The Strategy is set. Its Time to Brainstorm on Tactics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXCgz57wLjU&feature=bz302
“ What really counts is our ideas. Our ideas are more powerful than any of the Shenanigans they pull. That shouldn’t discourage us in any way because our momentum is actually building. The long term campaign is really, really just getting started… we are not going to be able to beat them under their own rules, because they don’t follow them…
…Our ideas are so powerful….the time has come for them. They can’t really quiet us at all. The only thing I’m asking for is that everybody do it in a dignified manner… not to be looking for confrontation.
Our ideas are powerful enough that we don’t need to be resorting to any wild tactics.”
--- Ron Paul
( May 19, 2008 )
My vote is for
Childhood education. Let's get out some children activity books that details the history of the Federal Reserve, the history of the military in the United States, the history of the medical industry, the history of the U.S. and the worldwide economy, history of the U.S. empire, history of the eugenics program against us.
I know it sounds like not so much fun topics, but if we do a few find-a-word games, coloring pages, crossword puzzles, etc.
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
Those are important, but
Don't forget they need to be educated on the Constitution, too! And some of the mis-information (i.e. lies) that are in current textbooks needs to be challenged and fixed. I've watched some of historian David Barton's shows, and there's a good amount of 'revisionist history' that's happening in our schools.
Bingo!
And as the young learn the truth, their elders shall follow.
Start slipping this link into every online forum and conversation you have about education.
************
"Basically I'm in the idea business — whether it's a musical idea or a spoken idea ... If you wind up with a political system that wants to put idea men out of business, then you have worry on your hands."
-- Frank Zappa
What he said!
http://www.tragedyandhope.com
http://www.im2moro.com
Hey Farmer
Ron Paul did address the issue of the war on terror. He said, "Terror is a tactic. You can't have a war against a tactic"
Because there is no target and no tangible objective. The pure logic of this MUST be realized by the brainwashed and the ignorant. There is no gain to be had by compromising or kow-towing to the enemies of freedom
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
Additionally
There is nothing wrong with the strength of our arguments. The problem is that the national media outlets refuse to address the issues that have been laid out very plainly and bluntly by Dr. Paul.
We don't need a 'more convincing argument' than the truth. The truth IS. Period. If we tell any more or less we stoop to their level, and Dr. Paul knows this
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
What Dr. Paul is saying is
What Dr. Paul is saying is that nineteen guys from a general region of the world with box cutters in their hands is a completely different scenario than being attacked militarily by another country's government. Therefor, the tactics used to defend such an aggression must be altered to suit. If we had gone after Al Queda with special forces and trained killers without waging all out war on whole countries, we would not only been much more successful, but we would still receive the support and the empathy that the rest of the world was so willing to give us right after 9/11. We would be viewed as heroes rather than villains.
************
"Basically I'm in the idea business — whether it's a musical idea or a spoken idea ... If you wind up with a political system that wants to put idea men out of business, then you have worry on your hands."
-- Frank Zappa
What he said!
http://www.tragedyandhope.com
http://www.im2moro.com
"What Dr. Paul is saying is
"What Dr. Paul is saying is that nineteen guys from a general region of the world with box cutters in their hands is a completely different scenario than being attacked militarily by another country's government."
Yep. If you really believe that story. But Dr. Paul does, so I can respect that, I suppose.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
sorry...I got carried away there
I was so happy to see someone making some sense, that I got carried away.
Truth: The problem is not being attacked militarily by another country's government.
Not Truth: The problem is nineteen guys with box cutters. (And this is *not* what Ron Paul is saying.)
Truth: The problem is somewhere in between.
I was just very happy to see the idea of having the *appropriate* response, which is not "nothing" and also not an "undeclared war." Now, if we can start to focus on the real problem(s) and offer truthful and effective strategies to address them, then we can start to convert many more people to the right conclusions. Sharpen the rhetoric!
bravo vince
Your post is in the right direction. A very good direction. There are other things we could do as well. We need to point these things out, and not just hold up two fingers and say "peace man" and "there is *no* problem." If we continue to do so, we will continue to be dismissed as a bunch of brain dead pot heads. And stupid arguments like Michael Medved's "of course we don't need a declaration of war, because most of our wars have been undeclared wars" will continue to prevail.
keep up the "good" work
I outlined clearly what is wrong with the strength of the arguments. They are basically weak arguments which are easy, at least for the moment, for the majority of Americans to ignore, and they will continue to do so.
I know this, because I spend a significant amount of time trying to convince people one on one. There are some people who experience significant benefit (for the time being) from the current system of exploitation, and are committed to keeping it in place. I don't think we'll ever convince many of them. There are many more people who experience some benefits, but in principle should change their point of view. Simply because Ron Paul's message and point of view are correct is also not adequate to convince most of them. The accusations of "isolationism," "anarchy," "extremism," "lunacy," etc. are still very effective. Indeed this is in no small part due to the majority's addiction to media and its bias, but I see little hope of changing those things, especially the latter---there is too much corporatist interest at stake.
You can hear people who have much more influence nationally make equally weak arguments against individual liberty and the constitution every day, and they do it very effectively because inertia is on their side.
I have not suggested straying outside the truth. Anyway, good luck with that keeping your head in the sand.
P.S. Arguing over the terminology "war on terror" is totally beside the point. Maybe you wish to deny that the 9-11 attacks took place, but I have visited NYC before and after. There were big building there before and now they are gone. Just FYI.
P.P.S.
I haven't the slightest idea what you mean about compromising etc.
Did I ever mention compromise? Unless you think that to discuss issues with your opponents and consider their point of view and its merits is compromise. Of course that is just nonsense, which as I've said, is a big problem for the Ron Paul movement---though not so much for Ron Paul himself.
war on terror
I apologize for disagreeing with the general stream on this site, but I think that neither Ron Paul nor the revolution---or the movement, or whatever you want to call it---have adequately addressed the issue of the war on terror. Ron Paul, of course, has done much better than most, but it is still his weakest position. His two most solid points are basically that we can't afford it, and it is unconstitutional. These are very strong points, I agree, but not if you reject them apriori, which we must accept as the basic state of things.
Any successful strategy is going to have to take account of how to sway significant numbers of people to recognize and accept the two basic points above (or some other ones). No offense, but unless you come up with solid evidence concerning some "off the wall" conspiracy theory, the effect will be minimal. Ignoring Islamic terrorism, or denying it, are also not going to make a dent. Ron Paul has mentioned himself that it is a problem, but has not made a very strong case for taking a different path in dealing with it. Here is a possible third serious point to make: We (as a nation) are dealing with Islamic terrorism in a very stupid way, and there are much more promising alternatives. We could (and I think must) make a solid reasoned argument for this point of view. It's still going to be a hard fight, but it must be pursued, and I see little to nothing on Ron Paul sites like this one (or say Rockwell) that are in the ball park.
Let me briefly mention why the other two points are having trouble.
Financial---This is a kind of doomsday prediction (of which people are naturally skeptical) and until people can really feel the results, they are inclined to ignore it. There are many voices that say the debt is no problem and the federal reserve is in control, etc., and until we go through a certifiable financial disaster, it's going to be hard to convince the masses.
Unconstitutionality---Here we're fighting history. The constitution has been ignored, at least in the way we are trying to pitch it (limiting the federal government, preserving individual liberty, etc.) for well over 100 years. Why should we start paying attention to it now? I would say that even Ron Paul hurts himself on this one at times by being so free in his conversation with the powers he is willing to attribute to the states.
Let me make one more suggestion: A good strategy is to build local community based on the common values of individual liberty---and responsibility. When we create counties, and then states which are circumspect in abusing individual liberty and sustain a modicum of responsible behavior, so that such restraint can exist, then we will be in a position to really convince people to pay attention to the constitution---or put in a better way, they will be in a position to be convinced.
Of course, all efforts at the national level are to be applauded. One would expect that a senator (Sabrin) could make a real difference. But in order to have a more substantial effect, we must raise the level of discussion and engage those who oppose our point of view (or those who blindly follow them) with more convincing arguments.
Years of Propaganda to Fight
I have to agree with you farmer. Local groups must be started and filtered back up through the state. There are many in some states who are really suffering and those individuals must be included and reached (no matter what the nationality). Re-education is necessary to counter the years of propaganda that most Americans have been exposed to (including the higher levels of education. Revisionist history, suppressed sciences and improper accounting principles are being taught in the universities as well)
Another point, many of the police forces are being trained to look for "constitutionalists" as homegrown terrorist. They are being taught that the founding fathers are "terrorists" because that wanted to kill the king of England. They are being trained to look for books and such because constitutionalists are violent and promote violence in society.
Local "meet-ups" for Ron Paul aren't enough. Establishing action plans to help each other, to get the majority of kids out of the public schools, to get drugs (legal AND illegal) off our streets, getting rid of flouride in the water system and many other changes that will drastically alter our "comfortable" lifestyle are needed. At the same time we need to educate ourselves with the legal system from the local level on up and work within the framework of the legal system as much as possible. One does not have to mention the constitution to affect change, look at the penal codes already in place!!!
PyraBang for Liberty
I think we need a strategy
or tactic to make Daily Paul about Ron Paul and how to get his message out.
Pronto. Peace
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
read my post
in the forum ""write-ins will not be counted...."
there is an excellent tactic that came out of florida.
peace
Persistence
Keep writing and emailing ETC
"What does conservatism today stand for? It stands for war. It stands for power. It stands for spying, jailing without trial, torture, counterfeiting without limit, and lying from morning to night."
Lew Rockwell
Here's something we need to
discuss. People who are for the war and following bush like a puppy think this is the end times we need someone who understands what and why they think that because it looks like he is taking them all straight to hell. They need to realize he is not the man they think he is. Any thoughts on this and how to get them to rethink their position? Peace
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
This might help
I know what you mean, this thinking is prevalent and I could probably go on and on about it. I may do that someday, but for now here's some scripture verses that might help:
Rom 13:12 KJVA
(12) The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
and
Eph 5:11 KJVA
(11) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
as well as:
Rev 13:17 KJVA
(17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Then ask them if they can 'buy or sell' or get a job or open a bank account, etc. without a SSN? Is the SSN the 'mark of the beast' ? It may not be, but it's a step in that direction and once you become accustomed to that, the next step (i.e. National ID or Real ID?) is one more step down the path they want to lead you on. Ask them to research who is really required to have an SSN?
And since the book of Revelation is a big part of this 'end time' scenario -- show them this:
Rev 14:9-10 KJVA
(9) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
(10) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
lastly, there's this verse:
Mat 24:24 KJVA
(24) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Lastly, there's the whole issue of those in 'authority' trying to use Romans 13 to convince Christians they have to 'obey authority' -- and there's a good article by Chuck Baldwin about that topic.
And, here's a link of an interview with Chuck Baldwin interviewing Dr. Greg Dixon.
Hope that helps! (Sorry if I got long-winded, I wanted to be as thorough as I could.)
CiaW
www.eft-sw.com
Quiltingsando
You bring up a good point about the way people have been brainwashed, and it is valid.
If there is one thing that I could point to that Bush did, which was a MASTERFUL job(and probably was somebody else's idea), was to frame the whole 9/11 and war debate in this context, "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists".
Of course, the word "us" meant him and his neocon buddies, and "terrorists" meant anybody that opposed their takeover and domination.
This actually was brilliant, because it was simple. The people are simple.
It was like "cowboys and indians", or "good guy and bad buy". Very easy for even the intellectually challenged to be able to grasp. And that was the brilliance of it, and it worked.
It took a "new Pearl Harbor type event"(9/11) to get people into accepting this frame of mind, and it's going to take the unwinding of that "new Pearl Harbor type event" to break the spell.
The 9/11 truthers have their hooks into the meat of this, and they are taking alot of flak for it, but they are RIGHT.
There WILL be some detail that these Neocons forgot to cover, and it will be found. And when the US public finds out that Bush lied about this entire
thing, there will be blood in the streets. Neocon blood.
Support the truthers. They are not being marginalized and demonized for no reason. They are getting the flak because they are over the target, and this is a target that the Neocons CANNOT afford to get hit on.
It must be approached to people very carefully and in a very small dose, or else it will be spit out like a baby spits out too much pablum. Pick out a very small item that is supportable, which will plant the seed of doubt in the person, and let them think about it. Don't push it. Then wait for them to come back to you with a question, and then point them to some good documentation which will plant more seeds of doubt about the official story. Then they will run with the ball themselves.
plesae study hypnosis - free online course
What they did is mass hypnosis, plain and simple except that they were hiding and it is a complex web of deceit.
There is a place online to take a 14 hour self-study course in hypnosis. If you have the time, I STRONGLY encourage you to take it. http://www.hypnosis.edu/
If you "read between the lines" as you study, you will discover the television is perhaps the most sinister device ever unleashed on the American people, and also a few tricks for waking people up. Most importantly perhaps, you will stop being angry at people who were victimized. The best things in human nature, like the ability to have faith or the desire to work for the greater good, have been twisted into irresponsible blind faith and the glorification of suffering for no better reason than to ease the guilt of knowing others suffer more - and the sham charity of socialism.
If you reach to their love of good and redirect that toward REAL good (which is is linked to TRUTH...) you can awaken them. If you beat them up for being a sheep, you will put them on the defensive.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
How true
It must be approached to people very carefully and in a very small dose, or else it will be spit out like a baby spits out too much pablum. Pick out a very small item that is supportable, which will plant the seed of doubt in the person, and let them think about it. Don't push it. Then wait for them to come back to you with a question, and then point them to some good documentation which will plant more seeds of doubt about the official story. Then they will run with the ball themselves.
I think that Washington, You're Fired does a brilliant job of that. It uncovers so many lies in a very systematic way that by the end of the movie all it has to ask is "if the government will lie about all of these things, what else are they lying about?"... I think at that point they cut to a shot of ground zero.
************
"Basically I'm in the idea business — whether it's a musical idea or a spoken idea ... If you wind up with a political system that wants to put idea men out of business, then you have worry on your hands."
-- Frank Zappa
What he said!
http://www.tragedyandhope.com
http://www.im2moro.com
Excellent Observations, Mr. T
I'm going to enjoy following some of your thoughts on this subject.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48627
“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
---Charles Mackay( Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds )
LibBerte
Comment placed on your linked thread, regarding the PNAC.
If you are not with us you are against us
came out of the Bible. But Bush is NOT Jesus.
Edit:
The comment I make to people is, "Why did building 7 come down?" They usually don't even know building seven came down. I don't know if it makes them start thinking, but it sure would make me think, when it was not even on the news.
That isn't from the Bible
though in Mark 9:40 it says, "For whoever is not against us is for us." which would be the opposite.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Wow, thanks Big T
I was thinking about it last night. It's like a chain and we have to break that chain. The first link is 9-ll the second is bush "your with us or against us"
the third people who think it is the end times and think they are following bush to get to heaven (I guess). I also, think their are people who are going along with this because they think they are on the winning team and greed, oil and empire. There are also people out there who are just plain SCARED. If we can crack the 9-ll hold I think the other links would give way, because the trust would be gone. One thing I think will help is other countries coming forward and questioning 9-11. You are right we have to keep pounding over and over we need a new investigation by a third unbiased party. Something that really hit me between the eyes was a Youtube video where our prez said "That the Constitution was just a gd piece of paper". I was floored, I wish I had bookmarked it. Is that video still available that video needs to have copies made of it. That one video could break the chain. If anyone has that video we need it pronto. Peace
"My Liberty depends on You Liberty" Alex Jones
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
They don't think they are following Bush to get to heaven
What they think is that the Bible predicts all that is happening to us and therefore it is inevitable. Some Christians think you can still and should still fight it and get the people to do God's Will and the end of the age will not happen as predicted. Other Christians just think, "Praise God, it will all soon be over and things will be so much better afterwards." The later group does not want to get in the way and consequently, they unwittingly actually assist the chaos.
the "end times" issue
is a complex one, that really can't be covered in a forum setting, because it's too deep for this format.
However, basically there has been deep infiltration of the churches, which has created changes in accepted doctrines over the last 200 years.
And this is the "lever" that is being operated at this time.
Interestingly enough, if this is looked into deeply enough, it can be found that this actually DOES play into "end times" prophecies, as the "deception" which is spoken of in Biblical eschetology.
The apostate church plays "the whore" in the prophetic story, which is exactly the role it is playing now. And the "wheat" will be separated from the "chaff".
The command is given, "Come out of her, my people", which is a command from God, to his "elect".
This doesn't mean to abandon God, of course, but means to abandon the apostate churches which comprise "the whore".
It's all very interesting, and extremely relevant to current events, if it is understood..
Thanks, well
maybe someone needs to do a video that would work on this angle. How can people be Christian or any religion and go around mass killing totally innocent people? Seems to me to be a contradiction in faith and I would hope people stop and reevaluate who they are supporting. Are there any videos that show this contradiction of faith?
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
Well, they have blinders on
They don't know that "Christians" are mass killing totally innocent people. Bush sells and probably believes, that he is targeting Islam's extremists who only have one agenda, "kill the infidel." That is what the sincere "neocons" think is the best thing for America. Kill them before they kill us. March on dear troops, we are with you. There is a lot of killing in the Bible. So it is easy to get confused and mixed up, especially since God warns not to touch a hair on the heads of the Israelites and the Israelites have been infiltrated by atheists calling themselves Jewish. It is very, very hard to straighten it all out and they think Hagee has studied and has it figured out. He forgets the infiltration of the Jews.