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Libertarian Party 1972 - 2008: Rest in Peace.

It is with a heavy heart that I report the death of the Libertarian Party. It was only 36 years old — far too young to die. And while there is some dispute over whether the death was self-inflicted or murder, the death itself was tragic and sad.

Once billed as “The Party of Principle” those principles were sold down the river. On Sunday, May 25, 2008 the principles were abandoned, and the party was last seen gasping for air
before expiring.

This author watched 30 years of his life pass before his eyes — wasted. Having been a candidate and supporter of the party since 1978 what I saw ended any respect I had left for the LP.

Far Right Republican congressman Bob Barr was nominated for president and the loudmouthed, huckster, Wayne Root, an “odds maker” from Las Vegas, traded with Barr in order to become his running mate. They brought to the LP the sort of backroom deal-making once only seen in the larger, corrupt parties.

It is true that the principles did not die easily, however. On the first ballot conservative Barr was leading libertarian Dr. Mary Ruwart by just one vote. On the second ballot it was dead even. On the third vote Ruwart was in the lead. And then the “behind-the-scenes” deal of the two neocon infiltrators was announced.
http://waronyou.com/2008/05/libertarian-party-1972-2008-rest...

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I'm not a Libertarian Party

I'm not a Libertarian Party libertarian but I'm wondering, you've been fighting for 35 years, now that the threat has come to your backyard, why try to run away? This is what they want to do but (this is my opinion) why not stay and fight them? I thank you for your years of commitment but I'm just wondering, why roll over and play dead now? The thing I've noticed is that the reason why the Republican and Democratic parties are so corrupt is because a group of Neos (Liberals and Conservatives) took over and the ones in charge before didn't put up any resistance (and if they did I bet you it was meaningless). But if you put up a fight and give them a dose of their own medicine, anything can happen and you can beat them. I'd be leaning towards being a Pragmatic Libertarian if I had to choose (but when I started voting, I was an independent-leaning Democratic voter). I'm sure that there are very good Pragmatic Libertarians in the LP. I had a feeling that Barr would get the nomination (beause of the media coverage and some name recognition) but was hoping that Ruwart would get the VP nomination so that way Barr could be held more accountable to the LP.

Publicity matters when your goal is spread the message.

The only practical purpose of the LP at this stage, even at 35 years, is to promote the message of liberty and to move the nation in the direction of more liberty, and away from less liberty. If that means nominating a relatively new convert whose conversion is questionable because he is relatively well-known and most likely to get attention for the message, so be it.


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

The same things were said about LP and Ron Paul

When Republican Ron Paul was nominated by the LP as their presidential candidate back in the 80s, similar doubts were expressed about Ron Paul as are now being expressed about Bob Barr.

It could be that Barr's conversion to libertarianism is genuine. Only time will tell.

But given that Dr. Mary Ruwart supports the right of children to "choose" to engage in sex, including sex for pay, I don't see that they had much choice.

The concept of ADULT consent is a cornerstone in the foundation of libertarianism, and most people recognize that minors are not capable of this consent, and that guardians must be responsible for them. That Ruwart does not get that basic concept is a deal breaker for me.


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

"When Republican Ron Paul was

"When Republican Ron Paul was nominated by the LP as their presidential candidate back in the 80s, similar doubts were expressed about Ron Paul as are now being expressed about Bob Barr."

Oh really? Are you saying that in the 1980s, Ron Paul voted to nullify the Fourth Amendment to the Bill of Rights?

Ruwart sex issue: Red herring, irrelevant to this discussion.

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Reference link to Ruwart's position on child sex "rights"

Link: http://www.reason.com/blog/show/126164.html


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

Who cares? This would only

Who cares? This would only be potentially relevant if Ruwart was the nominee.

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Support the Constitution of the United States

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Many, or at least some,

Many, or at least some, libertarians also feel the best way to ensure the well being of children is to leave it up to the their parents. Whatever possible good might in some specific corner cases come from getting government involved, will be thoroughly outweighed by the horrors governmental involvement will inevitably bring along.

Not saying this is Mary Ruwart’s position, though.

Separate issue

That's a separate issue.

Whether a child can consent or whether it's up to the parent is one issue, and Ruwart seems to say the child should trump the parent. If the child "agrees" to have sex in the making of a pornographic film, for example, Ruwart seems to be okay with it.

Whether the state has a right to trump the parent, particularly in the case of child abuse, is a separate issue. Personally, I believe protecting rights, including protecting the rights of children to not be abused, even by their parents, is the only legitimate function of government.


"Know what you know, know what you don't know, and understand and appreciate the distinction."

Minarchism
track

And who would then protect

And who would then protect children from abuse by their anointed protectors, the state?

Unless you take the hard line, and give complete sovereignty to children, in practice the issue becomes whether parents or the state has the final say in how a child is treated. Not that there’s anything inherently wrong in taking that hard line.

Hear hear!

Hear hear!

"The casualty of partisanship is objectivity."

Yeah, they chose the WORST

Yeah, they chose the WORST year possible to finally nominate a sell-out. I'll never go back to the LP as a registered paying member now. Might as well donate to the Republican party (which isn't going to happen). From now on in every congressional and presidential race I'll just vote for Ron Paul if there isn't anyone running who will stick to their principles.

"The casualty of partisanship is objectivity."

Hell, a Britney Spears/Paris

Hell, a Britney Spears/Paris Hilton ticket would have been better than Barrf/Rot2008.

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Support the Constitution of the United States

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Not trying to break the somber mood

at the funeral, but there must be some good people left in this party. Why don't they come and join forces with Ron Paul. This is so beyond parties at this point. Dem, Rep, Lib, Con, Green, Black, Blue; they have all been taken over with the same people. We need to focus on people not parties if we are going to take our country back. Why are people saying they want the same things but they are stuck on a party? I really don't get it.

EXACTLY. It's time to get

EXACTLY. It's time to get people who will OBEY THE CONSTITUTION.

predictions about the LP are premature

I've seen this prediction around the web and it's rather premature and sophomoric at this point. I've been skeptical of the Barr conversion since he joined the LP, but there was a point where I 'converted' back in the 70s, so I'm willing to see what happens with his campaign - prove it to me Bob. I was hoping for a Ruwart/Kubby ticket - oh well. Delegate deals have been happening at the LP conventions for as long as I've been watching - nothing new there.

At Least We Are Getting

plenty of examples on how to avoid getting neo-conned.

Damn, they're sure a persistent bunch. They're like daggum cockroaches. We just gotta just keep squashing 'em.

No joke.

Neo-Cons will sneak in and double knot your shoe laces without you even knowing it. Then by the time you realize what's happening you are already falling on your face.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klSek88t54w
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We can all say what needs to be done, but who here led by example today?

Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/

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Okay With Me

Barr's wrecking the LP? Fine, those punks just get in the way if they actually try to be serious. We need a revolution, not another meaningless third party. R.I.P., indeed.

_____________________________
"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

Well, it makes it easier for

Well, it makes it easier for the REAL Ron Paul Third Party to succeed if they swear dung all over their own faces and alienate everyone. We need to distill the non-GOP votes in the Revolution down to one Third Party.

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We need to become the NEW 2nd Party

because the GOP is imploding. Our attempt to put the 'conservative' back in the Republican Party with the Ron Paul campaign only served to cause a bigger divide between us and the Neo-Cons. Funny thing about them - it seems like most Americans hate them, yet most politicians want to be just like them. Hmmm... These are interesting times...

The LP is not dead yet.

The LP just shifted from a "purist" strategy to a "pragmatic" strategy. The LP's radical libertarian rhetoric has fell on deaf ears for over 35 years. The LP has no choice but to try something different like Bob Barr pragmatism. I disagree with pragmatism on Ayn Rand Objectivist philosophic grounds. But pragmatism is the only way to fix problems that pragmatism created.

This is a good article related to my point:
http://www.nolanchart.com/article3897.html

oh Orwell1984

I forgot to put you on the Barrrrrffff troll list until you reminded me.

and shame on you for using the Great George Orwell's name and book! Just change your name to Barr2008

wroooooooooooong Just as

wroooooooooooong

Just as creating more liquidity to fix the problems that were created by too much liquidity to begin with doesn't work, neither is the advocation of pragmatism to fix the ill effects of pragmatism going to work.

A crack head starts having withdrawal. What's the answer to help the person......more crack???? That MUST be what you are smoking to think that Barr, who has yet to answer any of the questions the Revolution sent him, who has picked a VP that has openly stated that Ron Paul is weak on defense and weak on the war on terror, and who donated to that traitor Lieberman, will be anything but one big fat stake in the heart of the LP.

I have to agree with you,

I have to agree with you, and with the original post --- with the Barr/Root ticket, The Libertarian Party has shot itself in the foot at least, if not slashed its wrists. Both of those "gentlemen" STILL support the so-called War on Drugs and foreign interventionism, have NOTHING to say about our fiat currency system and the Federal Reserve, and in general sound less like supporters of liberty than establishment plants bent on destroying the Libertarian Party from the inside --- which task may already have been accomplished.

They might as well rename it the Leiberman Party.

to be fair

Barr didn't pick Root, the Libertarian Party did.

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we sat there and watched him

we sat there and watched him conspire with Root right on CSpan. That excuse won't fly.

R.I.P

It's ok because the new Republican Party is on the rise carried by Ron Paul and his Revolutionaries.

Join PyraBang the peoples search engine.

R.I.P. LP (1971-2008)

________________________________________________________________
"let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our freedoms & wealth are in jeoprady"
Ron Paul

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Pls donate here Ron Paul can still win
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talk about over dramatizing

Better Barr than Ruwart whose anarchist views on the protection of children is chilling. Just because he holds less to libertarian values than your typical Libertarian doesn't make him an evil person and just because he managed to be more organized and his supporters pulled out a win, doesn't mean he cheated.

For the Libertarians to ever begin winning elections they have to broaden their appeal, their voters, and start running candidates that are electable. It's all good and well to run people who have been stalwart over the years in opinions on government but it's about time they run someone who isn't socially inept. Whenever an election comes around I look up the libertarian candidates but end up getting turned off; they always give off the impression of a corrupt businessman, crazy anarchist, or that guy on the subway that stares at you while touching himself.

The truth is Barr isn't going to win, he'll be more than lucky if he get 5% of the vote. He isn't going to be changing the party, but hopefully he'll send some attention it's way. Whether he believes what he's saying or not, he's preaching libertarian ideals. By next election you'll be voting libertarian again.

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billsebe, can you explain...

what Ruwart's position is on child protection that you find 'chilling'? I'm not famliar with her policy on that, but what I do know about her I've always agreed with.

thanks in advance.

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We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
-Steppenwolf 1969

'Cause there's a monster on the loose