Oprah say anything that wasn't true..
By this point I'm looking for the men in white jackets and big butterfly nets to swoop out and get her.About 5 minutes after that..she told me..Oprah sent out a news letter telling people they must vote for Obama because of his true beliefs...hes change and..I tuned her out...and walked away.

Freedom is another way to God...A corrupt government is a straight way to hell.

I believe in Hope & Change..I Hope the government will Change
Spindale-Rutherford County-North Carolina


is a New Ager which is the religion of the One World Religion.

Yep... Youtube "church of

Yep... Youtube "church of Oprah" I don't have time to hunt for the link now. If she believes in Oprah she may not believe in god.

"It is like a finger pointing away to the moon, don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory." - Bruce Lee

"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it."

"Blame Oprah, I voted for Ron Paul"

Still waiting for that bumper sticker. lol

I've been in many an argument with Obama supporters online. I keep asking them to explain his math. I want to know how taking the tax cuts from the rich is going to solve all of our problems and produce trillions and trillions of dollars. They just end up calling me names. It's all they can do because I'm pretty sure most of his supporters don't even know what a trillion is.

This problem is a result of the failure of our educational system. If people could do the math themselves, they would see that none of the popular candidates have any plan to solve the real problems we are facing.


Our "educational" system is far from a failure... If you consider the true purpose of its existence... It seems to be working quite well.... Go... Back... To... Sleep.......



1 trillion = 57 states

If his supporters aren't proficient at math, it is because their messiah is no Einstein either. I would love it if someone revived Khan's "Obama has visited 57 states" thread. In it, oldmom, myself, and others try to guess the names of the extra "states" he visited. Also, my friends' girlfriend is a Doprah-ite and I can barely converse with her.

What I've Found

Most everyone else believes the TV and their minds are closed.

The entertainment matrix reinforced by the dumbing down of the past two generations by the Department of education and the constant police state has left people without an open mind either in utter despair or resolute in bowing to authority.

I've talked to an Obama supporter whose son was in Iraq. After I quoted Jefferson about how our nation should act and explaining where Obama's support (his money) came from and letting him know I supported removing our country from the Iraq War he told me he "always knew our next president would be black". This is a white, upper middle class man telling me he knew what ethnicity person was going to be the next president, back in March.

I was watching the polls and showed the democratic poll watcher pictures of our delegate candidates. She (an overweight white lesbian) said to me "What's wrong with these pictures?". I had no idea. She said "No diversity".

This is the mindset of the baby boomers, and probably the Gen X, Gen Y generation. They're focused on the battle between two groups, black and white, democrat and republican, homosexual and heterosexual etc. and they'll do whatever the TV says their group should be doing.

I have had good results with people that I personally know who don't know who to vote for.

think: it's not illegal yet

It has also occurred to me that the false left-right paradigm is also like a religion--that of the cult of the commodified consumer culture. These minions only want a pre-digested choice, preferably in the form of soundbyte-rhetoric. They have no desire to do the work of discerning for themselves the truth. Very rarely do they investigate whatsoever the records of the candidates for which they vote or even attempt a critical analysis of the issues that affect their lives so directly. And the paradigm in which they dwell is a self-reinforcing model--they tend to believe that the predominance of either the "Democratic" or "Republican" religions establishes their own normality and justifies their own beliefs and actions.

These political religions are the penultimate in circular reasoning and non-critical thinking.

"If we want to live in a free society, we need to break free from these artificial limitations on free debate and start asking serious questions once again." -Ron Paul


"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy